1. Hamilton
1. Button

(can't decide)

3. Vettel
4. Alonso
5. Webber
6. Sutil
7. Massa
8. Liuzzi
9. Barichello
10. Hulkenberg

....then the rest.

Williams that competitive? They will have to make a really slick low-downforce package then. It's not often they've been noticeably fast down the straigths, which is also pointing a finger at Cosworth. I rather think Sauber will be ahead of them. I think Williams together with Mercedes, will be just behind Sauber.

Last year stats shows:
Weber with higher top speed at speed trap 343km/h in front of Sutil and Hamilton with 342
Hamilton with best S1, Barrichello with best S2, and Webber with best S3
fastest laps in Q2: Barrichello, Button and Hamilton --> 1 tenth Sutil --> 2 tenths Liuzzi and Webber --> 2 tenths Raikkonen, Alonso, Kovalainen and Vettel

So I don`t think there will be clear favorite at Monza, it will be close call between RedBull, Ferrari and McLaren, with Mercedes, Renault and especially Force India in the mix. I`m not so sure which one of Mercedes powered cars will be fastest at all it may well be Force India as they have even less draggy car this year.

Not true. Monza is with Monaco as the least fuel demanding track, cars will start with "only" some 130 kilos on board.


Looking at sector times from Belgium, on paper fastest cars at Monza should be McLaren, Ferrari, Force India, Renault and maybe Red Bull. But of course Monza requires less downforce and there are different chicanes, so it can change.

I wonder if HRT can surprise and be the best of new teams. They create much less drag than Lotus and Virgin, so it'll be interesting to see how they will perform.

Alonso, Massa & Vettel have used 7 engines, most other drivers have used 6 engines, aside De La Rosa with all 8 used up

Vettel used his 6th (for the third time) @spa.

Did he use the 7th at all over the whole weekend?

That list has been confirmed by Scarbs. Not sure where the 7th was used but it has been used

Vettel used his 6th engine at Spa, see pages 1 and 7 of this pdf: Belgium Technical Report

A lot of people are assuming that Monza plays to McLaren's strengths. But one of the advantages they have (a fully integrated and well developed F-duct) is actually minimised at Monza due to the extremely low downforce setups they'll already be using.

At other circuits (and in particular Spa) it's been Mercedes power + integrated and developed F-duct > Renault power + bolt on F-duct. I think at Monza the F-duct is effectively sidelined and that in theory helps Red Bull as part of the McLaren speed advantage equation is neutered. Meanwhile, between those long straights there are corners that are tailor-made for the RBR: fast corners, and chicanes.

I think it's going to be a lot closer than many are expecting.

Every other race we seem to be at a circuit that doesn't suit the RB. But still: 12 out of 13 poles. And the one they missed they could have taken had they chosen the quicker tyre.

Still, on paper Monza should be not just a weak track but their weakest track. And there's another round of new tests. So we'll see. But the easy dismissal of RB seems premature.

The Renault has good mechanical grip as we seen in Monaco, their top speeds aren't bad either, so I would say that Robert on podium isn't such risky bet as it seems.

I was going to ask, how important is mechanical grip at Monza? Because that has been a relatively weak point for McLaren.

You may be right...

yeah, R30 has good suspension too. But I don't think they will be able to get uinto top 3.

Didn't they change the chicanes last year to make them less ridable?
This is good news for McLaren, unless they change them back to 2008 kerbs.

They'll hardly change it back to the 2008 kerbs,the layout is the same

Source :



From the F2 race 2nd of May 2010

I would bet 3rd place for Robert, with Lewis and Jenson miles away in top2. The Ferraris are struggling, RedBull isn't so good on straights.

Cars that ride the kerbs well can afford to take more of the kerb than others. It also helps because you can get on the power earlier as it is important to exit the chicanes in a straightline, especially at Monza.

^^ Those semi circular humps look like those that some drivers were complaining about at Silverstone. Will we hear any comments on them here?

They are quite common now at slower corners, the problem at Silverstone (according to the drivers) was at a much faster bend.
Something had to be done at Monza, prior to last year it was not uncommon to see cars taking those chicanes with all four wheels off track on pretty much every lap.

I'm not sure that's true.

The f duct has allowed mclaren to run more wing than rb to negate their downforce disadvantage whilst maintaining comparable/slightly higher top speed.
So if they don't have to fun more wing the need for the f duct isn't really there, cancels itself out doesn't it? Hopefully leaving the macca with a top speed advantage from the engine plus less drag on the body of the car (presumably as RB generates more downforce from the car).

Plus potential slowing down of RB from the new tests...

Why do people quote past sports stats when predicting the outcomes of an event?

This is as relevant as connecting Hamilton to the 1963 Green Bay Packers.

........yet you find time to post that thought, here on this F1 forum?

Jeebus man, find a good sportcar forum and stay there!

Lotus with Monza-spec rear wing:

It looks extremally flat.

It looks like it will be dry.

http://www.accuweather.com/en-us/it/lombar...a/forecast.aspx

Grenada, I hope so, I'm heading out on Thursday morning for 4 days at Monza and would love to see a TOTALLY DRY (track) event to get a comparison of where the teams are relative to one another.
I know the extra tests on the floors, the WMSC meeting regarding Ferrari team/not team orders from Hockenheim form the backdrop, but a beautifully SUNNY and WARM event will give us a great guide to the form for the season's closing Grand Prix's.
Like a big kid waiting for Christmas

Fine, I don't like to get wet

I 'm there, too but only on Sunday

Have a great time!

Enjoy the trip! Having been to my first race at Spa, can definitely say I wish I was going too.

Monza's not going to say much about form for the rest of the season, though. It's a unique track, where they run one-off low downforce aero solutions. Although it'll be worrying for everyone else if RBR are strong at Monza.

I think the wingss will be much flatter than last year because there's soo much rear downforce from the diffuser now.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86434

Williams will be running with F-duct at Monza. WTF is going on McLaren claimed that they probably won't run it on Monza, same as Renault, Ferrari is unsure and now Williams is absolutely sure about their choice.

Media game?

Interesting what Sam Michael said about balance between advanatges and disadvantages in using F-Duct at Monza:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86434
I' a bit suprised an confused as I think certain rules of aerodinamics would be obvious and clear for any engineer working in F1. Well we must wait and see who is right then.
I'm one minute late

It may be that Williams cannot generate as much downforce from the diffuser and need slightly more rear wing angle.
It could also be that McLaren's initial statement was a red herring.

Ok, and now we have Renault undecided on F-duct for Monza:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86439

I'm totally confused. Super duper sure Williams vs Undecided Ferrari, McLaren and Renault, no news from RBR and Merc. Maybe clear downforce with no-drag penalty (floor and diffuser) have something to do with that.

Maybe it's mind games? McLaren release a rumour that they might not run the F-duct and that gets everyone else second guessing their own strategy for the weekend- what did they miss that McLaren have seen?! Who knows, come Monza all teams bar Williams might run the F-duct

Maybe the decision pro/con depends on the specific implementation used by each team, which is why we're seeing different teams saying different things. It could be that some teams' implementations introduce a slight drag/aero efficiency penalty forward on the car that is normally more than countered by the stalling of the rear wing, but wouldn't be countered at Monza due to the much reduced rear wing angle.

well, i would not take Spa quali as an indication of performance. If you remember, the weather was tricky with a window of 3-5 min to post a fast lap. Having said that, the easy money for a win are on Macca. Force India was a chance for good performance just because of their engine. Finally, someone will have a DNF there. I hope not to be Alanso, but my fears are there. Vettel is another DNF posibility. We will see.

Ok just to clarify things up...





http://en.espnf1.com/forceindia/motorsport/story/27188.html

---

It all depends on who's got the best F-duct systems. See someone like Renault or Force India seem to have rather good systems compared to Mercedes where it never really got going. If you've got a really good system it could offset the ultra low rear wing whilst giving you abit more at the corners. That's if, though. It's what the practice sessions are all about

Well, Ferrari won't have engines to match that unless they are using a 9th engine at some time later on. And after their display on dry conditions in Spa, they are no longer on the same league as Mclaren and Red Bull.

And you wish Hamilton is maybe half as silly as Alonso was in Malaysia, Monaco and/or Spa?

Monza is the circuit that burns the smallest amount of fuel per km during the season. Spa is on 2nd place. That happens for the same reason that your road car burns less fuel on a highway at 120 km/h than at the city center at 40 km/h.

One good race for Mclaren and you have the balls to say Ferrari are not in Mclaren and RedBulls league. Spa and Monza were always going to suit the Mclaren...

Your other statement doesn't dignify a response.

Though Monza is worst track for Red Bull in calendar, they will have massive advantage in Parabolica, so I expect them to be on par with McLaren.

Not after being raped on the straights.

You mean virtually every corner.

The Red Bulls may have an advantage around the Parabolica, but down the straight because they have more drag, they will get eaten up. I can see Red Bull fighting not only with Mclaren and Ferrari, but Force India, Renault and Williams. You can even throw Sauber into the mix, if their low downforce package hits the sweet spot. Red Bull could easily finish 5th or worse come Sunday.

My feelings are similar, let assume that RedBull won't be so bad in terms of pace, but even on tracks that suit them they can blow things up (mechanical failures, driver failures, strategy failures), so if they can't make a good result on tracks were they have a huge advantage, I doubt that they can make a good result on a track that don't suit them. So IMHO there is a question who will be right after McLaren waiting for them to make a mistake, Robert or Fernando?

After Germany we all know what you were saying about Ferrari being ahead of Red Bull and miles ahead of Mclaren. And after Hungary Ferrari was 1.0+ seconds slower and worse than the F-Duct Renault at Spa.

And my last statement has the same value as yours "Hamilton will make something silly". The only difference is that you wish hamilton does something silly (which he may well do) whereas Alonso has already done tons of silly things.

Ah, and let's not forget about Wednesday and the points that will be lost.

The same was said about S2 in Spa, but in order to be competitive on S2/S3 they had to take so much wing off that they were only 0.3 on average faster than Mclaren. And probably the same will happen at Monza. And that maybe exarcebated by the fact the wings are totally different and therefore cars can have a completely unusual performance, which is valid for Mclaren also, and they might not be as quick as everyone thinks.

That said, I think Mclaren will have an slight advantage and the rest of the pack will be very close. And one thing that might help Mclaren is that they are able to use enghine retardation mode for the whole race. That on a track where wings DF level is so low, will be an advantage exiting the Lesmos and the Parabolica during the race.