I just looked at the 8W site for the first time. It is a good site but of course far too hard for a mere dabbler like me, although when I looked at the 70s pics, I knew a bit about them (well. I was at Monaco 1970 and so I even recognised the Colin Crabbe entered Antique Automobiles March 701 of Ronnie Peterson).

But I don’t know the borderline decider - it is probably a Politoys or the Amon or something, I guess. (anyone know?). At first sight I thought it was the "lobsterclaw" Brabham BT34 and that reminded me that Carlos Reutteman dominated his first ever GP, taking pole and leading it into a puncture or something stopped him.

That got me thinking about first time out winners. Has anyone ever won their first World Championship GP? I believe Ignacio Giunti (Ferrari) won his first GP, but that it was non-championship.

If no-one has done this difficult feat, then what about the "nearlys" - Reutteman, Argentinian GP (1972?) is one, and of course Jacques Villeneuve, Australian GP 1996 is another. Who else has nearly managed to win?

Then what about teams or marques winning first time out? BAR famously didn’t last year, but I recall Wolf winning their first race around the late 1970s. I can’t think of any others though…

????


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BRG

Bagetti won his first GP, driving for Ferrari in 1961 at the French GP. He narrowly beat the Porsche of Gurney I believe.

Yes, you're right, it wasn't Giunti at all, it was Baghetti. Thanks for that.

But were there any others?

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BRG

There were no others in actual World Championship Grand Prix, except technically Farini and Alfa Romeo in Britain 1950.

Baghetti didn't just win his first World Championship GP. He actually won his first *three* F1 races! Try and beat that. (That was all he ever won, though.)

Before doing the unimaginable at Reims he also took non-championship victories at Syracuse and Naples - his first times out in an F1 car. The Naples GP was a poorly supported event, but at Syracuse he beat the likes of Surtees, Hill, Brabham, Bonnier, Moss, Salvadori, Ireland, Bandini and Gurney, leading 50 out of 56 laps.

For more on Baghetti, check the 8W archive at http://www.racer.demon.nl/8w/8w-899.html.

First-time pole winners include Andretti (although that's debatable), Reutemann and Jacques Villeneuve. Some say it's a mere technicality but Andretti's pole actually came at his second attempt since he was entered at Monza but along with Bobby Unser went USAC racing instead. He did practice though, and was faster than Jochen Rindt.

Reutemann never led his debut GP. He was swamped at the start by Stewart but ran a strong third until Ecclestone's wrong choice of (soft) tyres forced him to pit. For the race story, see http://www.racer.demon.nl/8w/8w-1199.html.

Another one to enter F1 with a bang was John Surtees. With Lotus, he finished second on his second time out, took pole in his third race and led consummately before his radiator was holed.

Emerson Fittipaldi won his third GP, Clay Regazzoni his fifth, Jacky Ickx his seventh. Ricardo Rodriguez lined up second on the grid for his debut GP. They all made a huge first impression.

And then there was Wolf, winning first time out with Scheckter. Then again, Wolf, together with Postlethwaite, was involved with Williams the season before, so it wasn't exactly a virgin effort. but that's nothing to take away from the sensation they caused in Argentina!

And here's an interesting one: thanks to his ultra-sticky Dunlop wets, Masahiro Hasemi took fastest lap in his first of two World Championship appearances, at Fuji in 1976. Together with Jacques Villeneuve, he is the only first-time fastest lapper in championship history.

Cheers,
R.D


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[This message has been edited by Racer.Demon (edited 01-28-2000).]

Muy gracias, Racer_Demon! A very full reply.

The mention of Hashemi at Fuji took me back a bit - he was in a Kojima chassis if I remember correctly, so perhaps a good first time out performance for both driver and team.

Incidentally, you mentioned that Baghetti's amazing and apparently unique first time win was at Reims. I am travelling through Reims shortly, and would like to see the old circuit. I know it was closed roads but I have never been able to find out if it was norht or south of Reims. Can anyone give me directions so I could take a peek? I believe the old grandstand is still there?

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BRG

By the look of the story in Motor Sport recently it's all pretty delapidated. When I say recently - within the last 18 months.

racer.Demon - funny you should mention the Wolf... I was just droppping a painting at the Canadian Motorsports Hall of Fame in Toronto, and to my surprise, that 1977 Wolf was one of the cars they have in their collection! Apparently it resided at the Donnington Collection for a long time, and when the CMHofF contacted Walter Wolf looking for a donation, he responded with "would you like a car?"

Needless to say they fell over themselves to get it, and Donnington were a little peeved that WW was taking it away, because it still runs, and of course they would have flogged it around Donnington the odd time...

BRG: The Reims Circuit is quite easy to find! I've been there a few years ago, and if you have the opportunity, you should go there (preferably with a very fast car ). The track is to the west of the city, if I remember correctly. Buy a good Michelin roadmap, and it should be on there. If you still can't find it, go to the tourist information in Reims town centre, and they will give you directions. The pit buildings, main grandstand and a Total scoring board are still there, though in very bad condition. But that only ads to the atmosfere!
I advise you to print a circuit map (from http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport or so), and try to find the roads on your road map. Almost everything is still there. The early version of the track went through a small town called Gueux, and there you might find an occasional roundabout on your racing line. But the later, even faster version of the track is still there, and in very good shape also (it's all public roads now). Watch out for 'gendarmes', they spoiled my fastest lap!

Maybe interesting also: in Reims is a small car museum, dedicated to a French designer, whose name I can't recall. He was most famous for some Delahaye's, I think. It's not a big museum, and the collection is not very spectacular, but if you like cars, you can spend an hour or so over there.

And don't get too drunk on Champagne!

Thanks Leo, that is very helpful.

The silhouet site that you recommend has just the map that I need. It is also a very useful site for other information - I hadn’t seen it before and I think it will prove very interesting.

When I get to the Reims grandstand, I will raise a glass of champagne in your honour and in memory of days gone by.



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BRG

Unfortunately, whilst being a damn good story (and far be it for me to dispute Racer.Demon) this account is not, strictly speaking, true.

Masahiro Hasemi did not actually set the fastest lap - that honour really belongs to Jacques Laffite.

Hasemi was undoubtedly fastest in the rain, but Laffite was the first to change to slicks toward the end when it dried out. After the race, the Ligier timekeeper, a man by the name of Michele Dubosc, was adamant that Jacques has gone quicker than Masahiro.

They referred it to the CSI, who's secretary, Yvon Leon, wrote to the race organisers. They checked their records and lo and behold - Laffite was indeed fastest.

But the FIA hasn't ever done anything about it - with them too lazy to change it, Hasemi's name still stands in the records.

So offically, despite what actually happened, he's still got it!

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Formula One Rejects
www.crosswinds.net/~f1rejects
Profiles of the WORST drivers and teams in Grand Prix history

Hmmm... my memory about Hasemi and the demon lap time was always that he was fastest in one practice session. Must look up the reports...

Unless i am very much mistaken and have completely lost my mental faculties Michele Dubsoc was a she not a he :-)

Equally topically who could have imagined back in 2000 that a British team with a British Driver (then a Williams debutant No:2) and a German Engine would secure a place in all time history by scoring wins on not just it's debut but it's first two races and secure a World Championship in its Debut and only season ?