As published by AMuS today;

It's as close as we can get to an Error ranking.

Ranking by spins, offs and crash. Shows number of crashes.
(least to most)

1. Nico Hülkenberg 5
2. Jenson Button 3
2. Barrichello 4
4. Kubica 2
4. Kovalainen 3
6. Di Grassi 3
7. Trulli 3
8. Glock 6
9. Rosberg 3
10. Alonso 3
10. Webber 3
12. Sutil 6
13.Vettel 4
14.Buemi 6
15.Liuzzi 9
16.Senna 9
17.Alguersuari 5
18.Hamilton 8
19.Petrov 10
20.Schumacher 5
21.Massa 5
22.Kobayashi 11

The total spins and offs and crashes include FP1,2,3, qual and race
Kobayashi had over 60 of these mishaps.
Hulkenberg had the least.





http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-...10-3254149.html

Mmmm Hulk top 22 points, Koba bottom 32 points.

Not convinced.

You still have to bear in mind that there is a little history behid most of them for example when Kobayashi lost 3 front wings during one weekend in Australia or when Buemi had his famous moment under braking in China Vettel seems to have not many those kind of moments but they were very costly and everyone will remember them well, same with his teammate. And Kubica with 2? I thought he had 3 - an off in FP in Japan, loosing wheel that weekend and a spin in Q3 in Brasil.

what is the definition of crash here ?

It would be better to show how many of these were unforced errors - e.g. Rosberg had 2 mechanical failures and in the third was taken out by Webber.

Webber surely had more than three ? he went off twice in Australia, collided with Vettel in Turkey, collided with Hamilton in Singapore and crashed in Korea

Then Valencia was just a flying?

oh yeah, that one too

Spins and offs outside of the race shouldn't be counted.

"at fault" incidents.

The ranking is by total errors. The last number is at fault crashes only.

I am not able to access the complete data for the details on spins and offs.(errors).
Clicking on the name of the driver doesn't do it on this side of the pond.
Can someone give is the numbers?

There are many types of spins and offs. Alonso had a very important one in FP3 in Monaco wich definitely affects his weekend.

That's a crash. If he had straightlined the chicane in practice that wouldn't be worth counting.

The ranking itself is an "error". What the hell does this listing prove ? Yes some drivers are more error prone than others but at the end of the day its who brings home the points.

If the ranking was based on "Avoidable Errors" aka driver error that resulted in the loss of point scoring potential then i would take it more seriously.

The error must be the fault of the driver and it must affect the potential scoring ability of the event.

Buemi's front wheels going on vacation is no fault of his.
Alonso writing off his car in Monaco during practice but still affecting his qualy ... debatable but im sure it affected his scoring potential so i would include it ..
Webber brainfade in Korea, &Valencia .. yep.. that counts.
Schumi's little spin at Yas Marina ?? yep .. thats his fault.

The funny thing is .. I totally aknowledge the fact that Koba is a "rough" driver.. and im sure at some points the Sauber Mechanics wanted to haze the living daylights out of him but then again some of his drives are absolute masterclass considering the car that he has to work with. Hulkenberg may have the least errors but god his drives are so uninspiring. Maybe if they could be merged .. hmmm = Kubica ?

That shows that Hulkenberg was very cautious - maybe too cautious. In hindsight, he would have been better off to risk more. He was very solid and hardly any mistake, but rookies are often judged for their raw performance and almost no one expects them to be error free.

Sorry to focus on 2 drivers but that's who I most paid attention to.... I dont remember 8 spins offs or crashes by Hamilton (only about 4). I only remember 2 incidents for JB... this table seems odd to me.

Your table doesn't make any sense. Next to Hulkenberg it says 5. Then Kubica it's 2, ok so maybe it's in descending order. Nope, it then goes up again. Make up your mind. How hard is it to make a normal table, what's wrong with people.

Button's three are an 'off' near the end of the wet race he won, a spin into the gravel at Degner in Suzuka practice, and getting Red Bullied in Spa, as far as I can recall.

There was a spin in the race in Korea and he tangled with FA early in the season and FA spun round at the start of the race.... are they also counting practice??? what the point of that ... I thought limits were to be explored?

Is that the three actually given in AMuS? If so they are a strange three to pick, especially as Spa was not an error of Button's and Suzuka just a drive through the gravel. He went off in Melbourne and spun in Korea.

Taking those as an example shows IMHO that the table is totally meaningless as a guide to driver error tendencies.

One thing it doesn't include is pitlane errors- stalling, overshooting the pitbox, etc

Look at the number on the other side of their name...

The on you looked at is the number of errors that were UNFORCED, which they weren't ranked by.

I have no idea if that's the three given in AMUS. I did say at the end these were to the best of my recollection. I don't recall Button being the one that spun Alonso in Melbourne, or a spin in Korea. All I did was list the three that came to me straight away. If there's five then that just indicates that AMUS pick and choose which ones they count as by this criteria there are four self inflicted errors and a Red Bullying. JJ Cale's post stated he only counted two errors, but now we have five. What AMUS counted is down to them and as I don't speak German I can't comment further.

haven't he gone off in the hairpin at china as well?

Yes...

I'm not following Hamilton closely but....Monza, Singapore, Belgium, FP in Japan, FP in Germany, Spain (although not his fault).

turn1 in korea? lost a place to Alonso by going off.

for what its worth, iracing system may fit, kinda
practise doesnt count

then
1x for going off track
2x for losing control
4x collision (0x aswell sometimes for a light tap)

given the large tarmac run offs now, not surprising some drivers explore the limits in practise

This makes no sense at all. Hulkenberg, Alguersari,, Schumacher and MAssa all have 5 'unfalls' but are placed 1, 17, 20 & 21 respectively?

Oh wait ...AMuS is German, Hulkenberg is the failing German rookie, right, got it now.

Okay, people, read closely.

"Ranking by spins, offs and crash. Shows number of crashes."

They are ranked least to most with all stats combined. The number thats displayed is only crashes, that is why you see numbers fluctuating up and down the list.

In fact not having offs in practice is probably a negative, that's where they find the limit (by going over it!).

Not keen on crashes either, alonso's is the only one I can think of that materially affected his result.
That might just be cos i don't want to count lewis's 2 in FPs though!

But I believe the 8 just refers to crashes.

So spa and korea can't count.

Probably included webber hitting him twice in australia against him, still a few to find though.

Maybe monza counted twice, once for hitting massa and once for going off at the next corner!

LH had 8(!?) crashes and JB had 3(!) ... LH had more mishaps than AS, VL , and some others in mindpack... I dont remember that, I am obviously too much a fanboy.

yeah these stats are wrong button went of in china while leading, malaysia qualifying, suzuka practice, korea spin,

Aren't you one of the first to take objection when people criticise the British press for being anti-Alonso?

If you read the opening post it explains the number next to the driver is their number of crashes, not total number of incidents.

what about a statistic only in races?

Webber only 3 crashes? Collided with Hamilton in Aus, then collided with Heikki in Valencia, collided with Vettel in Turkey (don t say it was his fault, but it was a collison) and then his crash in Korea... So, there are at least 4 "crashes/collisions" and only in race... And on other hand Alguersuari has 5 crashes? I am watching him closely, but can t remember this number... Collision with Chandhok in China while lapping him, collision with Chandhok in Spain while lapping him and then crash into Buemi on first lap, but what else? There were some minor things like running off in Monte Carlo in turn 1 with no position lost, a small mistake in Korea, where he lost 2 seconds, but it wasn t a crash or a spin as he controlled the car... In Singapore on Friday a left tyre of his STR had a contact with barrier, but it was again controlled and he continued the practise setting faster times then Buemi... He had a spin in Abu in Friday practise and was 2x times slightly off the track at rainy day in Suzuka (at least he was driving compared to others) ... But 5 real crashes? I know about 3 only... (2x with Karun and once with Buemi on Sunday)... The list of crashes should be published...

Would a crash only be counted as an incident where you had to stop? Because Webber finished in Australia and Turkey.

And Jaime "survived" all his 3 collisions, so I am also curious for the answer...

This is a load of horse shit.

Show me the results with FP1, FP2 and FP3 taken out.

They will tell a different story.

& singapore

I can see your point. I am not real big on these Stats lists. The thing is in our "new" F1 we have FP1 as essentially a test session for new parts. It is difficult to determine what effect some of these early FP1 crashes have on car development. If they are testing some high speed wing and the driver bins it in the first few test laps and they are unable to acquire data how do we really know what effect that will have in car performance in the next few races?

Right now the attitude about Practice crashes are "no harm, no foul" but is that really true? I am not sure but it is worth considering.

Silverstone was the FPs I watched most closely this year (as I was there) and Hamilton had about 8 offs during those FPs alone. They caused no car damage and preceded him qualifying about 7 grid spots higher than his team mate and taking second in the race.

japan - hairpin - Kobayashi? I think they touched twice in that corner.