Another decision the FIA will pay for.

Its a software bug that can be sorted out, doesnt put any question mark over Mac whatsoever.

Do we have any idea which teams have been using this bug/feature?

As has been mentioned before we had all this speculation and accusation last time teams were not allowed TC/LC.
Is there not a way of 100% determining live wether a team is using it in any electronic function whatsoever. Not an engineer so over to the clever people

How would we know? There are no cams showing what the drivers are doing so we can only speculate

I was laughing at this rumor in the testing thread

Oh well mclaren+microsoft make a great team

FIA should test every button sequence they have the money get some labrats out

Cheating McLaren again. What will we hear next? Lewis on steroids? (although I know that steroids would have limited benefit in F1, I wouldn't put it past them).

Somehow I dont think this is behind of LC/TC style behaviour, I'm sure teams have figured out other ways to do it also.

This sounds really, really strange. Every team has their own steering wheel, right? The ECU isn't designed for a specific steering wheel. So how the hell is it possible that pressing a sequence of buttons in Honda's wheel will magically enable a launch-control-like mode?

Maybe the Honda systems are so far out there that they're communicating in a completely wacked out way that the designers and testers at MES couldn't have possibly predicted.

It's well known any system will have bugs, though, maybe it slipped through testing in a normal way. Or maybe it just wasn't possible to test it properly due to the constraints of how limited and costly are laps in a F1 car.

I was wondering whether Trulli mentioned any teams, but on checking it seems only Ferrari, in fact, and not directly about this bug but about their traction out of slow corners.

Only as long as Lewis doesnt get the dreaded Blue Screen at startup

If that is true, McCheaters should be excluded from F1 - for ever!

Trulli mentioned LC (starts) not TC.

There was be last year, and you can see the reallity, they're in the GP's now and then.

Who as they say: Money talks!!!

Yes you're right, but the autosport article tacked on this after his quotes...

"Paddock sources have suggested that some cars do sound different under heavy acceleration, with this first being noticed at the first corner at Jerez during last week's test."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64806

so are u suggesting ferrari is still using TC?

This is but another problem with how the FIA administers the rules. Because teams don't have to explain the things they do, they can step around what the rules are trying to achieve. And such tricks cannot be found out by other teams or by the FIA, except if someone inside spies the information.

All the other teams most definately know about it know. I wonder when exactly Honda found out about the bug. McLaren would have been told immediately since every team has someone from MES in the pitbox.

Based on the competence we have seen from Honda so far it is quite probable that they just forgot to read the ECU manual.

Anyway I thought FIA approved and sealed the source code last summer.

That almost sounds like you are saying there is a spy in every pitbox for Mclaren?

Essentially it is. The steering wheel requests Upshift/Reverse/Downshift/etc etc from the ECU in a standard way. The ECU interface is standard and FIA approved.

So it doesn't matter what the steering wheel looks like, it just has to be connected properly to the ECU.

There's someone from MES allocated to each team, it's always the same person...

The top of the steering wheel is the same for every team and has been designed by MES. Honda's steering wheel (like all the other steering wheels) is specially designed for the MES, not the other way around.

According to the FIA tender all teams have access to the ECU's source code. So any 3 Button Cheat Sequences should be blindingly obvious to any self respecting programmer.

Well it all sounds very weird. By the sound of it all the teams know about it and as karlth says they have the code, so it doesn't at the moment look like a McLaren cheat, at least.

Hopefully we'll hear from the FIA soon.

If its obvious to any good programmer how come McLaren didnt notice it ?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hobbes
If its obvious to any good programmer how come McLaren didnt notice it ? [/QUOTE

Whatever this "aggressive mode" is, someone programmed it, presumably. How does it work, with no wheel inputs, and is it illegal?

I was speculating a while ago that with data on speed, gear, rpm and a timer - all of which are available in the ECU - you can easily map the engine to increase its rpm at a certain rate in a each gear. But I understood from ATM_Andy that the FIA-approved code wouldn't allow this. Or shouldn't.

ATM_Andy seemed convinced that there was no way around this, so im kinda suprised. Following last years events, i really doubt any team would rely on this discovery much for two reasons : a) They could get banned and b) Other teams would find out and once the bug is sorted out, they would have less experience in the legal way

Well yes, me too, except...

how likely would we have thought it that not one but two teams, after the July WMSC hearing, would leave emails and drawings lying around...

It could be an undocumented feature on the MECU that only McLaren (who made it) knew of.

FIA was *crazy* to allow McLaren develop a standard unit. I always feared they would use the MECU to cheat and maybe something has been discovered.

If it's true, McLaren must be banned forever from F1.

I dont want to accuse McLaren of deliberately cheating but i really hope it doesnt mess up this year. Since theres a McLaren representative working with each team, logically that person would know whats going on and a team would be crazy to cheat with him around.

All the teams seem to know about it, they have the code. Why not read the thread properly, and wait for a bit more information, before firing off the accusations with "could be" "maybe" and "if it's true"?

In programming terms it would be highly unlikely wouldn't it that such a sequence could have accidentally found it's way into the source code? :\ which kind of suggests someone wanted it there (whoever that may be).

The only other thing I can think of is could it be a residual left over part of a program from last year when TC and LC were not banned, and it simply got missed? I wouldn't imagine a programmer starting from scratch if he could adapt a program already out there with a few tweaks here and there.

Yeah, but LC was banned...

Well maybe they had illegal LC then - Hamilton did get a few demon starts in last season

BTW - I was just theorising possible ways how it could have got in the code :\ at least I'm not pointing fingers and throwing accusations about.

too all of you who think this simply could not be done or that any programmer looking at the code could see this...

MICROSOFT i think that sums it all up.

For those of you who dont know Microsoft managed to hide code in early windows that SLOWED down Lotus notes.
It took the Lotus guys over 4 years to discover and identify this fact.
They also recently hid updates to Vista in downloads not handled by windows update that modified the vista kernel in a way contrary to the agreement they have with the US government.

It can be done.
It is done.
LC and TC do not need direct wheel input data.
Hiding things in code is very easy.

The FIA made a huge mistake entrusting the design and development of this system to anyone who was already involved in F1

1994 all over again? Remember Benettons LC and menu 13? It could be same...maybe or maybe not? I almost feel sorry for them.

Benetton.

I cannot imagine for the life of me why three buttons pushed in the correct sequence would allow the mapping of the MECU to change. I am having a hard time believing that this is true, which means it probably is.

If this is true, I agree with you.

However, if its true, then Toyota would have protested the FIA. They would not just sit there and loose tonnes at the start because they did not bother to talk to the FIA.

Maybe Trulli speaking about it is a shell over the bows of the FIA concerning this matter? IMO the FIA can be exceedingly slack in following up queries about questionable technologies which step around what the FIA was trying to achieve.

That's a good point, but I'm sure RD would never knowingly allow this to happen.

Prediction: somehow, Ferrari will get blamed for this. I can see it now, grandprix.com headline, Ferrari bribed Microsoft insider to insert code that only THEY know about. Ross Brawn heard about this and slipped the beans at Honda.

ok...was that sarcasm ?

If yes then
If not...OMG ROGUE TRADER.

%90 of the time THE BOSS KNOWS.
His staff dont have a secret agenda to cheat and discredit the team behind his back.
Make no mistake the heads of any organisation whilst not aware of all the details of an operation remain the driving force that direct people to do what they do.

Hi all, this is my first post, please excuse me if it comes off a little naive....

What exactly is the source of this information? is it confirmed or simply just a "rumour???"

The initial post provides a link to the Autosport article which is based up what Jarno Trulli said. It is therefor not a rumour. Of course Jarno might be wrong. But then ...

Thanks for that, what about the ECU mimicking TC/LC? is this a rumour?

The simplest way around this issue would be allow every team and the FIA to see every teams code in the ECU. There would be no really secret information as engine maps wouldn't correlate between two engines. If the teams have issue with something in the code they can simply show the FIA and have it checked out. The teams wouldn't like it initially in terms of spreading secrets but it not much of a step up from the ECU.

It is to me, as I have not read anything about it.

If there is a button sequence that makes it do things its not supposed to do, then that would IMO breech the contract and the FIA could sue the firm, although I don't know how much leeway there is in the contract for not fulfilling the design parameters, let alone for providing something that has secret cheat codes in it.

Because of the way the FIA operates the rules though, if a team discovered such a code in their units, they'd be under no obligation to inform the FIA IMO.

If one considers the cost of the teams setting up the engines for the ECU, the damages to the teams financially would be large IMO. Not to mention if the FIA decided it was not appropriate to start the season until all firms had properly working ECUs, then the ECU supplier would need a very good insurance policy IMO.

Yeah, that's what I figured, as there is no source for this information, I'll wait until more information is known....

We'd call it an easter egg in programmer's jargon a few yeras ago... now a back door, a hidden feature, never a bug.

Could even be a leftover from previous tests, that failed to be sanitized. But if it proves to be true MES will have a hard time explaining it.

Since the season has not started, if it was the case they should update the software and disable that function.

But it is a concern that if it was possible, what controls are there to stop teams playing with the software themselves?

I'm with karlth here, any suspect piece of code would have been noticed by the FIA immediately, otherwise they're just sheer incompetent. Even if the FIA didn't notice it, the teams would have surely spotted it before and told the FIA/McLaren, Ferrari especially, since they're the most ethical team in F1. The story isn't confirmed, maybe it's bullshit otherwise a bug is the most likely thing.