With the Pirelli tyre tests in Abu Dhabi the 2011 season has started.

While Alonso headed the field ( http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88436 ), Massa was not far off and stated that the Pirelli tyres suited his driving style more than the tyres that he had to deal with in 2010. ( http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88414 )

Despite calls that Massa´s time was over, Felipe remains upbeat and states that he is in Ferrari to stay ( http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88523 ), so judging from his words he has not lost any of his fighting spirit.

This is all boding very well for a more competitive intra-team situation between Massa and Alonso in 2011 and it should also benefit the team with regards to the WCC. Let us watch and discuss how the duel Alonso versus Massa is shaping up in 2011.

He was faster, just saying.

Yep.

Massa 1m40.170s
Alonso 1m40.529s

although the course was better rubbered in for Pirelli tyres on Saturday then on Friday, when Massa did his time. Does bode well for their upcoming duel.

Here is WhiteBlue´s genius computer graphics (taken from the Vettel vs Webber 2011 thread):



Looks serious for Felipe, contrary to the test times in Abu Dhabi.

Alonso drove on Saturday, just saying again

It doesnt mean too much anway, who knows how will new car and final spec of tires behave...

Exactly, Alonso drove on Saturday when the track was rubbered in for Pirellis, and Massa drove on Friday, still getting a better time than Fernando. So it does seem the new tyres suit Felipe more. In that sense I also don´t think that Alonso will have it as easy in 2011 as he had it in 2010, so I expect the odds to drop in Massa´s favour.

The only chance Massa has in 2011 is if Alonso has bad luck in the first half of the season, and he is able to be ahead by a fair amount in points. They make it look like they have an equal chance when we all know the little alien is the number 2. FA inevitably will reach a point in the season when he will have to put his foot down on the little man's neck to assert his dominance, probably leading to another shameful incident like Hockenheim.

If you check, you will find out that times were slower on Saturday than they were on Friday - for example, Vettel: 1:40:861 Fri morning, 1:40:500 Fri afternoon, 1:40:825 Sat morning, 1:41:00 Sat afternoon.

By the way, it is going to be a very long 2011 season if people are already trying to make a point with just the first Pirelli tests to go by!

Like you just tried to do ?

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=4081048

As a Ferrari fan, I hope that Massa isn't even around for the start of the 2011 season because Ferrari will have fired his ass. The same goes for Smedley too. We don't need little babies throwing temper tantrums when they disagree with the team's strategy. I would say the same for Alonso or any other Ferrari driver if they acted that way. First commandment at Ferrari, "I drive for the team first and foremost.".

Well you better be ready for more drama, because that's the garbage FA brings with him. First it was the blowout at McLaren, then crash-gate at Renault, and in his first year at Ferrari we got Hockenheim. You can bet there will be a blowout in 2011, that's what this cat brings.

Precisely - only that I did not try to make an statement, rather to prove the impossibility of making one by providing some information that you obviously did not like.

Yes, I remember that - it was very funny to extrapolate from winter sports (or something like that) into F1. But I thought that it was due to the expectation created around Alonso moving to Ferrari after so many rumours on the previous 12 months, I did not expect it to happen every year!

Yes, I am sure that you will find out one.

Why did you assume I didn't like the information ? I don't give a rat's ass about the information you brought. I will wait until Bahrein, next year, to start to form an opinion on the relative performances of Alonso and Massa. But you, on the other hand, went to dig some numbers at the slightly suggestion that Massa was faster than Alonso with the new tires.

Cool story bro.

Spot on!

So you guys are already warming up for what will be a long season?

So be it! My take on the situation is that Alonso will win it, but with less margin than this year (or Massa is out of Ferrari by mid-season, to be replaced by one Nico Hülkenberg - who again is Nico managed by?).

They will not play such open team orders like this year, although the FIA council of December 9th still has to make its decisions on that topic. Even for Ferrari a PR disaster of that magnitude is not desirable. So Felipe will have to be ahead of Fernando fair and square by mid-season, and then everything is possible.

If this thread actually stay as the OFFICIAL one for the next season then it's very fitting. Why? Because the high priest of Alonsoism managed to get the OP. Nice!

I think Massa will come back and have a much better season. Alonso will still outpace him but Felipe will be have his moments of glory.

Thanks for the compliments, VicR!

As you can see from my post above, I am taking a differentiated position. Let us see how the season pans out, I would hope for Felipe that he will not be as hopeless again in 2011. In a way, the confidence that the whole Hockenheim thing has given to Fernando, the same incident has taken all the enthusiasm and confidence out of Felipe. Here´s hoping that Massa will regain his spirit and clout in 2011.

I have no idea of who will be faster on the new tyres. I provided the information because the statement I was replying to was stating as a proven fact that the track was faster on Saturday than on Friday, and from the data available we cannot say if that was the case indeed. And I ended my comment with a taunting smilie - in the hope that everybody would take it as a tongue-in-cheek comment. I totally overlooked the fact that some might take offense at the slightest suggestion that there was not enough information to state that Massa was faster than Alonso on the new tyres, (or the opposite) but a couple of you obviously did - so don't try to twist my words and portray yourself as the objective one.

If the ice karting event in Madonna di Campiglio is anything to go by, Alonso will destroy Felipe this year (2011) even more than he did in 2010. I wonder if they favoured Fernando or if these two races showed to true measure of strength between the two...

Can't wait for the new Ferrari being presented on Friday and the tests next week...

The question is not if Massa will be faster with Pirelli's tires. The question is will Alonso be slower...?. Based on how he handled the transition from Michelin from Bridgestone I seriously doubt it, but we shall see...

Yeah, after all he just went from being world champion to being ass kicked by a rookie, what a smooth transition!

Again bringing the 2007 with no perspective

That Hamilton was a rookie is not meaningful as he made a lot of pre-testing activities and had just came from a season in GP2 with BD. Even so I remind you Alonso finished just with the same points than Hamilton (with the team doing what Hamilton wanted after his moaning in Monaco) and just 1 behind of the WDC with all that "harsh transition" Alonso had to BD from Michelin. So even if he doesn't have a smooth transition to Pirelli, Alonso surely will be a treat anyway

Exactly. To suggest that Alonso underperformed in 2007 because of the tire transition just takes away the credit from the huge feat Hamilton did by matching Alonso in wins, points and breaking the tie with a second place.

6500 kilometres of testing vs. 5300 kilometres of testing + 1 year of testing + 5 years of testing & racing
Bridgestone GP2 slicks vs. Bridgestone F1 grooved
wanting to be treated like the other guy = moaning

World of Fernando, where everything is black&white, simple and easy to explain .

I agree, i think there may be a transition stage, and Alonso in the past few years, has rarely had really good starts to a season, instead becoming progressively faster as the season pans out. I think Massa's best chance is to have a really good start to the season, and get as far ahead of Alonso as possible, so there can be no contemplation of even favouring Alonso. The only problem is that this will require greater consistency on his part, and if he were to fail to maintain it, Germany 2010 gp race could be a microcsm of the 2011 season.

It would however be very unwise to rule out Alonso, as has been shown before. This time he has had a whole year at Ferrai, and has in all likelihood made it his. He is devilishly consistent and quick, with his only weakness his emtional outbursts (although some would see it as a strength). If he can make the transition to the Pirelli tyres, i really can not see Massa beating him, and if he starts off with a good car, then he will be a scarily formidible championship contender.

I don't see Massa winning for one reason: Ferrari isn't going to let him. I don't get the feeling that Ferrari is behind Massa very much after his end-of-season showing last year, and with the distinct possibility that Kubica or somebody else is going to take the second seat at Ferrari in 2012, is there really a realistic chance they'll keep him even if he wins the championship when they could get somebody faster or more consistent? Also, now that team orders are back in, Alonso has an easy way to assert his authority over Massa early in the season. I think the only chance Massa has of winning a race next season, let alone the championship, is if Ferrari builds an RB6 of a car and Alonso suffers a lost of bad luck. Otherwise, I think his season is realistically over already, because Alonso already has the momentum going for him within the team.

Hilarious series of posts there,it's tough to be biased and not sound like a complete jackass some(every)time(s),isn't it?



An ice karting joke event with 4-5 'entrants' - all of whom are required to make one driver feel at home at his first vacation with the 'family' - is not something normal F1 followers would 'go by'.

It's not his teammate that's a pain in the backside for Massa,it's the damn tyres. Get them right and we'll have some toys out the pram action again,next season.

There were lots of promises for "toys out of the pram" in last year's Alonso vs. Massa thread. However, we got no toys but tires thrown out of the pram instead.

So, now that tires are different thrown toys are promised again. We shall wait and see...

Can't wait for the excuses if Alonso beat again Massa.

Alonso will beat Massa. The important thing for Massa is that he has improved pace over last year though. He has no excuse this year, he should have fully recovered from the injury. I like Massa so hope he can put more of a fight this time. I think Germany killed him mentally which is a shame, still a new page for 2011!

I agree with you, but I think Massa was killed mentally way before. Everyone seems to think he lost if from Germany on, but me thinks he never really seemed on it.
I really want him to shine in 2011, he needs to forget about his team mate and challenge the rest.

Hopefully Massa is much closer this year otherwise they need to sign up Kubica or maybe Rosberg.

I am more intrigued about what excuses appear if the situation is reversed

Massa will improve his form this year and will win a few races IMO...however Alonso will beat him in most of races because he is the better racer between the two, can adapt better to different situations, is more perfectionist, determined, ambitious and never gives up even when all seems LOST for him.
In conclusion, Massa is a very good F1 driver but Alonso is even better because he is a more complete F1 driver than Massa.

This, although highly unlikely, would be a testament to the Massa we saw in 2008. In that year he was world class, we all (or most definitely myself) enjoyed his driving like anything.
And we would see more of Fernando Alonso´s character - so for both it would mean a lot of progress and personal development.

But as I said, highly unlikely...

I think in 2009 he was even better (finally more a racer then a qualifier), but the car was overall rubbish...

Indeed, he was miles ahead of Kimi. Too bad the accident at Hungaroring happened - a pre-accident Massa shooting out with Alonso would have been a treat indeed!

I'd agree with that for the most part except for his showing at Silverstone--that was a nightmare. But hey, everyone has their bad days, I guess. Massa's consistent weakness since his accident has seemed to be that he doesn't step up to the intra-team battle the way Alonso does. I don't think Massa would've ever tried the overtake on the run into the pits like Alonso did in China, or to try and persuade the team to make Alonso move over if he were turning faster lap times. I just don't see it in his character. I think if the roles were reversed, and Massa had Alonso's pace last year, he would've handled the championship campaign and his relationship with his teammate much differently than Alonso did.

I think you are quite correct that Massa would have handled last year differently than Alonso. That is the difference between having 2 WDCs and zero. There is a killer instinct that all the greatest champions have, regardless of their chosen field. I don't think you win a championship, let alone multiple championships without an extreme self-belief and a ruthless nature. Alonso has it. Schumacher has it. Senna had it. So did Prost. So does Lewis. Doesn't make you a bad person, just someone who knows that if there are 2 people going into a knifefight, they will be the one who will be walking out alive.To borrow from the "Highlander" film and television franchise, great champions like these men believe "There can be only one." And, of course, they believe that "ONE" -- 'THE BEST" -- is them. While I admire him as a world class driver, I don't believe Felipe fits into that category, sorry to say.

Can't wait for testing to get underway so we can get a real sense of how things will go this season.

I think the ruthless thing is overstated. Was Mika ruthless? Hill? Button? No, it's perfectly possible to be a champion and a reasonably well adjusted person at the same time.

That said, I don't think Massa will give Fernando much trouble this year (though I hope I'm wrong). Then the question becomes - does Massa get the boot or are his chances of staying better if it keeps Alonso happy (rather than bringing in a Kubica or Vettel)?

I'm expecting Massa to return to his best form. Yes, that means he will marginally "beat" Alonso (whatever that means), the better the car is, the better showing he will do.

+1 Well said and it's the nature of Competition in both it's ugliness and Glory!

I don't see the point in being the judge of which driver is more well-rounded,fair,humane or having more non-competitive qualities that we all admire like humility for example.You'd really have to get to know the driver personally and spend lots of time with them to really be the judge at that.
The drivers public image is often so different from the real person I'm sure!

I think Massa definitely has it in him to fight back in 2011.

A good example of this is Bahrain and Hungary 2008. Before Bahrain, he spun out in Melbourne at the start of the race, and then had an engine failure. In Sepang, he lost concentration and spun out of a comfortable 2nd place. Before Hungary, there was Silverstone (we mustn't forget that Kimi had his spins as well, so the car obviously wasn't easy to drive) and Germany, where he let Hamilton by without much of a fight (a relief, otherwise Piquet would be a GP winner! ) and couldn't catch Piquet.

In both cases, in the race after, he came out and dominated the race. In fact Hungary 2008 was one of his best ever drives and probably one of the greatest drives of the last few years.

Even with his problems in 2010, he showed on several occasions that he could be close to or ahead of Alonso - think of Melbourne, Turkey, Germany, Hungary, Spa etc.


He just needs a bit of luck here and there, like Webber had in 2010. Like Webber was, Massa is definitely long overdue some good luck, so who knows, it might just happen.




Yes, he was underrated in 2009. He did a fantastic job with a poor car - particularly at Barcelona.

I think he possibly could have got a win or two late in the season - maybe at Valencia, Brazil or even Hungary considering his past form there and the speed of Kimi. As mentioned above, if he could have carried this momentum into 2010, it could have been much different with Alonso.

Also, it possibly meant that his tyre problem wasn't properly identified in pre-season testing as they were more focused on getting him comfortable in the car again.

Meanwhile at teh Ferrari Camp...

Fisichella crashed into the back of a 52 y.o. woman's car while driving his company car.

Luckilly nothing happened and she was discharged from the hospital.

Later Fisi explained to the police that constructors were fixing the road, which made it impossible to stop his car

A very good post... I like Felipe and would be very happy, if he can come back strong as he was before his crash in Hungary... Maybe he just needed time to sort things out... I am very excited about Pirellis, if they will suit him better... I know Alonso is a very very strong opposition, but everyone is beatable, even Mr. Schumacher...