A new book due to come out early 2003 about Alfa Romeo TZs seems to contain questionable claims.

The book has been writen by somebody linked to classic cars business, which is already a sufficient reason to raise doubts. That's called "interest conflict" or something like that.

There are lots of fake Alfa TZs around, many built by an Italian called Giordanengo who has been to Court trial for selling fake Alfa 33s.

While any input about known fake TZs is welcome, the point I want to raise is the claim that the US built ASARDO 1500, a 1959 artisanal car using an Alfa engine, could be somehow a TZ prototype. I don't see any link between the ASARDO and the Alfa TZ, nor do other people having researched the matter, when sollicited to do so by the book's author.

Yet, it seems that 7 pages of the new book deal with the ASARDO as TZ prototype, as it's still presented by the same people who have an ASARDO for sale:

1959, prototype TZ1, 1600cc, FIA papers





So guys, who can help with the ASARDO history and any link with the Alfa factory?

Asardo history is explained in Mike Lawrence's "A-Z of sports cars 1946-1990" and it was featured in Classic and Sportscars Discoveries a while ago. If you type Asardo in Google you'll find someone in Canada sells a road test compilation of it. IIRC only one Asardo was built in 1959, originally painted red. It spent some time, maybe even up to 20 years in Japan, then was brought back to USA a few years ago. I will look for more details when I come home if someone doesn't post it before.
Asardo was a private effort and I very much doubt it had any connection to TZ (except using AR mechanics), althougs some stylistic influence to Tz or some AR show cars of '60's can be discussed. I really like that car anyway...

I see no conection between the Asardo and the TZs either...

O.k. here it is: American Special Automotive Research and Design Organisation (ASARDO) of North Bergen, New Jersey showed its first and only model, 1500 AR-S, at 1959 New York Motor Show. Car had an Alfa Romeo twin cam tuned to1485cc, developing 130 HP. It had a four speed gearbox, probably AR made too, Giulietta independent front suspension, tubular spaceframe and glassfibre body with gullwing doors. 135 mph/215 kmh was stated, as well as 0-60 mph time of 6.4 s. Price tag was healthy $5875 and no financial backing was found after the NY show. Designer of car was Helmut Schlosser and he sold car to SCCA racer Charlie Kolb who stuck a small-block Buick V8 in it. In this form car was raced (no details I know, except it was entered at Sebring at least once) and tested by Sports Car graphic in 1965, when ir reached 60 mph in 4.8 s, in second gear only! V8 was still in it when it was brought back to USA from Japan, where it was for ten years. It is featured in C&SC, March 1999, page 18, by our TNF member, Mick Walsh.

No connection with TZ is mentioned anywhere in sources I have. No connection seems beleivable or apparent to me, although I consider ASARDO one of most beautiful specials ever.

The Asardo Alfa motor was sitting at Alfa Ricambi in Los Angeles for many years, after having been romoved from a Giulietta spider. I don't remember who bought it.

The chassis and other components , including the body were greatly modified when the Buick got put ino the car; enough so that it could really be considered a second car.

not too long ago the car was with bruce trenery at fantasy junction in emeryville calif.....don't know if or who it was sold to...perhaps an e-mail to them would give you a more recent version of the tale...when i saw it i thought it was pretty butt-ugly...but then again there was a t-33 stradale nearby so it never really had a chance....[i squoze into the alfa and was at once convinced that it was the incarnation of the ultimate gt..]

Thank you very much for your replies, which tie perfecly with what I've got as documentation on the subject.

The main common feature between the ASARDO and teh TZ is both having multi-tubular frame, but a good look to the ASARDO's one show that you can't find any deep similitude in the way it's built:
Tha ASARDO has a superstructure looking like a roll cage, which is completely different from the TZ structure (BTW The first TZ prototype was a spider, later fitted with a hardtop...).

Also,both front and rear of the TZ chassis have distinctive feature not to be found on the ASARDO: the large section tube across the dashboard on the front, and the pressed steel support of the rear shocks have no correspondent.

TZ frame




Asardo frame



If one thinks that, while the TZ proto was under test, the ASARDO had seen its Alfa mechanics removed for a Buick V8 by its first owner, any claim of direct paternity seems , er, ridiculous.

Even the capacity increase of the Alfa engine tuned by ASARDO is no clue, since the TZ was first intended as a 1300, only later upgraded with the Giulia engine.

Hi Patrick,


best wishes from Aken to Liege, you helped me some weeks ago with informations about the Alfa Romeo Tipo 163.

I have recently become aware of the Asardo, as it is offered for sale in Belgium. The seller is not afraid of offering the car as a TZ1 prototype!

By the help of a well known friend I could study some contemporary literature about this interesting car. The most important source is the Carl Ludvigsen article from Sports Cars Illustrated from Oct 1959.

This article explains in detail the chassis the same way you do. No question remains open.

The engine was from 1300cc Giulietta, Helmut Schlosser bought it and had to promise, that he would not race against the Alfas. So he tuned the engine up to 1500cc, to start in another class with the car.
The original engine isn't fitted anymore. To offer it as a TZ, it has a 1600cc engine now.
The silver paint of the car doesn't look bad, originally the Asardo was red.

The seller offers it as a TZ, so you can imagine the price-level.
On the other hand the seller also makes an investment in influencing the TZ-book, you have mentioned. He tries convert his Asardo to a TZ by that.
I think it will pay very well.
I don't know how to warn people, but the future-buyer will be tricked.

At last I want to mention, that it's criminal when you sell a fake-car and when you are aware of what you do.
What's your opinion about that?


Ciao Carlo

Well, I'm not judge nor lawyier, but from what I have heard, the Giordanengo I quoted in my opening post has been tried in Italy after having sold to an American buyer a Tipo 33 Stradale made from some original Autodelta parts (engine, transmission) in a reconstruction of the typical H-chassis and a copy body. It seems that he just forgot to tell the buyer...

I had been most surprised, as probably were many other enthustiast, when I saw in a Classic and Sports Cars some years ago a 2-pages report about Giordanengo's workshop. Brand new Tipo 33 bodies almost piled up, in every form: "Periscopica", Daytona, Stradale...

C&SC may have wanted to warn potential buyers?

It would be nice to find out what seller wants for it now. Bruce Trenery asked $65.000 for it just three years ago, without any TZ connections stated back then, of course...

It should now be the triple, while the price actually paid might have been well below what you (and C&SC) quote. In the meanwhile, the Buick engine has been replaced with an Alfa 1600, so mods to the chassis may have been necessary.

How many plumbing tubes are you willing to bend and weld for $150,000?

Hi dmj,

your question can be answered very quick.
The seller demands 200 000 Euros for the Asardo - not a bad profit to my estimation!

@ Patrick,
I have also read the Gioadanengo article in C&S - I can only shake my head about his work and his terrible mixture of original and recreated parts.
He gives himself very naive in his statements, but that doesn't help him infront of the judge.

Ciao Carlo

The Asardo is nothing more than a fairly well engineered Alfa based tube-chassis special, later modified to a Buick tube-chassis special, and now with an Alfa back in it. The car has no racing history, and, in my opinion, not particularly attractive. I would put it's value at no more than $30,000-$40,000!

A person I know here in Los Angeles (whom I can not name) bought a REAL TZ1 needing some work for less than half of that, about 2 years ago.

He won't tell me exactly how much, but I know for certain it was under $150,000. I can't see them having doubled in price in 2 years.

You can still find REAL round-tail SZs needing work for under $50,000.

The same person who has this TZ1 is the guy who wants an SZ long-tail. Quite frankly I want to make a small profit if I can find one for him, but only 29 were made. It MUST be a real car, but condition is not all that important. There must be a known history supporting the fact that it is real and not a fake.

I am not a dealer/broker but if I can find cars someone wants and make a small finder's fee, I am not adverse to doing it.

A TZ2, of course, is nearly 1 million dollars...

Stu

Was the ASARDO formerly owned by a gentleman named Paul Carignan in Rhode Island?

I have no idea of the history of owners of the Asardo. All I know for certain is that the original Alfa motor was found in a Giulietta spider about 12 years ago, and wound up at Alfa Ricambi.

Now when this thread raised up I do hope that new owner of Asardo - already a TNF member - will be happy to provide us with more details about it.

I think this is the ASARDO, picture was sent to me in the mid-80's IIRC.

Looks like the Asardo to me JB...but I had no idea where it was before I heard rumors it was in Florida, about 10 years ago...

Stu

I first saw the Asardo when it was racing at Lime Rock, CT. Then the first Car and Driver article about it appeared. I found the car to be quite beautiful and way ahead of its time. It looked MUCH better in the original red than in the silver you see here. I lived near North Bergen, NJ at the time, and one day I set out to find the Asardo by cruising the streets of North Bergen, and lo, I came upon a house with an open garage door, and THERE IT WAS.

I stopped and had the pleasure of speaking to Helmut Schlosser himself, and we chatted for a few minutes about the car.

That garage looked exactly like the garage in which the car with the license NC-884 is pictured, and I suspect that picture is of the car in a pre-red-paint stage, or perhaps the red paint had been removed in preparation for another paint job. I believe that is a NJ license plate.

Hello members,

New pictures of the Asardo popped up on the alfa romeo bulletin board recently. It's in Spain now.
I will not post the pictures here because I did not take them.

Ciao, Olaf