B2, per the "Official Champ. Midget Record Book"/Watson, 10-7-62 was @ T. Haute & R. Duman won the 100 lapper, car owner Carl Forberg.
mlight9.

B2, per Official Midget Record Book, 10-7-62 was 100 lapper @ T. Haute, R. Duman the winner.
mlight9.

I should have been more specific, but I only took pictures of all of the IndyCars.




As my post stated, a handwritten note was on the photo by a Marshman family member with the information I gave.

Edit: I looked closely at the note on the photo - I see "L. H." - with the information above, I can deduce that the "L" is actually a "T". Thanks for the info. B²

Good enough for me

A start to the photos I took in the Kruse Auction complex at Auburn, IN, May, 2008. These are the IndyCars that were owned and housed in the Eddie Evans collection in Bedford, IN. Sorry for the poor quality taken in this not-well-lit building. Brian

photos: B²

Brian,

The Greg / Emmo pic is interesting, given the crash they shared later in the year at the same track.

So 'fess up.... where did you go Memorial Day weekend - Michigan or Indy?

Nigel

My loyalties were in CART and I went to Michigan. The rest of my family went to Indianapolis. I refused to sell my two seats, (we've had the same tickets since 1970), I wanted to have at least two empty seats in the place. Brian

Good answer - kept things balanced.

My abiding memories of the '96 US500 were the embarrassment of the first lap multi car crash, and the fact that at one of the stops we managed somehow to get the left and right side rear tyres swapped on Tracy's car, so that the stagger was trying to steer him in to the wall.

Gosh, those pics bring back memories Brian!!!

In 1996 I attended the Marlboro 500 (in August) so that picture of Greg and Emmo brought back some memories.
One week later I went to the brickyard fot that experience too.

As for the acution at Auburn... Sigh.
I was at Indy for a winter vacation in '99 and got connected with a number of scale model builders, the guys who made the displays of the winning cars at the museum. One of them was a good friend of me and he hooked me up with the others. My friend went back to St louis but his buddies had made a plan to do the next day in which he couldn't go along. But he urged me to join them the next day for a visit I would never forget should I go along with them. And his friends were happy to take me along once they found ot who I was.
We went to Auburn so I got to see the entire collection over there. I was permitted to sit in the Mallard and some other cars....


Brain, any idea what happened with the limestone cars? Did Duke Nalon got his wish fulfilled and did the Novi go on top of his grave by chance


Keep posting! And I hope you find something about that one entry I mailed you about....


Henri

I had no idea about Duke wanting the Novi at his grave... if it happened, one would think that the specialty press (Robin Miller?) would let us know. The limestone Vukovich Kurtis was at the auction. I believe that John Mecom bought it.

Nothing on that Penske yet. I wouldn't count on me having it, unfortunately. Brian

It was kind of a joke I guess when Duke made that remark. Should he have got that thing for a tombstone (He deserves it, that's for sure) I guess that the cemetary had to keep guard on that site all the time....


Henri

White wing on Friday,
Red wing on Saturday.


Speaking of Red Wing, Parker 'Fedorov' Johnstone.............

I was getting worried about the white wing - thanks for posting the shot with the red wing! I didn't see the finished car, so it was down to what info was fax'ed to me!

This wasn't the car I was running, but if I recall correctly there was a small problem with the rear wing (e.g. an end plate trap nut stripped out) so the universal spare (white) wing was run while the red one was fixed.

Nigel

Here is some stuff from Teddy Pilette:

http://www.janpilette.net/teddypiletteindy.html

can anyone recognize the #11 car is this an Indycar at all?

Also the #67 Machinists (as sponsor?) IAM car at Mexico is not listed anywhere

BRM P207? Doesn't look quite right but that ran as #11.

I enlarged the Mexico image a bit...

Photo should be taken in 1981.
Chuck Looper`s built IAM-Chevy is frequently listed in 81 programs as Larry Dickson`s #31 PC7(behind IAM) backup but usually as #30 or 31T. 3rd car on picture is Joe Hunt`s #89 Eagle-Chevy. Phil Krueger`s regular ride in 1981.

I went through these photos again and I've spotted two things:

The #16 Foyt car has a Foyt engine, this is the only time I have seen a Parnelli chassis with this engine.
I think the nose #3 Bigelow Orbitor is also seen in one of the Holmes Obitor pics so there must have been 2 separate Orbitor chassis at Indy 1980, both with different rollbar colors and very different rear wing settings.

Hungness explains both cases quite well: Foyt arrived to Speedway with 2 Parnelli`s, #14 Foyt/DOHC engined primary car and Cosworth engined backup 14T. When time ran out on the Foyt engine experiment, "T" quickly vanished from the Cosworth and #14 Foyt/DOHC was renumbered to #16 for "Ziggy " Snider. As month progressed, Foyt`s crew installed Cosworth engine on Ziggy`s car as well.
Sherman Armstrong had 2 Orbitors at Indianapolis in 1980. Hungness: "Unfortunately Tom Bigelow`s twin Orbitor II wasn`t ready in time to qualify and he soon vacated the cocpit in favor of the Lola he drove in 1979."

David Tennyson listed as a part-time driver for AJ Foyt team on one of Indycar Guide (94 or 95) magazine but never drove a single race for them.

Thanks for the explanation Nigel. I assumed it was something like that, but, as I said I was not kept up to date unless it was a major alteration that needed my input. The Team had much more important things to think about!

Sorry to stray off topic here; but Parker Johnstone is easily one of the brightest guys/race drivers I have met or with which I had a conversation on racing matters.

More of the Eddie Evans collection when it was being auctioned off by Kruse International in Auburn, IN May, 2008.

Anyone know any history of this March 82c which is for sale on ebay? Chassis number 82c-6. CART serial number 295. (assuming it's 1982 registered)?
David.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-MARCH-...ht_67389wt_1165

This is one of the older Wildcats, it never ran in that livery.


Two Picasa/Flickr finds:


Johncock showcar in 1979, Eagle-Ford?:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blazer8696/40...57617272184336/


some 60s Trenton stuff in there:

http://picasaweb.google.com/jamesarthur22/AntiqueRacing#

I think that most here are well aware that you can consistently find old IndyCars for sale that have been show cars that are painted up in livery they never ran.

The Gerhardt Plymouth; some years back one of the rod magazines featured a car powered by one of the Weslake Plymouths, mentioning the parts he had made to get it running.

I wonder if it is still in that rod or has it been acquired by an Indy car restorer?

History once again gets ignored. In this morning's newspaper, the Associated Press wire story about the Sao Paulo Indy Car race yesterday reports that it was Will Power's second win. This completely overlooks Powers two wins in 2007 and Long Beach in 2008 in Champ Car. Dammitall, Power has FIVE wins!!

I do not know if this complete ignoring of anything but the IRL is the fault of the AP or if they were fed that info by the IRL. I have not seen this year's IRL media guide yet, so cannot say. But if the IRL continues to absolutely ignore anything that happened in the previous 100 years, save their own events, they are doing a great disservice to history. Absolutely shameful.

I could post this on the 'blood pressure' thread too!

Tom

I feel that the fault is with AP. Power's record in Champcar is displayed on the Indycar website...
http://www.indycar.com/drivers/show/55-izo...667-will-power/
Bob Jenkins also mentioned his Champcar wins in the TV broadcast.

Tom - I think it is the from the line being fed by IndyCar (IRL). Remember, according to them last year, Scott Dixon is the all-time leader in race wins, breaking the tie he had with Sam Hornish Jr.. Also, I heard Bob Jenkins state that it was Team Penske's 36th (I believe that was the given figure) win in IndyCar competition. Why in God's name do they ignore the once glorious history of these cars and drivers from an era when it really did matter?

Guys,

You are not going to like this, but that was Power's second victory in the IRL/ICS (whatever it is called...) series.

The other three were in an entirely different series, CCWS.

A.A.A., USAC, CART, IRL, and CCWS were all different "series" and only the five CRL events of 1980 can be lumped in both the USAC and CART tallies, as odd as that would be.

It is not ignoring history, it is being historical.

You can squint your and lump them all together and use the "heritage" dodge, the Enthusiast's means of revising history to suit his own views, which is fine, just not historically accurate.

Again, not to be contrary (well, maybe...), but people seem to want to have their history both ways, they want it and the way it should be.

But, what the hell, history is certainly malleable when it comes to automobile racing, so whatever you wish to believe and you want it to be is probably what "history" is.

HDC

I hope you are right, but where would AP have gotten the statistic if not from the IRL media guide or one of the IRL press people? I did not hear Jenkins mention the Champ Car wins, but I did hear him step into the horse manure big time towards the end of the telecast. See below:



Brian, I heard that too and screamed at the television set. For crying out loud, Team Penske did not start in 2001! Everything that came before is being summarily dismissed as if it did not happen. As I said before, absolutely shameful!
Tom

I completely concurr with Don here, what is wrong with stating that it was Power's second IRL win??? Surely, he must have more than five wins if you count in other series as well.

It depends on whether you swallow the ideological manoeuvre whereby CCWS 'merged' with IRL in 2008, just as there was a good deal of soul-searching among enthusiasts whether to swallow the succession ritual between CCWS and Championship Auto Racing Teams. It's a useful bit of Pilatery from IRL management, though. Considering the great pooling of resources ended up taking in three or four Champ Car teams, only a few of their beloved venues (no Road America, Cleveland, Surfers Paradise), and ditching almost-new chassis in favour of the antiquated Dallaras, the arrangement was clearly less than equitable. But 'merger' sounds a lot more voluntary than the actual situation, in which IMS conducted a running war to debilitate and undermine a series whose glorious history they subsequently claimed as their own. 'Heritage' is not just something abused by the 'enthusiasts'...

Nonetheless, it seems a bit strange to take the wins of Mario Andretti, Al Unser and Paul Tracy, and identify them primarily in terms of the organisation that sanctioned the individual races. The drivers, the teams, even the tracks deserve better than that. It all seems a bit of an elaborate strategy to avoid having to learn anything new about how auto racing (especially in America) actually happened.

When the context clearly said second win, not second IRL win. If Bob Jenkins and if the AP had clearly stated that it was the whatever IRL win for Penske and Power, I would have no problem with it. But they did not. They said "win", pure and simple, and that ignores history. Say what you will about the IRL, AAA, CART, etc., but it is all Indy Car racing regardless of the sanctioning body. And we are not going to get silly by including minor wins in with major wins. We are talking Indy cars, by whatever sanctioning body label they have had in the past.

So yes, there is something wrong with stating that it was Power's second win.

Risil is right in what he implies about the Champ Car/IRL "merger" a couple years ago. There was no merger. The IRL absorbed what was left of Champ Car. The IRL can legitimately claim the history of the absorbed series, but as of yet they are being very low key about it. I will think better of it when they fully integrate the AAA/USAC/CART/Champ Car records into their own, much like CART/Champ Car did with the AAA/USAC history in their record books issued during the CART/Champ Car years.

Tom

Surely "Indy Cars" are cars that actually run at Indianapolis, or to rules that are at least similar to Indy 500 rules? On that basis, it was clearly Power's second win, and it is no more "ignoring history" than to say he had five wins, because that ignores the history of his wins in FFord, F3 and FRenault!

Then why did the IRL go through the process of obtaining all "intellectual" properties of ChampCar/CART? Common sense would tell me that it's reasoning would be to incorporate the history of ChampCar/CART under the IRL banner to not only bridge the gap between AAA and the current generation of AOW, but also to build a bit of historical legitamacy that the IRL could run off of - promote if you will.

Sadly I feel - and I think we all know it, the acquisition was just another means to destroy the historical record of an opposing series and preclude any other owner of any new series from laying claim to it.

It would seem to mirror the fact that Gerry Forsythe and Kevin Kalkhoven were only given $2 mill for signing non-compete agreements.

In your opinion...

Legally no.

CART used the term "IndyCar" for years after not participating at the Indy500.

First, this is not uncommon with records of other sports. Many times opposing leagues have their stats ignored. It's happened in football, it's happened in baseball...happens all the time. It's not right, but that's not my point here.

Secondly, this is WAY too much ado over anything uttered by Bob Jenkins - who has been a lackey, has been very unprofessional at times...and makes a tremendous number of mistakes.

Good point Jim. There are plenty of idiot football commentators in England who think football didn't exist before 1992. Best thing is to just ignore them.

Maybe I am out of the loop on football and other historical events that are similar but I have to say that ignoring CART stats is pretty bad.

It's also pretty stupid (expected from the IRL nonetheless).

When the two series merged the IRL should have embraced the moment and promoted the heck out of it. Part of that promotion should have entailed the rich history of CART and the IRL which collectively could have amassed to far more of a succesful marketing campaign then Gene Simmons offered.

This was a no brainer. Even if the league's intention was to bury the past, it should had realized from the onset that it would have been more prudent to celebrate it - for the benefit of the series AND the fans!

Seems too me that this component (history) has only become one more bridge burnt between opposing camps that didn't need to come down.

Have to agree with you on that, Jim! Jenkins is not the worst announcer out there, but he does make an inordinate amount of verbal gaffes. Probably stems from the fact that he apparently has no background in Indy Cars and spent too many years screaming at the top of his lungs as one of the broadcast booth paid shills for nascar. I do not find him intolerable, but there are a good number of announcers out there who could do better in the broadcast booth --and I do NOT mean Rick Benjamin!
Tom

Well there was always Chris Economaki's great announcing for F1.

Hobbs was just laughing all the way through some of those broadcasts!

Does anyone have the contact of Phil Harms, that created the wonderful CART/IRL DB from Motorsport.com ?

Phil Harms passed away some years ago.

Afraid you won't be able to contact him, unfortunately he passed away a few years ago.

Maybe because they have enough problems as is, and they do not have to deal with people who write as you did (and others) that are chasing ghost or picking nits because they will not let the past in the past.

Sadly, I've known it today R.I.P.

Cannot agree with you there. While I do believe that the IRL (Tony George at the time) absorbed Champ Car a couple years ago in order to be the only player in major open wheel racing in the States I cannot believe that IRL/George had any intention of destroying the historical records of racing in the past. What would that benefit them? Further, as custodians of the hallowed Indianapolis Motor Speedway I think that they are quite cognizant about history and have no desire to destroy it. I also believe that the absorption and integration of all prior history, i.e., AAA, USAC, CART, and Champ Car, into the 'master records' is a very low priority with IMS and the IRL at this time. Not that they will not eventually do it, it is just that right now there are bigger fish to fry and fires to stamp out. I have not seen this year's IRL Media Guide as yet, so cannot say if they have included prior history, but I tend to doubt it for the reasons that I have just mentioned. But I do expect that some year their guide will include all prior history as the CART guides did. Just a matter of time and getting around to it, I think.


A bit harsh there, Bob. Maybe I am misinterpreting your last remark, but I do think that the history of the past should be remembered and celebrated, not ignored and forgotten. After all, without a past there would be no TNF! If trying to get the past correctly remembered and stated accurately is chasing ghosts and picking nits, then I am guilty.
Tom

Bob,

Do I sense that historians are not among your favorite people? After all, we do tend to be a bit pesky about the past and -- a poor paraphase -- not keep letting the past be in the past.

Then again, historians are quite different from the nostalgists and Enthusiasts in how they approach and discuss the past.

This is somewhat like the nice people at the "RacingHistory" discussion group who made it clear that they did not like or want "real" historians meddling in their discussions.

HDC