Surely this must have happened before? Can anyone remember a feature that first appeared on, say, a minardi or somesuch backmarker only for it to start sprouting on a mclaren (for example)?

Surely through the years there must have worked some imaginative engineers at backmarker teams that have come up with clever solutions? Obviously they will get snapped up by the bigger teams once their talent becomes apparent (nice rhyme to self, ) just as drivers do, I suppose. But hey, even Rory Byrne must have started somewhere, right?

Anywho, I must admit none comes to mind right now, so maybe this topic will become moot pretty soon. Nevertheless, here we go.

x-wings adn hight noses ont he tyrell ended up everywhere!

If they are truly innovative designs then they wont be backmarker teams

DDD was a super aguri invention IIRC?

Laytonhouse by Newey?

What was on the Leytonhouse that was clever? Not challenging you, genuinely interested.

The raised nose as introduced by Tyrrell in 1990 perhaps?

Tyrrell wasn't considered a top team at that time anymore.


Henri

i have a tyrrell ford 25 poster on my wall, with the extra wings on

arrows tried a extra wing on the front of the car

1. Newey gto fired. Real estate player Akagi was caught. big stories.
2. Every mechanical components are rearranged for the sake of better aero.
3. Introduction of technology like CRP gear casing, partly, layouts.
4. EBD
5. Stiff car that hate pitch movements and so on.
and so on. actually a lot?


***
iPHONE auto correction sucks... sorry

Though Ferrari pioneered it in Malaysia 2001 (apparently for just one lap(!) during Free Practise), later that year Prost was the first team to permanently use the double flap on the front wing (on medium and high downforce tracks, at least) that became so ubiquitous a few years later.

Minardi first to introduce titanium gearbox casing.

I seem to remember Minardi were first to intodroduce the slot in the rear wing endplates but i can't find any proof.

Neat.

questions?

Nah, I'm good thank you.

Guess Renault would have been considered a backmarker when it ran a turbo in 1977

Otherwise I can only think of the tyrell X-wing in 1998

Not quite a back marker team but Sauber invented the twin keel design which dominated F1 within a couple of years.

Really? A number teams tried it out but I don't remember anyone having much on track success with a twin keel. I don't believe Ferrari ever ran it and they dominated the era when other teams were trying twin keels.

I think he means dominant in that most of the grid used it at some point.

GOOD TOPIC. THO.

Cooper - mid/rear engine location*

*Yes, I know Auto-Union had the same in the 30s.

Which team was guinea pig for infrared tire heaters ? Or did I mix up something ?

Stewart were the first team to run a carbon fibre gearbox.

Tyrrell introduced aero shrouds over the wishbones, FIA canned them as miniature wings so they came back as aero profiled wishbones which the whole grid then adopted.

As mentioned Tyrrell also did X-wings and raised noses, they also experimented with 3 spoke alloys and running front tyres on the rear at monza neither of which worked (3 spokes failed at interlagos and were shelved)

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rvreekum/ty07g.html

Not really an innovation but weren't sauber the first to raise cockpit sides, which then became part of the regs

Minardi M195 seemed to be the first car to have that sort of style front wing that was prominent during the 2000s before 2009. the middle part of the wing is dropped down a little bit and the supports are widened at the bottom

also, i noticed that the M195B had that mini rear wing on the rear wing. similar to what force india and Virgin had this season

mid wings also seemed to be around in the 90's and then disappeared for a while only popping up at high downforce tracks like Monaco, then all of a sudden come 2004/2005 every car had them. Mclaren had their weird mid wing-come-shark fin back in 1995, but i dont think you could call them backmarkers

In 1993 at the European GP at Donington (I think) Minardi introduced an additional element to the rear wing that circumvented the height restriction imposed that year. All the teams copied it for Monaco (2 races later).

I think they simply adopted the 1996 regulation a year early following the accident suffered by Karl Wendlinger driving for them in Monaco 1994.

IIRC the Arrows A23 was the first car sporting a zero keel front setup arrangement.

You always see guys from the top teams walking down the grid to see all the cars up close for this very reason; there is innovation throughout the grid.

I think the M195 was actually one of the first F1 racers designed by Aldo Costa, you could see some talent there ;)

brabham were a mid field ish team when they invented refueling i think?
wha about ground effect?
fan car?
were they saw as front runners at that time?

once the world knew of the value of the DDD, Ross Brawn said the concept itself is an old one, and that Brawn borrowed the idea from earlier years.

Does anyone know which car/season he is referring to?

Lotus were front runners in 1977 when they came up with the ground effect.

Brabham were also front runners when they used the fan car In Sweden 1978.

Brabham were still front runners when they introduced re-fueling mid race in 1982.

BRM came up with the orginal "Wing Car"/Ground-Effect concept in 1969 (I think), but infighting etc meant that the car never got past a wind-tunnel model. Shame really - because that could have rescued the company.

I always had the impression that literally everyone had been doing it for quite a few years prior to 2009. The perception of Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull and the others was just that it was no longer permissable. Brawn, Williams and Toyota thought it was.

Minardi were the first to use Fernando's 6 tenths!

... ok, I'll grab my coat...

awesome find, thanks!

interesting, so more of a superior ability to interpret technical rules.....

I think it was rather an ex-Super Aguri engineer who worked for Brawn.

If I recall, Honda was the first team to develop the "rabbit ears" on the end of the nosecone in 2008, only to have McLaren and BMW Sauber copy them later on. I could be wrong, though.

Tightly packed rear, which is still Newey's trademark. Not sure if it can be called a innovation tho.

Agreed, but that truly ugly car was.
Have to agree with the Renault turbo as the thread candidate.

its almost as though we are looking at the current Red Bull's - from the rear of the car.

What about the shark fin connected to the rear wing? Was it Torro Rosso or another team?

waiting for someone to bring that up, it was red bull

Ferrari, 1972...



Not sure if it was connected, though.

a similar invention from Arrows back in 2001
i actually loved it, but it was obviously dangerous for the driver

The Arrowswing looks more like a Brabham from 1969.