I guess this was only a matter of time but I was thinking about the oposite to the Ultimate GP season, that being the worst GP tracks ever to host a WC round.

Tracks I would include are

Aida (a glorified Go Kart track)
Hungororing (see Aida)
Dallas (a joke)
Phoenix (see Dallas)
Las Vegas (I see a pattern)
Imola post 1994 (a shadow of its former self)
A1 ring
Jerez
New Kyalami (see Imola)

I'm sure that everyone can add to this meagre list

cheers Matt
P.S. I hope I didn't offend too many Americans but I call it how I see it. :-)

The first person to mention Detroit gets the dog sicced on him

As for additions, I'll toss in the Bugatti Circuit at Le Mans and the Zeltweg airport.

Avus... (1959 German GP).. ?

I only had to look back a few months to find my "Hall of Shame" nominee: INTERLAGOS! It's the 21st Century and the organizers still don't know how to properly surface a race track. The ability to affix the advertising signage so it doesn't nearly decapitate a driver also seems to be
beyond their grasp.

I bet Interlagos isn't as bumpy as Lakeside, I think Andy Miedecke and John Lusty would back me up on that one... I don't think they had any trouble with signage, but plenty with track surface, recently anyway. And what's wrong with Avus? Many modern tracks should be on that list, like Barcelona (1 good moment at its first race doesn't make up for the 9 years of boredom that followed) and Magny Cours except when it rains halfway through the race. The new Hockenheim probably won't be as good as the current one, but I think the crowd control should be easier. Sepang turned out to be a bit of a dud too, didn't it. But what about some older tracks? Were there any other bad ones? Was Anderstorp any good?

Avus was two long straights joined by a huge banking at one end, a hairpin at the other. Hardly a circuit with variety, or a circuit issuing a driver challenge.

I agree with you Ray that Avus is a boring circuit but...
its very difference is the one reason I would still like to see it on the calender. The circuits which are extreme in some way sometimes create great upset races. Other years they live up to their boring expectations.

The "extreme" circuits around include Monza and Hockenheim for speed, Monaco for tightness. There have also been altitude, length and heat that have been extreme factors. Getting away from the sameness of tracks could only be a good thing surely?

Ray, I'll have to disagree about the driver challenge of Avus. I think that the banking would be just the thing to separate the real from the pretender amongst today's crop!

The new Nurburgring immediately springs to mind. Eventhough on itself it isn't a total distaster, it's a disgrace to the name Nurburgring. Personally I find Hockenheim very boring too.

The problem is that in a way 90% of all tracks have something repulsive. The likes of Detroit, Dallas and Phoenix give the drivers a good challenge because perfect steermanship is required to keep the car in 1 piece, but on the other hand the total lack of overtaking space make the tracks worthless. 90% of all modern day tracks lack character. Spa is good, Monza is good, Monaco is good, the rest is crap IMO. Also the tracks look too much alike these days, all the same type of corners. When I see a trackmap of either Estoril or Catalunya, I have to look real close to see which of the 2 it is

Dennis : while the Avus banking separates the real man from the boys, the 2 long straights give the boys with many horses the advantage, which is a shame.

You half-complimented Detroit, you get a reprieve ;) (If you don't know what I'm talking about, look up the page a ways )

Dennis, that's true enough if your points awarded are more oriented to bravery than ability. Did Hans Hermann ever go back, by the way?

Sepang was always going to be rubbish, I can't believe how enthusiastic the racing press were about it, you only had to see the planned layout to see that it was going to be a go-cart track. Its got about 12 hairpins! Its just a posher version of Jerez

You beat me to it Marcel ! the Nurburgring is definitely a shadow of its former glory - not that it would be very practicle to run a race their today, given its length...

Senna would be disgusted if he saw what has been done to Tamburello.

Regards,

About the old 'Ring: apart from the long straight, passing was very difficult there. So if (im)possibility of passing is a criterion, the ring belongs in the Horror season.

mat1

In this case I could deal with though, for the pleasure of watching a good driver work his magic on such a demanding track.

Regards,

Even though tracks like the old 'ring would seemingly offer no opportunity to pass, just watching the current crop of drivers trying to come to grips with a "real" drivers track would be well worth the price of admission alone.

cheers

Matt

All these BS tracks in the Mid and Far East for me. 34,000 spectators in Turkey - thats the same as at an average Premiership game, its a disgrace. They should have got Sofoglu to do some laps on his WSS bike or something to raise some interest.

There's a lot to be said about the spectator figures - but there's nothing wrong with the track itself.
And the average Premiership game is far more boring (it's possibly the most overhyped competition in the world)

Only 34.000???

That's fewer than we get at the V8 supercar round in Perth. Or for that matter at Subiadco Oval for the football. But I guess Turkey doesn't have a large, well established motor racing fan base.

I think Avus certainly became a whisker less than boring to Hans Herrman on one occasion.

The Zeltweg Airfield circuit was rather horrid , by all accounts .

Not only for its layout, but also for its surface, which led to numerous mechanical failures on the cars in 1964.

Yes , the surface is what came to mind . Phil Hill had a big shunt and fire , but I don't know if the rough surface caused it . The one saving grace for Zeltwig was Bandini getting his only championship race win .

Yes, Red, from the photos I rememember (Shell Successes booklet?), the 1964 Zeltweg surface looked like the infield at Silverstone on a bad day. Phil Hill looked to have been lucky too. But fair play to the Styrians / Austrians who went on to build such a wonderful track as the Osterreichring. I wish I had been there in 1970!

On the other hand, I'm glad I never made it to Nivelles in Belgium - that gets my vote.

I'll probably get shot down in flames for this.

I feel that Monaco is totally inappropriate for today's cars. The track was perfect for cars of the Bugatti 35 era, witness the epic Nuvolari/Varzi race-long duel, but despite the best efforts of the ACM it has not evolved with the cars. The Monaco GP is without doubt a 'social event' and somewhere to bring your sponsors and cosset them, it is also a pretty picture on TV, it represents the 'glamorous' face of Eff One, but it is no longer a race. For many years it has been virtually impossible to overtake so the race becomes a procession after the first lap and barring technixcal failures and accidents the order on lap 2 is the finishing order unless someone comes up with a brilliantly unusual pit and fuel strategy. Admittedly the last sentence can apply to many circuits but Monaco has it in spades.

I would add the new hockenheim, barhain, magny-cours, and Indy.

Valencia.

But at least it'll disappear once Alonso retires ....

My thoughts exactly.

I'd define Monaco as a "glorious anachronism". Which is what it's always been. Caracciola's SSKL was hardly appropriate machinery in 1929, but he did rather well in it. There were complaints even in the mid-30s that the MBs and AUs were too powerful for the circuit, but that didn't stop them racing there.

Exactly, so why are we holding a race there. Same for Malaysia, Abu Dubai, Bahrain, China etc. These countires with absoutly no motor racing heritage, no famous drivers / cars / engineers etc. They have given nothing or very little to F1 over the years, but get an F1 as they have the £££. Meanwhile countires like France, with their list of F1 drivers / manufactures and teams have no race. It really gets to me when F1 goes to these type of countries.

Rant Over

China is the biggest car market in the world.
Motorsport will grow. And the middle Easth/Gulf area is the biggest luxury car market. One race is enough though.

Same about the tracks. I'd have preferred rovals like the old Monza.

I can't remember from a tele view, but Nigel Roebuck once described Nivelles as the only GP track with its own escape commitee. I seem to remember the track broke up in 73, turning it into a rallycross event.

I'm pretty sure if Jochen Rindt were still around , he'd put Clermont-Ferrand on this list .

No, it wasn't Nivelles that broke up in 1973, it was Zolder.

Nivelles was boring but IIRC fairly smooth.

Pity they didn't close Zolder after the 1973 shambles.

Then Monaco should be on also.

I wonder why virtually everyone hates the Hungaroring nowadays. When the first Grand Prix was held here in 1986, everyone (including the drivers) was praising it. It was dubbed as one of the best circuits of the era. If you don't beleive it, please check the contemporary races reports or the official FOCA review tape. Since then, the circuit has been modified and facilities were upgraded. I beleive the Hungaroring is a very challenging track. You can't notice it from the television, but most of the corners are very tricky, the trickiest being turn two perhaps. There are many elevation changes too. And the Hungaroring is not slow! The average speed nowadays is close to 200 kmh. Yes, it's difficult to overtake there, but it's difficult to overtake everywhere.

If everyone has doubts about the circuit, come and visit any of this year's races. You will be surprised!

I think that compared to the old Osterreichring, the A1-buildingsite-ring or whatever it's called now is pretty dull and much less of a spectacle. Just watched the 82 Austrian GP ... phew!

The New Zandvoort. It's completely butchered. The old track was daunting, almost hallucinatic... the new one is so bad you can forget overtaking. The polesitter wins about 90 percent of the time now.