PLEASE someone point out the difference? One is judged a racing incident worthy of bloody 'reprimand' only, the other a DT. One did it several times in the same race, the other lost control on a damp track.

Jesus , the British stewards are having a parade this year, aren't they

Same situation, like 2008 Fuji & 2010 Hungaroring, but the judges are british, Webbo is an anglo-saxon, Schumi & Vettel are germans...

It was Vettel's mistake but i don't understand why he got a penalty for that. If that wasn't a normal race accident then what is? He didn't intentionaly lose the control over his car under breaking, he didn't take out Jenson intentionaly. Also it looked like it was a bit wet and we have seen at the beginning of the race that this makes it a bit tricky in that particular breaking zone. These things happen.

I can't believe that Nigel Mansell agreed with that or even was involved.

Agreed. Shouldn't have been a drive-through for Vettel.

Shouldn't have got penalty but maybe they were trying to get him off the track. He was a mess out there today

stupid penalty, F1 shows how ridiculous it is once again

Drive through was fair, Vettel took Button out, Webber didn't take Hamilton out

Just Wunderkid over driving again. He deserved the penalty and should have got one for the other incident too.

So we're judging the ends only? What if Vettel's impact point was a few inches sideways and JB somehow made it to the finish (albeit with a LOT of damage)...would that change your opinion? Or would you still want to see the boy punished because he pushes the wrong buttons?

I don't agree with the penalty...
It was a racing incident and last time i checked, F1 was still regarded as racing so...
I believe that most of the drivers will agree that it was unfair... imagine if everytime something like this happens they are going to get a penalty...

Of course we 're judging the outcome of the mistake, how else can you judge it? Rosberg brushed Schumi, didn't impede him though so ... what? Do you want drivers to get penalties whenever they get close to each other?

The circumstances of the mistake? Murder, homicide, suicide all end the same way, but are judged differently. Same principle applies.

Q: If you thought this isn't a racing incident, what is?

Maybe just maybe they have decided it is time to get the finger boy to adjust his driving attitude. he has caused quite a few incidents this year, no im not going to list them all but those who have watched the whole season have seen them. He never admits fault and acts like a spoilt brat of late.
2 drive throughs in two consecutive races is pretty telling, somebody better ave a word in his ear at RB.

I didn't say Vettel intended to take Button out, end result was he did though, and that IMO justifies the penalty. Like you said ... it wasn't "pre-meditated murder" but still ... somebody was "killed", there needs to be some punishment for that. In the Webber/Hamilton case nobody "died" so ....

Please go and look at the replays this was not a braking mistake. He attempted a pass both sides of Button and basicly threw the car into a spin probably helped by slippery track. But don,t worry it will always be the other drivers fault according to his blind fans. Remember this is the guy who runs into cars while under the safety car. That incident was probably the safety cars fault maybe a safety car penalty called for

You DO realise that when Webber hit Lewis in Australia, he didn't have any reprimands at the time. If he had, like Vettel had before today, perhaps Webber too would have been given a drive-through.

Another factor here, where did each impact cause damage on each car? Webber ran into the back of Hamilton, Vettel hit the side of Button. Could that have made a difference to the decision making?

Vettel was driving like an idiot today, perfectly deserved drive-through.

And don't be daft enough to claim "British stewards" are all biased, despite the fact there are three others there

reprimands are forms of punishment, not the racing equivalent of yellow cards

How do you know? Besides, a reprimand means nothing, nothing at all unless the reprimand actually leads to something. I think reprimands linger on, to aid the stewards to make a decision.

Perhaps a Webber fan may ask in rebuttle, if they were so inclined, how come Seb didn't get a penalty in Turkey?

I don't think Seb deserved a penalty for the Button incident, nor Webber for the Aus one, nor Vettel for Turkey. On the other hand, between the cutting of the chicane on lap 1, the Button incident and the Liuzzi incident, I'm not particularly fussed with Seb getting hit with a drive through today. That's just me though.

OK fine how do you know

PS Whiting said a while ago, each driver has a dossier including previous investigations etc etc and it's at the stewards disposal at any time but they only look at repetitions of similar incidents when deciding punishment.

I don't, that's my point, and I can't prove a negative, now can I.

I can understand ppl wanting consistency, but maybe thats why they have time for the stewards to deliberate and investigate.

webber had no reprimands, didnt take hammo out of the race who was in 5th (?) at the time, and webber finished behind him still.

vettel had previous warnings, put button out of the race while in 2nd, and quite possibly any shot button had of the championship (who was just behind vet in the standings to boot)

completely different consequences for both incidents. but I agree that it is becoming worrying that drivers may be getting punished for race incidents, when they are racing - they aint robots for gods sake.

but as far as pointing out the difference between the 2 incidents in the title of the thread, well, its apples and oranges.

At one point I wondered if his team would pull him in and claim he had a mechanical issue....If it was amateur racing he would have been black flagged for being dangerous today.

Stop making assertions based on Nationality. Grow up.

Just so you know....

Anglo-Saxons is the term usually used to describe the invading Germanic tribes in the south and east of Great Britain from the early 5th century AD, and their creation of the English nation, to the Norman conquest of 1066.[1] The Benedictine monk, Bede, identified them as the descendants of three Germanic tribes:[2]

* The Angles, who may have come from Angeln (in modern Germany), and Bede wrote that their whole nation came to Britain,[3] leaving their former land empty. The name England (Old English: Engla land or Ængla land) originates from this tribe). [4]
* The Saxons, from Lower Saxony (in modern Germany; German: Niedersachsen), and Holland
* The Jutes, from the Jutland peninsula (in modern Denmark; Danish: Jylland)

Their language, Old English, derives from "Ingvaeonic" West Germanic dialects and transformed into Middle English from the 11th century. Old English was divided into four main dialects: West Saxon, Mercian, Northumbrian and Kentish.

Who were the stewards? Just wondering if you actually know...

If I remember correctly, the Webber incident occurred very late in the race. Maybe there was not enough time (a) for the stewards to decide what to do and (b) for a stop and go punishment to be taken. As a stop and go can be taken any time in the three laps after the decision, that means the decision must be made at least three laps before the end of the race.

Vettel said he hit a bump, so I don't think the damp track had anything to do with it. No-one else was caught out on that lap.

I would suggest the stewards took a look at the bigger picture in this situation.
As has already been pointed out not only did Vettel take Button out of the race, he also put a very large dent in Button's title hopes. This is the crucial difference here and the stewards took an eye for an eye view.
Early in the season there is still time to make up for a loss of points. At this time of year it is starting to get very difficult.

The stewards reviewed the Webber incident in Australia after the race and he was reprimanded.
If it was deemed worthy they could have imposed a grid drop for Malaysia.

Button driving in a straight line having Vettel drive into the side of him wasn't the same as Hamilton moving to the far left of the track to go around Alonso and then moving back to the right - where Webber was close behind and punted him. Different circumstances and attributions by drivers produced different stewards results.

"Causing an avoidable accident" belongs in this thread somewhere, if it hasn't been mentioned already.

Those going on about German drivers, British driver stewards etc and that being why Vettel was penalised, with all due respect, you're talking rubbish. Sorry to be blunt, but you are. The driver steward doesn't make the decision. The TEAM of stewards decide if an incident needs investigating, they ALL then investigate the incident, different camera angles, etc, check the rulebook, and they ALL decide what, if any penalty should be given. People saying a German driver got penalised because the driver steward is British are just talking rubbish, and they know it (again, sorry to be blunt). Also I think Vettel was to blame, my personal opinion is his movement left, on what may have been a slightly damp track, was too violent a movement, and that's what caused the crash. I'd say the penalty was 50/50 as to whether it should've been given or not, but I think they will have taken into account reprimands for Vettel (and he's had at least 1 or 2, and that doesn't include Turkey where seemingly everyone but RBR blamed him for causing that collision) when it came to making the decision, but obviously don't know that for certain.

it didnt look like the stewards investigated anything, the decision was way too quick to be a thoughtful one. It was more like: "oh no, it sucks that button is out of the race, lets punish vettel cause eye for an eye makes total sense in this particular race".

it would also be hilarious if mansell was responsible for this, i mean we are talking about a guy who crashed senna out of a race after being DSQ, not exactly the guy that would reprimand vettel's move

about the accident what happened was pretty simple. vettel had commited himself to the inside line very early, button kept his options open until near the braking zone, at this point he chose the same line as vettel, vettel was way too close to button and the only way to save the situation was to brake heavily and let button go. in that fraction of a second his instinct was to do other thing though: brake and try an emergency quick move to the outside line and obviously that ended in tears. Basicly it was aggressive defending + aggressive attacking = collision waiting to happen. Obviously Vettel made a wrong decision, but worth a penalty? A very clear NO! A lot of ppl hate the guy but this is completely incoherent decision and unfair.

As I said, ALL the stewards are involved, and the decision to penalise drivers (and in which way) isn't taken by 1 steward. Mansell can give his opinion like the rest of the stewards, but he alone doesn't make that decision.

Conspicuous by it's absence is a comparison between the incident yesterday and Webber getting a drive through in Germany in 2009 - where both drivers continued on. Makes your thread, and baseless nationalistic accusations therein, look like a pointless whinge.

Garry Connelly is an Australian before you embarrass yourself further.

Yves Bacqueline was one of the stewards who made the decision to penalise Hamilton at Spa in 2008.

If you're going to the play the race card at least get your facts straight first, otherwise you just end up showing everyone else your own pathetic racist tendancies.

Sure, the british stewards argument does not convince me. However, i can't deny that i feel the decisions from stewards always seem a bit convenient and manipulated, but the reason is not to favour a specific country but rather keep things exciting and spectators happy, that's why i mentioned the WWE aspect earlier.

This also happened clearly in 2006, 2007 and 2008. alonso penalty at monza for blocking massa, hamilton losing his victory at spa to massa, the spygate decision, there are plenty of examples where it just seems too convenient, and its not like the decisions are definitely wrong all the time but the same thing they use to punish a guy like Vettel today, for instance, they will probably overlook in a future race just because it doesnt matter. And Monaco, the whole Schumi passing Alonso situation and they didnt even care for stuff that were actually clear penalties like Barrichello throwing his wheel away in front of other cars. There's also Vettel's penalty at Hungary, we have seen the 10 car length distance be ignored before by the stewards.

To sum it up, F1 is too political and less about pure racing that comes from the heart, it just lost what made it so great. Every race seems to end up in frustration nowadays, and as i feared from the beginning the whole "sensible stewarding" they tried to convince us they were doing at the start of the season was just another usual political BS.

EDIT: @stevvy1986