Are you sure it was Per Viktor who drove the Amilcar? The car belonged to Henrik "Henken" Widengren, the brother of P-V. Without having consulted any starting lists, I would have said that Henken was the driver..

Sorry for interupting the main subject, but we usually flatter ourselves (rightly so!) with our correctness, so I thought I would try to contribute

So perhaps really a candidate for the "photos die lügen" thread? How about those people being positioned into the picture AFTER it was taken?

They look to be so much in the wrong place to me.




Leif, this one is also from Venables´ "racing 1500" and I suppose it´s the same scene from the rear and just a few moments later. In the caption he says, that it´s Burggaller´s Bugatti on the "extreme left" of the field, so by comparing the positions I think he is the unknown Bugatti driver.

Why do you believe it should be named only Mercedes. The name of the company was Daimler Benz. But they used the brand Mercedes- Benz for example on all their trucks as as I know until they changed to Daimler-Chrylser.

So this MB(enz) doesnt belong to the brand for the cars, as far as you can see, that we use MB also on TNF for Mercedes-Benz.

Why do you believe it should be named only Mercedes. The name of the company was Daimler Benz. But they used the brand Mercedes- Benz for example on all their trucks as as I know until they changed to Daimler-Chrylser.

So this MB(enz) doesnt belong to the brand for the cars, as far as you can see, that we use MB also om TNF for Mercedes-Benz.

Bring on the pictures



The Opel test track at Rüsselsheim? Seems odd for a Mercedes to be demonstrating there

That is a really weird picture, drivers didn't usually get that high on the banking at racing speed on AVUS, and that car is almost up to the retaining lip. Maybe this was indeed a demonstration run in '37 or later. In support of this we have that the camber looks as extreme as AVUS, there is an avus-like retaining lip, there's also a tall structure (barely hinted behind the spectators) that could indeed be the rooftop of the administration building...
It doesn't look like a brick surface, but that could be a trick of the light or the low resolution. Also, the appearance of the spectators as if they were behind some structure instead of standing atop the banking could be an illusion due to the angle of the picture. The standing area at the top was wide enough, as can be seen on the De Beaufort picture; and they could be standing a couple of meters from the edge.

Or it could be all a monumental confusion


I understand the original Opel test track still stands, abandoned. Could the picture below have been taken there? Looks steep enough.



It's from this page:
http://www.main-kinzig.de/auto/opel/100jah...00_jahre_05.htm

Holger, one times is really enough for me to understand what you mean

The name of the company is Daimler-Benz, but the brand is Mercedes-Benz (and that is what you normally do advertising for), but I think by no means a good promotion manager would have allowed the simple "BENZ" to be shown that prominent without the "Mercedes" (or the Daimler) in front of it six years after the fusion of the two companies.

prettyface, it still exists. I did a walk round two years ago. But I do not remember, that the banking was that steep. Also it is hard to make conclusions by the environment today as over the years a forest has grown ON the racetrack!

Okay, if you didn't understand m, now I understand you...

My impression was, there would be another "Daimler" or "Mercedes"be arround on the other side of the roof, (a simple advertising gag of that time).

On the other hand, what makes you wonder, that brand managers forgot to change that. A simple example. I made the whole communication for a German car brand, owned by an US-company, for a big, big, big football event in france, some years ago. Do you believe we fixed all design guide-lines. So why should MB do that in the late 20s? To change a Corporate Design took years and needs a lot of money, and it's therefore, why I have no problems to accept that they didn't change, if there was no money arround. (BTW: It's not that I won't agree with your conclusion, a good brand manager should change that at that prominent entrance).

I fully agree what has been said before.
(1) This is definitively the streamlined MvB SSKL
(2) This is not the AVUS in 1932 (or 1933, where the car also ran)
(3) This car is not driven at racing speed, you had to stay in the lower half of the banking, when rotation presses the car too high, the driver came really in trouble, and additionally the banking exit to the straight then had a smaller radius which allowed less speed then.

Mmmhh did this part of the track exist in 1932 or 1933. Wasn't Avus closed in 1936 to built up that then new brick wall?

I'm inclined to agree with you, actually. It struck me as odd when I posted it - P-V didn't normally race in Voiturettes and an Amilcar seemed unlikely. But I didn't have any source other than Sheldon to check at the time.

I've now had a chance to look at Venables and I think the car I initially identified as a Bugatti is Macher's twin-engined DKW which apparently smoked heavily throughout the race: if you look carefully, you can just make out the number 11 on it.

Any idea how I should answer this?

Maybe by quoting this thread?

Or maybe I should despatch our newcomer to be overawed by this effort?

Well, I thought about that too (and if you take a look at the track it could well be possible), but the last (more or less) important race on the Opel-Rennbahn was held in 1929, in 1932 the track was completely obsolete, and the track was finally closed in 1949 when Opel did not renew the lease for the areal.

Here's an interesting essay about the Opel-Rennbahn - but only in German:
www.main-spitze.de/region/sonderbeilage/jubilaeum_ms/daily_pics/0210_MSjubi49.pdf

Holger, that's why I wrote not...
The banking was first used in 1937.

Wow, thanks Ray for the BB links...spent some time pouring over the posts and he has a great collection. Glad to see this forum is open to including the wonderful world of slot cars.

Okay and yes and sorry for missunderstanding you.

Thanks for the pic and article; never seen them before.




Sounds like a sad thing to see, but glad that it still exists. Took any pictures?

No, sorry, it was a quite spontaneous idea when I was driving in the area.

Furthermore a few years ago one of the German oldtimer magazines had an article about the GP Opel with a number of shots taken between the trees on this lost track. I bought it but it is somewhere deep below in the stock in my cellar

A really great picture! Just look and you´ll find lots of interesting details.

Lovely! Looks like the first six in the Voiturette race returning from a lap of honour.

Now excuse me while I just hop into the Miller as no-one's looking .....

Going one year backwards. The 1933 main start. (Sorry for the bad picture quality)
27 is Borzacchini (Alfa Romeo) , 29 L. Hartmann (Bugatti)
26 Nuvolari (Alfa Romeo), 32 Varzi (Bugatti), 31 "Williams (Bugatti)
34 Siena (Alfa Romeo), 33 Czaikovski (Bugatti)
21 von Brauchitsch (Mercedes-Benz)

(Those who own Sheldon, Volume 3, go to page 91 and change the positions of Varzi - Nuvolari in the grid!)

Wanna take a look at it from the back of the grid? The start of the voiturettes:

1933. I never realized, that the track was divided in two parts by gras and trees?

And wouldn´t have been the Auto Unions there the Alfa Streamliner looked as if from another planet. Has anybody a better picture of the car?

The '34 Avus picture is fantastic! Thank You!!

Nice car. But I prefer the first entry of Auto Union. A construction for the future and not for a movie.

Whow. What a big thing!

thank you, Leif.

mille grazie

Thanks very much, for all of these wonderful pictures!

Wow, a Messerschmitt...

Yes, an open one. Let's call it a roadster.

TG 500

Not every TG 500 was a roadster-Messerschmitt?

I never said this...

It IS a Tg 500, the four-wheel high performance variant:

500 cc engine of 20 hp, good enough to power the 560 kg to reportedly around 150 kmph on the Avus track. The crossover between motorbike, Lambretta and car was certainly the ultimate "driving machine" according to Neander´s philosophy and obviously great fun to drive.

But NO Messerschmitt!!!

The Messerschmitt company ran into financial problems already in 1956 so the factory at Regensburg became independent with Fritz Fend (the inventor of the original Kabinenroller and himself in the cockpit here at the Avus in 1962) in command. The FMR company (Fahrzeug- und Maschinen GmbH Regensburg) was founded in 1957 and continued the production of the former Messerschmitt models.

The "Tiger" was intended as the four wheel sports variant and came into production in 1958, the roadster variant in 1959. I think FMR lost a legal dispute with another company on the rights of the word "Tiger" which caused them to use the abbreviaton "Tg" instead. Production ended in 1961 while the other models were built until 1964.

The production rate of the "Tg 500" was well below 1000, the price was around 3,700 DM, about the same as for a Beetle at that time. I think today you have to pay a lot more for one...

.... I know.

Wanna see more unusual racing on the Avus? In 1962 a 24-h-motorscooter race was held on April, 28/29), I even think there was a similar event in 1961 but found no evidence in my archive.

Strange to see the VESPA scooters driving the banking and there even was some slipstream driving on the long Avus straights! From 118 starters there were 28 Vespas, 25 of them finished, the winning team was Heinz Husel, Augsburg / Hans Mueller, Koenigsbrunn.

They couldn't possibly use all the track, did they? Dare I ask what the fastest laptime was?

Academic, to say the least!

Actually, it occurred to me that this was the greatest example ever of the misuse of a banked circuit...