Jean Todt has suggested that F1 should adopt the system which us used by some of the other major motorsports like NASCAR, MotoGP and WRC.



I am in favour of this idea, as well as helping to identify who each driver is i think it adds almost more of a "myth" (I can't think of a better word!) to said driver, for example whenever i see the number #46 you'll know which legend i thinking of, and i always associate Rossi with that number, same goes for Lorenzo's #99 but i like the fact that whoever is the champ gets to chose whether he keeps his number or has the #1 for the season like Jorge has this year, plus i think larger numbers should be on the cars as they pretty hard to spot with the current size.

So, agree? disagree? is it case of F1 bowing to the casual "when will they crash?" fan or does it hold some potential?

I like the way the numbers are done, but I tend to like traditions.

I've never had any issues identifying drivers.

I have to say i don't either as i tend to use the drivers helmets which is a pretty easy way to spot whose who, but i'd still like larger numbers, similar to MotoGP, but on the side of the engine covers perhaps, althou i don't think the teams would wear that due to sponsors and the like.

Jean Todt has the right idea, but numbers for each driver is too NASCAR.

F1's tradition is to have teams sticking with certain numbers:

Tyrrell - 3, 4
Williams - 5, 6
McLaren/Brabham - 7, 8
Lotus - 11, 12
Ferrari - 27, 28

This was abandoned for the 1996 season for reasons which have never been very clear, but F1 should definitely return to this. Who wouldn't want to see the number 27 Ferrari again?

"Too NASCAR" ? wtf is that meant to mean ?

I don't really think it matters how numbers are assigned FWIW

I agree with incast, the numbers should be assigned to teams rather than just drivers.

For 2011 I'd have:

RBR - 1,2
Mercedes - 3,4
Williams - 5,6
McLaren - 7,8
Renault - 9,10 (no change there)
Lotus - 11,12
Force India - 14,15 (no change)
Toro Rosso - 19,20
Sauber - 29,30
Ferrari - 27,28
Virgin - 25,26
Hispania - 21,22

I'd also make the teams have to show the numbers on the rear wing, larger on the nose (and not on the wing like FI do) and maybe also include the drivers flag somewhere on the rear wing endplate.

Agree.Most F1-fans is fan of a team,not so much the drivers.

I think you might have got that wrong.

I like the current numbering system better. I've always felt that keeping the same numbers is a bit "amateurish".

I can never see the car number anyway, on the cars. I suppose it could help in results tables sometimes.

But if drivers always get a fresh unused number, they'll be into 3 figures in a few years and that won't be so good.

Todt's proposal would see larger numbers than the current ones.


I daresay that when a driver leaves the sport, his number is retired for a few years before being re-issued.

I would say that historically, numbers are associated with teams in F1, not drivers. I would love Ferrari to be 27 & 28, McLaren 11 & 12 and so on. Drivers come and go, teams(I mean top teams) usually stay longer...

If it's such a problem Jean, let the cars have individual liveries.

So who gets number 69?

That wasn't the tradition. Team numbers were assigned by finishing position in the WCC at some point, I forget when. The WDC champion and his teammate then swapped with whoever was number 1 and 2. They then got whatever numbers the WDC champion had along with his teammate. The current system has been in effect since 1996. Before that teams just kept the numbers they had until they won an WDC.

I think each year we should get to vote a driver to be number 666 .

The cars have numbers on them? Really?

They need to increase the minimum size.

First of all the numbers in F1 were always given to cars. Not the drivers. So no. Besides, there's an obvious difference between NASCAR and F1 cars, which is the size. How big should a number be and where do you want to put them to "see who is driving the car, from a long distance and the number of the car". Obviously you can paint such a huge thing on a NASCAR which is basically a tank (and runs in circles on relatively small stadiums anyway) but not quite easily on a slim and sculptured F1 car (which also races through the hills and valleys and trees on twisty roads) so you won't be able to see the numbers "from a long distance" unless the car is stationary and that long distance is not that long. The only portion of the car that could possibly fit such a number would be the underside but I suspect that this won't really be practical.

Anyway, if you aren't able to recognize that since that the car coming from the distance is red and it has to be a Ferrari and since the dude in it has a greenish helmet so it must be Massa then you're not really interested in this sport and having to check a list will only confuse and bore you. I won't even comment on some ridiculous situations after some years in which a team has car numbers 7, 29 and probably 51 for a reserve driver.

The driver who has Durex as personal sponsor?

I really fail to see the point in this. If it's unclear to identify a certain driver, it's usually because he's too far away from the camera. How is a big number going to change that? Yeah what Ruf says.

What about those who are at the circuit? surely a reasonably sized number on the rear wing or engine cover or where ever would help the folks at the track to spot who it is, i know whos who by the helmets but even then in certain cases its not that easy, buemi and bourdais where pretty difficult to tell apart in 2009 when at the circuit, im not saying its a must change but i think its an aspect that could make our lives a bit easier.

No. It's even worse for those in the grandstands. The cars fly so fast that you really don't have the time to discern anything but the colors. In fact the TV viewers might be able to actually read some numbers on the cars, if the camera focuses on it long enough and has a proper zoom, but who cares; the TV transmission has captions anyway. They even those fancy graphics that tell you the distance to the cars ahead and behind.

Numbers are associated with team franchises in NASCAR too. Though they can be traded and swapped between teams if a driver wants to keep a number.

In a way I think is a little disrespectful to win a championship and not wear the #1. (In NASCAR there is a team that wears #1.)

Before '72 or '73 F1 numbers were assigned to teams based on the time the entered the race, so it could be that the car number they have one week is not the same as the next. Also under this system the Italian GP never had odd numbers...they were 2, 4, 6, 8, etc

1974 was the first season of that system, based on the finishing order of 1973. Hence Ronnie Peterson being the only driver to race with no.1 who wasn't the reigning champion since the system was introduced*. But that's how the system worked.

I believe they changed it because they were ending up with huge gaps in the entry list when many teams went bust in the early 90s. Previously they filled the gaps every few years, such as 1984 or 1989, by moving some teams around. That's why Arrows were 29&30, then 17&18, then 9&10.

I'd like either that system or the current one. The current system makes a lot of sense. The older one gave the team numbers some identity. Having said that, even in NASCAR, the numbers belong to the entrants (teams) not the drivers.

Most important: the reigning champion should always have the no.1.

*Not counting John Watson who subbed for Niki Lauda in one race in 1985, but it was Niki's car.

Most of the time I use the helmets, but sometimes it is diffult to see the helmet or the two drivers have a similar colour, so then I use the roll bar camera colour - red for the first temam car and yellow for the second team car.

I've never had much of a trouble focusing in on the cars when there other than grandstand T at monaco where you sit right close to the track and it is literally a bit of a blur but at other circuits like silverstone and jerez you have plenty of time to see who its is and i think if there was a larger number on the car it wouldn't be a problem to read, like i say thou its not really a issue for me just something little that could be changed, i don't expect the system to be changed thou, teams wouldn't wanna risk losing sponsor space for the sake of a number.

EDIT: typo.

I think that's reserved for Schumi...



I would've thought Listerine would've been more appropriate...

How can driver-bound numbers make it easier to identify them?

Rather make them a bit more visible. Anyone at a GP grandstand or at home in front of the TV can easily attain a list of drivers and their respective numbers. And a fan will definitely not need that list.

Try a grandstand at a middle of the main straight! They are pretty close to the track and reading something, anything, on a car running 300+ km/h in front of you is really a feat.

And that will not change if drivers get to pick their own numbers

Possible idea to solve that: why don't they introduce a speed limit on the main straights?

I propose 68 and 69 go to Virgin

On a serious note, IMO the best way to determine what driver is in what car is to have a completely different livery. So allow teams to have different sponsors/liveries for each car...

Whose bike is that?

The number would eventually become synonymous with that driver. thats the idea anyway

I don't think the whole livery should be different, maybe have a section that's different like in motogp? maybe the rear wing or the space between the front wheel and sidepod.

That's Alice's bike. Alice? Alice? Who the fark is Alice?

So who's going to take 46 when Rossi finally leaves?

Of course!

The only situation when I find car numbers useful is when you see a car in Parc Fermee, with no driver in it, and you get to know aaah, that's Red Bull #1, that's Vettel's car.

Even better. Mandatory photoshooting pitstops each lap! With pitbabes too!

Part of me says aye, provided the liveries were highly similar (example being with tobacco liveries, when there was the purple chevron Marlboro once or twice, McLaren I think). So Alonso gets a Santander based white and red Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, and Massa gets a "Ferrari logo" based red and white Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro. If B&H Jordan were still here, I would say one gets Buzzing Hornets, and one gets Bitten Heroes... One Virgin gets Virgin Atlantic focus, one gets Virgin Pacific (one blue and red or blue and black, the other red and blue or red and white or red and black). Man, I could make a game of this

However, I would not like to see a NASCAR/Indy/V8 esque vastly different livery for each car. They should remain similar in spirit, but different enough to differentiate.


Edit: Didn't Sauber used to run minor differences in their Red Bull days? One car had red mirrors, one had yellow? Forgive me if I am wrong, I think I remember at least the C21 bearing that detail.

It will likely be retired, at least for a few years. When Gretzky left the Edmonton Oilers, they retired the number 99 jersey. When he retired, the league took his number out of rotation as a sign of respect; no player, regardless of team, could carry the 99. When Rossi retires, FIM will probably do the same to the 46.

Well if it depends on larger numbers it's never going to get off the ground, that space is worth m o n e y.

But if you want to easily pick out who is who, then from any distance the easiest way is for the whole livery to be different.

Having a rear wing (assuming its the endplates) or part of the sidepod isn't going to help until the car is right in front of you. If the livery is different you will be able to tell from some distance...

Sounds good to me

Also we would have them (the pitbabes, not the drivers!) play strippoker.

I'll get on the phone to Max [Mosley]. I'm sure he can get what we need to make this happen

Edit: Sure Kimi can hook us up too

I think I'd be going dizzy with 24 different liveries (and probably almost as many colours) on track.

Two cars with the same livery works perfectly. No reason to change that.

It might all fall apart as soon as we introduce vodka to the pitstops though. (FIA drive safely campaign...)

I don't think anyone is going to want it!

Don't get me wrong, im not trying to beat the idea into you, clearly its not something your in support of and i can totally see why and to be honest im just trying to put the numbers idea side of the argument forward, i wouldn't be fussed if the idea was or wasn't put into effect.

Change the rear wing!!

I think most teams also have different hi-vis colours (yellow, orange) on the cameras (nose, rollhoop) but unless you know what to look for then it's easy to miss...

Question is, will they allow time for an ice cream?

I agree - I'm happy with how it is and don't really find it that hard to pick out who is who because I'm a diehard.

But if the FIA/Todt is concerned that the casual viewer is finding it too hard to pick out who the drivers are, then IMO the easiest way to rectify that is to tie the driver to the livery and not a number like NASCAR because there isn't as much available space for numbers on an F1 car like on a NASCAR...

If you want to identify drivers more easily just make all the camera pods coloured not just the t-cam one. Also allow a wider selection of colours to make it better contrast with the cars livery.

Would it be possible to make teams use say 10-15% of the cars liveried surface area for driver identification? This could be big numbers or a coloured section or stripe or even different coloured wings depending on the team and how they wanted to use it to and still keep sponsors happy (and not waste prime space with numbers if they don't want to).