There was an interesting quote from Martin Brundle after yesterday's Belgium Grand Prix, which I thought was worth putting to you guys - he basically said that Kubica is now a "world class driver" alongside the Hamilton's and Alonso's of Formula One.

I don't disagree with Martin, but I'm not sure he's done enough to justify that - yet. I don't think we've seen enough of Kubica at the front yet to justify the 'world class' status. No doubt he's talented, no one's disagreeing there, but I don't think he's on the same level as Hamilton or Alonso.

I am a fan of Kubica, and he hasn't made many mistakes this year, apart from his pit lane blunder this year. I think it helps to an extent that his team-mate "isn't good" as there isn't much pressure on his shoulders, so he's just for the moment getting more experience under his belt.

I do feel though, if Renault produce a winning car next season that it won't be long until we see Kubica on the top step more often... I don't see Kubica cracking under championship pressure myself if he was ever in contention. (I'm not sure you class him as being in serious contention in 2008 - OK, he was there no doubt, but did he ever have a realistic chance?)

There is already a good Robert Kubica thread...

No.

Poll maybe?

Depends on your definition of world class. I'd put him in the top 5drivers on the grid.

I always thought so, but 2009 really had me stumped. He had a bad car but he seemed really disinterested and with that in mind if Renault aren't capable of the title within 3 or so years I don't know if he would continue to commit to that. The R30 is a good car, but with Petrov in the other seat its hard to work out how well Robert is driving.

Yes.

Yes.

Better than Rosberg, Vettel, Webber and Button for my money.

I think he is in the top 5 of the current F1 grid but would acknowledge that having Petrov as a benchmark is far from ideal to be able to judge.

I'm a bit RK fan but I took note that the first signficant mistake he made all season appears to have been induced by pressure. Until RK is tested by being in a WDC fight (I dont count 2008) there will always be a caveat when he is said to be world class... but the talent is definitely there.

Also dont dismiss ability to dismiss pressure as a factor to be taken into account...compare LH in 2008 with SV in 2010. The biggest difference would not be talent levels.

Together with Webber Kubica has been the best driver of this year so yes.

I'm a big fan of him, and naturally I think he can be a world class driver. But to prove that you a world class driver, you need to have a top car, not one with which you can fight for podiums there and there, but a car with which you can fight for wins and pole positions for several races. If he gets such car, and he deliver, then we can call him a world class driver, but not earlier.
IMHO he has the speed like Hamilton or Alonso, but until he don't get a top car, in which he will deliver having other equal top cars to fight with (and/or team mates), it's nothing more than an opinion not a fact. And even the fact that the so many experts share this opinion, doesn't make it to be something more than a opinion.

What's the difference?

I think he is, but who am I to judge?

I think Robert gives as good as he gets. BMW was often documented as being a cold, clinical environment to work in - the plan BMW were working to was proof, and it is widely known that Robert was frustrated with the lack of passion BMW seemed to have. As a Kubica fan, I'm so glad BMW pulled out because he's now in a team that is very strong and very committed. I think we'll see Robert thrive in this environment, and maybe form a serious title challenge in the next few years.

lol chandhok twitter:

btw. Ice Kube is one of these more cool headed drivers around - but he was totally pissed off at himself (for his own pit stop brain f@rt) after the race

every non-paying-for-a-seat driver that's in F1 is by definition a world class driver. Even if he/she never gets on a podium.

Robert seems to perform well in a decent car that suits him, It's so difficult to judge how good the Renault is because the team is notoriously bad at runnign two equal cars.


When has that ever stopped D.M.N before. I'n just suprised this wasn't called "The OFFICIAL is Robert Kubica a world class driver thread".;)

Is Heidfeld considered upper echelon because Kubica is equal to Nick.

Wait a minute... What is Renault mechanic doing at Brackley?

well, maybe he lives there...

In F1 terms you are as good as your last season and for my money Hamilton and Kubica have shown to be the two best drivers of the year so far. I see him pulling the Renault team to a higher position than Alonso could last year.

Maybe thats totally unjustified, but I have a feeling that Robert on Fernandos place this year would put the Ferrari much higher, but as I said, it's just a feeling.

this one

Of course...
Like Robert, he's also never had a top car.
There just arn't enough top cars to go around.

Absolutely he is - I rank him in my top tier of drivers for sure

Of course not. Heidfeld beat him. Brundle is biased.
But seriously, do we need Brundle to tell us, who is world class or not, just watch the races and make up your mind. This world class label means little anyway. Is Button world class? Top driver, yes but world class? Is Vettel world class? At the beginning of the season he was considered by many (IMO wrongly). How about now? What if he wins WDC this season, despite many awful drives. Will that make him world class?
Kubica is a top driver and differences between top drivers are small.
To those claiming Petrov is not a good benchmark:
- Mercedes, McLaren, Ferrari and Force India drivers (with cars faster, equal or slightly slower than Renault depending on a circuit) are the benchmark for Kubica this season. Not Petrov, unless he beats him once in 13 races. People easily forget that Renault was faster than Mercedes for the first time in Canada (eighth race of the season). Yes, IMO they were equal in Monaco (Ferrari and RB faster).

I had to check the date on the OP to be sure this thread wasn't two years old.

Well, if starting the race on high down force and full wet settings, yet STILL binning the car is world class for Alonso, then yes.

Overshooting your pit in the critical stop of your F1 career because you were fiddling with the buttons too long, losing a certain second place..uh, no.

Put him in a Red Bull, a Ferrari, or a McLaren and see how he does against his teammate...he's definitely fast, especially given that he's not in one of the fastest cars.

This is why on Saturday, all the drivers should compete in a standard car race- put them all in a 911, equal equipment and see who comes out on top.

That is unnecessarily harsh, I think. The pitlane was wet, he was rushing to get the settings sorted and locked up the brakes. As many pundits said, it's an easy mistake to make. Besides, it certainly wasn't the most critical stop of his career. He only lost one place, and it wasn't the difference between winning and losing the championship.

Unlike losing certain first place by missing big red light and big red car in front in the middle of dry and sunny day while driving 50 km/h?

2008 confirmed to me that he is a world class driver.
When/if he gets a car capable of winning races regularly then he will definitely be a champion.

Of course not.

Obviously, Kubica is a good driver but I find it interesting that every time he had a chance of a really great result, he'd make a little mistake and end up with a very good result.

It's easy to look good when there's no pressure and a rookie team mate. But let's not forget that for most of his time at Sauber, Heidfeld was very close. So no, I don't think Kubica is world class yet because he hasn't really put in the sustained results to prove it.

There's no universal accepted definition of "world class driver", so whether he is or not is really going to come down to what people personally feel a world class driver needs to acheive to gather such an acolade.

Personally, no, I wouldn't. I'd put Alonso and Hamilton in my top class, with probably Button, Webber, Vettel in my second class alongside Kubica, though as some have said, Petrov makes just how good Robert is doing this season difficult.

For the record, I rate Heidfeld, and he would be in my 3rd class of drivers. Schumacher, his career over has been world class, but at the current moment I feel he's way below that level.

"Of course" you can say when you're claiming that somebody is an idiot .

About Robert... Hmm... Murray Walker and Jackie Steward must be right so I think quite similar to them.

F1 is the ultimate single seater world race series, therefore one could say most of the 20 something drivers are world class.

I'm Robert's fan, so I'm not the best person in the world to judge whatever he is a world class driver (alongside Hamilton and Alonso I assume), or not. However, when

people like Murray Walker, Jackie Steward, Martin Brundle and many other well known 'insiders' of the sport, who certainly know a lot more about drivers than we fans,

say that he is a world class driver, then I'm gonna believe them.

@mods

Please, close this thread. People are entilted to their opinions and this thread will surely turn into a pointless flamewar, soon.

I' say Robert's been 'world class' for a few years now.. He's damn quick and rarely puts a wheel wrong. Given a championship calibre car, I think he could mount a serious title bid.

+1

Using that logic, lets just close down the entire BB, now.

Yeah, one could think so, but there is a slight difference between discussing matters and presenting your own subjective opinion combined with dripping venom on the keyboard.

what race was Brundle watching? or, what if it was a HRT driver who flew off the track at Radillon, ran a competitor off the track on the Kemmel, and struck a mechanic in the pits? what would Brundle think of that driver?

A world class driver will be quick in a slow car. Does Robert fit that description? I think so.

Andy

Like in Monza 06, Canada 08, or Monaco 08, or Malaysia 08, Brazil 09, or Monaco 2010?

All except the last one (he lost a place at the start - but that was always going to happen) were flawless drives indeed. Monaco '08 in particular strikes me as a performance where the finishing place was not what was deserved of the quality of driving.

I'd also add to that list Australia '10. He lost a place to Button, but with cold tyres that was an inevitability.

Then Sutil also fits it this year.