Is unsure I really want to watch this film. Nothing can change the fact he's not here, but knowing that there are people still involved in F1 who were at least in part responsible for his death.. it makes me angry, sad, helpless. If the film included the missing camera footage then fine, closure would be amazing. Someone somewhere knows that happened. But until that day, which will very likely not come, we are just left with loss. If the film ends with the crash, I think it will ignite all that hope and wonder watching Senna only to leave down and dejected. It's been good reading some of these reviews as I am still undecided.

I don't know about a 3 hour version, I have the blu ray that runs to something like 2 hours 40something minutes

Yeah, isn't it weird?? Like for minutes the footage is perfect, but the very -second- (like 1 second) he says "Die" it distorts.

-And yeah I mean the 2h40m version.

Just watched the DVD with my friends after the Aussie GP. I also find some footage of old races were in worse picture quality when compared with the F1 season review DVD by Japanese Fuji TV ( Japanese commentary only ) , which is a little bit disappointing.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3558534

The most important thing about Senna's life was not why he crashed. In all fairness the possibility exists that it was simply bad luck and not a mechanical failure ( Williams did pay 40 million dollars for him afterall, and were the last people that would have wanted something bad to happen to him). Senna's death simply sealed the circle of his reason for being. A very beautiful tribute to this last point is in the movie at the start of the Imola GP, I won't spoil it.

The most important thing (to me) about Ayrton Senna was that of all people, this one person who was the fastest and most able driver by far, and also the most humble, virtuous, and philantrophic was the one who was chosen to die at his calling.

Together with all the odd premonitions one almost thinks it was scripted to be.

And it is that which I think the movie misses out on.

Yeah, they need to fix alot on eventual remastered editions. Even I have better quality examples of some of the footage they used.

What amazed me was that the incar footage (Jerez, Monaco, etc) actually had out of sync audio. You heard gearchanges when the incar footage obviously showed no gear change, etc. Or the infamous last laps in Brazil '91 with the car stuck in 6th. The incar view actually had gearchange sounds. I guess it stems from editing together different sources for video and audio, but come on, it's 2010, a studio should be able to get this right. (or create something that sounds better.)

I was amazed they made such massive errors in editing.

They can edit hours of amateur footage into a feature length movie but they can't sync onboard audio to video?

~Emre

No one picked up when he was asked what he wanted for christmas, and the girl is wishing him a happy christmas for 90, 91, 92 and 93 - and there she stopped. That gave me some goosebumps...

I'd wager that several people did pick up on that. I read some discussion about it already somewhere around here awhile back.

I watched the 2hr 40 version last night. I guess the extra time means it has more interviews in compared to the shorted version? As I finished watching feeling they could have put a bit more racing footage in with less talking. Anyway, a small point really, as it was a brilliant film and very enjoyable. There is some great footage in there, I loved seeing the drivers briefings and I'm glad Prost was given a lot of time to put his side over. Would reccommend it to anyone.

so is the 2h 40m version on the DVD/Bluray that is being released?

I read all the advise not to download it, but i have to admit... just couldn't resist, couldn't wait. And i think the fact that Belgium doesn't seem to have a release date for the DVD kind of justifies my choice...

Just to get a grasp on picture quality, i started watching the "sample.mkv" that came with the download. I was in tears, shattered, after 2'30" of just that sample piece.
So i wondered and digged, what it is about that man, or just a movie about him, who passed away over 15 years ago, that manages to still touch me and so many other people so deeply??

This is my two cents worth answer...

I think, back then, there was no stronger living symbol on earth for :
- passion (or dedication)
- charisma
- sweetness, kindness (and i realize this was mostly true in Brasil, while not as much outside of Brasil. And probably true as well for those F1 fans who, back then, were also die hard Senna fans)

Now, when one single individual, who happens to be a 3 time world champion in one of the top 3 mediatic sports events on this planet, also appears to reunite these 3 values or characteristics in such an outstanding and very distinguished way, it creates a bond. A bond with the audience, the public, the people and the fans obviously.
People need heroes. And such rare icons are there for us to identify ourselves to them.

Then, when such a man, is taken away from you so suddenly, so abruptly, there cannot be anything else but deep, deeply anchored, sadness.
Because of that bond, and because we've somehow identified ourselves to him, his success, dedication, etc...
it's like a piece of yourself is brutally cut away, like losing a limb almost.
But still, in a way, despite the tears, i think it's both fantastic and overwhelming to realise,
many years later, when watching just a few minutes of footage, that this sadness is still there!

It just makes you realize, again, what he meant back then.
And so, even if it has flaws, i can only be thankful for the initiative of making this movie and the passion that was put into it.

Gold,
first of all : TOP post, thank you very much, very insighful!

One extra comment, about the part i left above :

"If your humanity is greater than your driving talent (while being a triple F1 world champion), there is something special going on"

I know this is totally off-topic and irrelevant to this thread, but it's the best thing i ever read describing the difference between the 3 times WDC we are talking about, and other 4 or 7 times WDC we know as well.

Thank you very much, I really appreciate your post

I agree with you about the feelings of loss.

I remember that day and the weeks afterwards like they were yesterday. It felt so odd that he had died, that it physically felt as if the universe had split into a parallel tangential dimension, and taken the rest of us with it. Down the rabbit hole.... In this unreal reality.

Back in the real universe he was ok. He got out of the car, and the virtuoso went on to win the championship and many others.

But not here. Not in this place. In this twisted reality he was gone. That was the measure of how hard Senna's death was to accept.

It surprises me how unbelievable his death feels even to this day, decades later.

~Emre

Thank you for your posts, Gold, they are golden...

His death indeed feels strange until today, somehow as if it was not meant to be. And then again, like in the RTL interview you mention, why does the picture break up exactly in the moment he says "die"? Why did the girl not wish him Merry Christmas 1994?

Concerning the movie, I have seen the short version and it is fantastic, even away from the fact that some of Senna´s spirituality, Berger und Cobra aspects would have deserved more place. Now where do you guys get this 2h40min version from? Where can it be ordered?

I take it Senna talks a lot of Portuguese in this, does it have subtitles?

Good question... Here in Brazil the 1h05min is available for both DVD and Blu-Ray, but not the 2h40min, not even on special packs.

@ Gold

I don't know who are you but...

thank you mate

you have made my day.

Indeed, fantastic post.

I will have to get that movie.

Well said.

Gold

Couldn't agree more.

Gold

Yes, good post. I was not able to see the movie yet but i definitely will.
Weird, that i can not see a documentary about Ayrton, just when i'm alone.
I miss him every time, just as my beloved family members who are not with me anymore.
I feel extremely deep sadness every time.


Levi

was really to give chills

I was "spared" of the extensive coverage and grieving here in Brazil, as exactly on that 1st of May I was boarding a plane to Canada, where I stayed for the next 4 years.

Being away from Senna's home-country (in that time the internet was still crawling) it meant I did not follow the cascade of events that unfolded after his death.

But, yes, it does feel "unreal", even to this date.

I was there.
A strange day.
Missed the event since '91 because of work problems, although I live 20 minutes from Rivazza.
That day I was with a friend I've known for a short time. We found a place (with general admission ticket) into an occasional stand erected by Ferrari fan's villagers at Acque Minerali.
One hour before the start I fell asleep under a tree, something did not ever happened in many years. It was all very strange, I was not feeling well.
A friend lent me his 2.5 inches LCD TV with which I saw the crash.

When the tragedy happened, the thing that hurt me was the enthusiastic roar of thousands of petty people, accompanied by as many air horns.
One of the villagers shouted satisfied 'the era of the lonely rides is ended, dear Senna.'
In my mind, after watching the movement of the helmet on the TV, I saw the same Ratzenberger frames and I said to him 'You idiot! He was hurt!'

When I saw the helicopter taking off, I realized that it was time to go home.

It was good but not as good as I expected. Could have been more from races. I understand that you can't show all, but they missed out on a lot of the driving moments that made him good. I wanted much more from this movie.

What a disgrace! I just have seen Spanish trailer and it's partially dubbed! I want to hear Murray Walker's voice, not some stupid fake commentator voices. What's the point on having the questions dubbed and the Senna's answers with subtitles?

Actually, I felt the same way. Much of the footage I'd already seen. But at the same time I suppose it WAS geared towards the masses.....

the German trailer is even worse...they even dubbed Senna's voice..which will totally screws up the movie...

hello all, just got the official confirmation from universal that the movie won't get a theatrical release in belgium; the dvd wil be released after the summer.

Gio, wow. Unbelievable that you were there on that day. So odd that you were not feeling well either, but the reaction of the crowds I believe was predictable.. It meant a Ferrari got even closer to winning. Do you have any pictures or videos that you guys made that day?




Thanks so much for the appreciation of my small contribution guys. It's nice to know that the information I've gathered over the years still holds some meaning to others.



In the mean time I had a chance to see the 2h40m version.


****massive spoilers***
I thought that being an hour longer than the original it must have more footage, maybe even what I thought was missing from the original cut? A longer Senna movie?

Alas. The additional hour consists of no new footage but is comprised entirely of intersparsed talking heads. Journalists, Ron, Prost, etc. explaining their thoughts throughout. The "content" of the movie is unfortunately identical. While it is a great shame that the cut itself contains no new footage it is still a very welcome "different version" and it is truly a priveledge to hear the insights of the people involved. The private thoughts that Ron and Alain share with us particularly are amazing to listen to. On the other hand, I believe it is repeatedly the same 5 people talking. Bisignano, an English journalist, A Brazilian journalist and Ron Dennis and Prost. It can at times feel quite slim.

The only thing I personally can hope for is that further cuts really will feature a longer version of the actual movie in special/directors/unlimited editions etc. To be honest the possibility to milk the market (racing enthousiasts) is frightening. No new footage needs to be shot, it all exists out there anyway. They could release this movie once every 4 quarters with an added interview or footage of Senna and people will buy it again. Talk about low investment costs and an absurd ROI.

The cynic in me says that the costs of the rights to use the footage were high in the first place (much less than the cost of interviewing talking heads) and that I should not hold out hope for a "real" longer version of the movie and that Kapadia and Pandey would like a quick buck with maxed out returns on investment. But the optimist in me thinks that when the Senna team said they went through hours and hours of footage to distill this film to the 104m it is now that they will make at least 1 (and hopefully more) versions available that include more footage than the current original. I hope that DVD / Blueray extras will feature a lot more footage as well.

All in all I do like the movie (prefer the 104m version). I do like it but I was not amazed. In the end it comes across to me as too clinical and devoid of emotion. Like a somewhat sterile account rather than a screenplay (which Senna's story most definitely is). And that is taking into account the specific shortcomings I mentioned in the previous post, there was a -lot- more emotive footage available to choose from.

Amongst others Sid teaching Senna about medicine, Senna jumping out hitting the killswitch and holding Comas' head steady just like Sid taught him until medics arrived, etc. Senna jumping out and helping Zanardi at Eau Rouge, lol Senna hosing down the entire Monaco Royal family (the King included) with champagne and the guards freaking out. There was just so much more.

Also Imola, the whole ending section on Imola and Senna's death was devoid of any real emotion. The only real emotional punch was misheard (when Senna is on the grid at Imola and the voiceover describes that God is going to give him the greatest gift of all, himself. I read "himself" as in giving Senna the gift of being a legend. Giving him "Ayrton Senna".)

You can argue that that is an artistic choice, fair enough, I was not the one who made the movie.

But what definitely contributes to the cheap/budget feel of this production (apart from the usage of archive footage of which higher quality versions -were- available, that really is inexcusable) is that the only shots that are made to convey to a broad audience what it is that Senna actually -does- i.e. driving are edited wrongly.

The things most people will look forward to are the onboard videos. To see what exactly made Senna special. I was dying to see the infamous 1990 Monaco pole lap. You know the one where he single handedly slides the car around Loews. I was dying to see that remastered, cleaned up to the best available standards using 2010's technology, on the big screen. Alas, it is not there.

You do get great onboards from Jerez and race laps (slightly slower less impressive and not cleaned up or remastered) around Monaco, but the overriding problem is that the audio is not synced with the video. That really kills the whole "punch".

A broader audience might not realize it (I see a racing car on the screen and I hear racing car sounds) but anyone who can drive a car and is expecting to see Senna drive to see what makes his driving so special and sees an onboard at full acceleration while the sound is of a car braking very hard and downchanging will feel cheated. That really does make it feel very cheap.

All in all I do like it, it's a masterpiece in some ways (rare footage, editing, feel, atmosphere) it is magic. But in other ways it is a let down; emotional punch, storyline, choice of impact footage, incorrect onboard video and sound editing.

But that is as I see it in its current form. There is always room to correct these things, I mean; it's not like the producers have to go and film new material, the footage is all there already.

But until that happens the most emotional Senna video for me remains the 45min Antii tribute (540mb). It is fan created and is therefore free yet contains very rare footage aswell. The advantage over the 2010 documentary apart from the emotional impact is that it contains Senna's best racing footage, and contains amazing music (fomr Eye of the Tiger to Hans Zimmer to Pavarotti, it really is an amazing cut). A trailer for this can be seen here:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xihrmc_ay...e-trailer_sport

PS: To be very open I actually had quite extensive email correspondence with Asif Kapadia in 2009/2010 after the first edit of the movie had been completed and it was in post production. I had offered him review advice and help in any way that I could (free of charge). He did ask me some questions on what I thought caused the accident and my opinion of Prost and offered me an option for a prescreening where I could offer an opinion on what they had, but he never did follow through with his promise.

I wish I had been able to get a hold of Manish Pandey instead.

~Emre

Strange, I spoke to Universal Belgium this morning, and they told me it is still pending...

Sorry if it's already been mentioned, but does the film feature the Monaco '88 qualifying lap? Because for the life of me I can't find a clip of it.

Plus with the Japan "Senna" DVDs are the subtitles, by any chance, in English or is it just a case that the film is easy to follow without subs?

Thanks.

FYI, the DVD will be sold with Gazzetta dello Sport on April 6 at 12.99 euros: http://twitpic.com/4fazat

Not sure about the language though.

Is there even a clip of this available? I have never seen one from Senna in '88. I have seen his qualifying or practice laps in '85/86, '87 & '90.

Thank you, Emre, for your feedback & input. It is very well done & very much appreciated!

You could mean several things here:

1990

The most impressive onboard of Senna's (where he is sliding it one handed around Loews) is from 1990. On youtube or wherever it is often mislabeled as 88, 89 or 91. Possibly from the edit showing a '91 MP4/6 departing, and then cutting to the '90 onboard, or from the fact that the MP4/5b ran the '89 spec front wing endplates and cowling for Monaco '90)

But it is this lap (mislabeled as 1989 here):

http://vimeo.com/3164992

and here:

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v1249198jDPK8P9z


it looked impressive but I believe it was not actually the pole (correct me if I'm wrong).


His 1990 pole was apparently this lap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkCyo24fABg

Both of those are unfortunately not in the movie.



In the movie there is an onboard sequence (with out of sync audio) that claims to be 1988 (just before his crash at the entrance to the tunnel) but it is actually 1990 onboard footage (slower, non qualifying I believe, and with a weird pink/red hue). Possibly another selection of laps from the same source as above.

This is understandable from an editing point of view as Senna was not even carrying an onboard camera in the 1988 race before he crashed, you can see it as he is stepping out. But I have no idea why they used the boring onboard lap they did, the sequence was about working upto a crash, the wild, sliding onboard lap would have been a better choice, and looked far more impressive anyway.


1989

For reference this is his 1989 pole (unfortunately you can see he is not carrying an onboard camera, so no incar footage exists):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m85RHUJktOU


1988

As for 1988 I don't think there is onboard Monaco footage available, as (in the race atleast) he is not carrying an onboard. To be honest I don't remember having ever seen McLaren onboard footage from 1988. If it does exist it would have been the top rollbar type. I'd love to be corrected on this though.

There is trackside footage of the 1988 pole, (the Top Gear tribute also uses it, but again cuts to the 1990 onboard for effect).

PS: All in all, Senna was such a fast driver, the track where an onboard would show this the most was Monaco, Senna won Monaco 6 times. If he had no onboard footage from 88 or 89, they could have used the thrilling '90 one or could have dug for '91, '92 or '93 footage. Onboard footage of Senna at Monaco is critical to a movie like this, they could have dug deeper or used more exciting laps.

~Emre

Thanks for the detail. It's a shame because it would have been extraordinary to have witnessed such a special, and surreal as Senna put it, lap.

I watched with and without subtitles and although I understand a little bit of Portuguese it was much better with subtitles.
BTW there are plenty of (home made) subtitle files floating around the net though.

The fact that that lap is missing, as well as the Comaz thing, I find really gutting. I trust your review that it is still really good, and worth the cinema visit...

I'm pretty sure that onboard cameras were actually used only once during the whole 1988 season, on one of the Marches at Detroit. In 1987 there was a constant live onboard camera on Satoru Nakajima's car (ironically, Senna's teammate), and up until the end of 1988 the onboard cameras were rather large and bulky things. Only from 1989 onwards were the onboard cameras small and light enough to be used on cars fighting at the front of the field.

The pre-1989 rollbar shots are probably all done by the team at AFAVA with film cameras during practice sessions.

Absolutely,... don't forget that I am pretty unique in that I know so much about Senna, so my standards for a Senna movie will be a thousand fold what they would be for others.
The movie is magic in that it takes you back to 85-94 behind the scenes as if you were actually there. It brings those days into the present in a very beautiful and artistic way.

Don't let my detailed criticisms dissuade you, the movie is very very good. (but could be so much better still! ;)

~Emre

I was not seeing the film yet, but just for the curiosity i mention that there were two films which were very good and heart touching.

The first one is Ayrton Senna - The Right to Win.

It's very emotional to see friends of Senna, like Sid Watkins to talk about him, how highly he rated him and how he miss him.....and overally it's a very good remembering film.

The second is The lifestyle of Ayrton Senna in Brazil.

It's a totally rare kind of film.

There are no film about anybody in the race sport that is so personal and maybe it's not the best word, intimate.


I think that with these films anybody can capture a picture of a man, who was among the very best ones of history.
I seriously think that the world is a much emptier, sadder place without him.

Nelson Piquet had a practice rollbar camera for the 1988 Monaco Grand Prix; I'm not sure if anyone else did as well. During the 1989 season video review, Tony Jardine makes a reference to "the welcome return of the onboard cameras", which, as you say, suggests that 1988 had minimal onboard camera use. The March driver at Detroit was Maurício Gugelmin; I also can't think of any race appearances for the units in 1988 beyond that.

Thanks for the comprehensive information. I would like to add that onboard footage also exists of Senna at Monaco in 1985 (incorrectly identified as 1986) and 1987.

And with the bulk of those onboard cameras, in '88 there was no way that they would have been fitted to the McLarens. The team probably wouldn't have agreed to it. So the only footage of THAT lap at Monaco in '88 is only going to ever be the trackside footage buried deep in the FOM vault. (Note: I haven't seen the documentary, so I don't know whether some of those shots made it into the final cut)

No Emre, no camera that day.
As I said, it was a very odd situation. We decided to go there just the night before, we were not even sure to get the tickets.
I was going through a very difficult time in my life, and that tragedy has worsened the situation further.
He, his steadfast determination, his way of coping, were the only things that allowed me to hold an untenable situation. (look at my sign)
A year later, I changed my life.



Indeed.
I downloaded it in early 2010. Wonderful.
That guy has talent.

Your very welcome.




Yes I like those very much.

The best documentary that I have ever seen about Senna is:

"Les derniers jours d'Ayrton Senna (2005)" by Nicolas Glimois, Sunset Presse, France 5 & MTV3, English dubbed version : FINAL DAYS OF AN ICON. I can't find this online anymore.
It even includes interviews with the trackside medical people that treated him before transferring him to the helicopter, who are still emotional when giving the interview more than 10 years later. It is so powerful.
The Imola track director, etc. It was the most detailed interview documentary of Senna I have seen. It is also extremely funny as Berger is in it.


The most informative videos which contain the most facts and information is this series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laWjW0Cnd-U&feature=fvsr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM5s3PL4W_o

The FOM keeps taking parts of that down so the creator keeps making new accounts to upload them (bless him).

The most exciting (in terms of race footage and music) tribute I have seen is the 45minute Antti version. (540mb easily findable on the net). A preview of which is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F36MdNDwrU0

The most artistic, atmospheric and nuanced documentary I have seen is the 2010 movie. Although lacking in some impact in the areas mentioned on the previous page it is so very nuanced. Everything that occured is presented in exquisite artistic detail in authentic home video, super 8, beta and 35mm textured film shot at the time. All presented in a very artistic way (even including a very very slight red/pink/yellow grain colour filter over the entire film footage which adds to the feel grounding in the era).

~Emre

Have just finished watching the 2hr + version...and have to agree with this. Not quite as in-depth (nothing of Gerhard Berger at all, for instance?) as I expected...and many magical moments missed. Still enjoyed it enough...but just expected (or maybe really, really wanted) much more.

Watched it yesterday. Great documentary.

Really worth watching and all memorys are back now.

Ayrton Senna is the greatest F1 pilot in history.

For people like me, who weren't old enough to experience the period that was the late 80's early 90's, it is a truely refreshing look at Formula 1, and how that era shaped F1 today.

but apart from that, it's a true testiment to the human spirit. The whole movie, the point is rubbed in that Senna exceeded the expectations of his car, but the movie reminds you that people exceed their own expectations.

I was 3 years old when Senna died, and the atmosphere that the movie creates makes you feel like you were there, re-living it. I've never teared up for any movie, but you hear Ron Dennis describe who Senna was and the sadness you feel for the loss of one of the greatest human beings to ever walk the earth is immense.

for any sports fan, this movie is truely great.

I'll go see it 10 times if it comes out in theatres.