Rainer
Full Version: Tecno
Does anyone have a picture of the flat-12 engine made by Tecno?
Rainer
Rainer
Tecno, "The Engine That Couldn't"
Rainer,
the same, only bigger...
;)
Felix
the same, only bigger...
;)
Felix
I was about to post a new thread asking about Tecno, but found this one, which does not seem to have gone very far!
Grandprix.com gives this brief account of Tecno:-
“Gianfranco and Luciano Pederzani ran a factory in Bologna producing hydraulic pumps but in 1962 they began to look for ways to expand their engineering business and established the Tecnokart company, building go-karts. Two years later they began to build Formula 4 cars and in 1966 a Formula 3 chassis. The following year Clay Regazzoni, Mauro Nesti and Tino Brambilla began to show well in the cars and for 1968 there were customers all over Europe, a huge success with a total of 54 victories and the Italian (Franco Bernabei), French (Francois Cevert) and Swedish (Reine Wisell) championships. The same year the chassis was adapted for the Formula 2 regulations and the team ran Regazzoni and Carlo Facetti in the European Championship. There were soon F2 customers as well and success followed.
In 1970 Tecno was dominant in Formula 3 and won the European F2 title with Regazzoni. At the same time Count Gregorio Rossi of the Martini company decided that he wanted to sponsor an Italian Formula 1 team and approached the Pederzanis. Luciano designed a flat 12 engine and a fairly conventional chassis - designated the PA123 - was designed and appeared with Nanni Galli driving at the Belgian GP at Nivelles in June 1972. The cars were also driven by Derek Bell but neither driver enjoyed much success that year.
The 1973 season proved to be very disappointing. Martini - which took over the team name - insisted that a British base be established under David Yorke. He commissioned Gordon Fowell to design a new chassis. At the same time the Pederzanis hired Alan McCall to rework the PA123 in a B specification. Chris Amon was signed to be the driver in a one-car effort but the team was split by politics and technical confusion. Amon scored a point at the Belgian GP but soon afterwards the team fell apart. The Pederzanis stopped all sporting activities and Martini joined the Brabham team.”
Can anyone give me some more background on Tecno? For instance, did they stop everything else when they entered F1, or were they still running in F2/3. Isn’t there still a Tecnokart marque? Is it the same company? What was the background to the Tecno F1 engine and did they ever build any other emgines? Why did the F1 effort fail and what did the Pederzanis do afterwards? And any good old TNF trivia will of course also be welcome!
Grandprix.com gives this brief account of Tecno:-
“Gianfranco and Luciano Pederzani ran a factory in Bologna producing hydraulic pumps but in 1962 they began to look for ways to expand their engineering business and established the Tecnokart company, building go-karts. Two years later they began to build Formula 4 cars and in 1966 a Formula 3 chassis. The following year Clay Regazzoni, Mauro Nesti and Tino Brambilla began to show well in the cars and for 1968 there were customers all over Europe, a huge success with a total of 54 victories and the Italian (Franco Bernabei), French (Francois Cevert) and Swedish (Reine Wisell) championships. The same year the chassis was adapted for the Formula 2 regulations and the team ran Regazzoni and Carlo Facetti in the European Championship. There were soon F2 customers as well and success followed.
In 1970 Tecno was dominant in Formula 3 and won the European F2 title with Regazzoni. At the same time Count Gregorio Rossi of the Martini company decided that he wanted to sponsor an Italian Formula 1 team and approached the Pederzanis. Luciano designed a flat 12 engine and a fairly conventional chassis - designated the PA123 - was designed and appeared with Nanni Galli driving at the Belgian GP at Nivelles in June 1972. The cars were also driven by Derek Bell but neither driver enjoyed much success that year.
The 1973 season proved to be very disappointing. Martini - which took over the team name - insisted that a British base be established under David Yorke. He commissioned Gordon Fowell to design a new chassis. At the same time the Pederzanis hired Alan McCall to rework the PA123 in a B specification. Chris Amon was signed to be the driver in a one-car effort but the team was split by politics and technical confusion. Amon scored a point at the Belgian GP but soon afterwards the team fell apart. The Pederzanis stopped all sporting activities and Martini joined the Brabham team.”
Can anyone give me some more background on Tecno? For instance, did they stop everything else when they entered F1, or were they still running in F2/3. Isn’t there still a Tecnokart marque? Is it the same company? What was the background to the Tecno F1 engine and did they ever build any other emgines? Why did the F1 effort fail and what did the Pederzanis do afterwards? And any good old TNF trivia will of course also be welcome!
:yawn:
In reply to BRG question ??
( and what did the Pederzanis do afterwards? And any good old TNF trivia will of course also be welcome! ) .
____________________________
A company named NOVA motors in a Novara Italy ran by the Pederzanis brothers where
the gun TOYOTA engine F3 builders in the mid70,s may be that,s one of them.
In reply to BRG question ??
( and what did the Pederzanis do afterwards? And any good old TNF trivia will of course also be welcome! ) .
____________________________
A company named NOVA motors in a Novara Italy ran by the Pederzanis brothers where
the gun TOYOTA engine F3 builders in the mid70,s may be that,s one of them.
Wasn't Novamotor run by the Pedrazzanis, not the Pederzanis? Seem to remember this caused no end of confusion at the time.
BRG..a couple of other details that may be of interest.
Other than the Ducati powered F4 they also produced (in 1965) a Fiat 850-powered car for the Italian 850 formula.
43 F3 cars were produced in 1968 , powerplants included the usual Novamotor and Holbay versions although Tecno apparently also produced their own in-house engine (thus answering one of your questions). The growing success of Tecno (with the focus on high production output) was marred by the fact that it was virtually impossible to get spares for these cars.....
Other than the Ducati powered F4 they also produced (in 1965) a Fiat 850-powered car for the Italian 850 formula.
43 F3 cars were produced in 1968 , powerplants included the usual Novamotor and Holbay versions although Tecno apparently also produced their own in-house engine (thus answering one of your questions). The growing success of Tecno (with the focus on high production output) was marred by the fact that it was virtually impossible to get spares for these cars.....
Originally posted by bill moffat
Tecno apparently also produced their own in-house engine
Based on what, I wonder? The ubiquitous Ford, or something Italian? F3 has always AFAIK required a modified production engine rather than a purpose built racing engine.
Tecno apparently also produced their own in-house engine
Originally posted by BRG
Based on what, I wonder? The ubiquitous Ford, or something Italian? F3 has always AFAIK required a modified production engine rather than a purpose built racing engine.
Based on what, I wonder? The ubiquitous Ford, or something Italian? F3 has always AFAIK required a modified production engine rather than a purpose built racing engine.
Quite right..Tecno based their's on the Ford 105E engine.
AFAIK, now we come to Tecno trivia, they made their own 1971 F2 engine (still 1600 cc) based on a Ford BDA, in sharp contrast to the Cosworth FVA (and the single BMW) of the competition. The engine was said to develop 250 HP, in which case it would have been a competitive 1972 engine too...
Originally posted by Frank de Jong
The engine was said to develop 250 HP, in which case it would have been a competitive 1972 engine too...
The engine was said to develop 250 HP, in which case it would have been a competitive 1972 engine too...
A bit fanciful, maybe...
Which came first the Alfa flat-12 or the Tecno? I saw both engines at Watkins Glen and as a package they were huge compared to the DFVs.
Originally posted by David M. Kane
Which came first the Alfa flat-12 or the Tecno? I saw both engines at Watkins Glen and as a package they were huge compared to the DFVs.
Which came first the Alfa flat-12 or the Tecno? I saw both engines at Watkins Glen and as a package they were huge compared to the DFVs.
I'm pretty sure the Tecno (mid '72) made its competition debut before the Alfa (early '73). Alfa had been using 2, 2.5 and 3l V8s for a while before introducing their flat-12 in sports cars- the V8 getting as far as F1 in March and McLaren chassis too. There was a long gap between the last March-Alfa V8 and the first Brabham-Alfa flat 12, although there has been more than the odd rumour that the low, flat, wide monocoque of the Hill GH2 would've been a nice fit for a flat-12 engine...
pete
The Tecno 1 litre Formula Three engine was the probably the ultimate development of the 105E engine, running up to 13,000 rpm and utilising a very clever inlet manifold. The Formula Two engine was in effect a belt driven FVA rather than a BDA. This gave a better inlet port path and made it the class of the field, whatever power it produced.
Tecno stopped making customer cars towards the end of 1970, but a few cars crept out of Bologna later.
Spares were difficult for UK based competitors, the only solution being to trek down to the factory.
Tecnos ofcourse still make the successful a Go Kart, but the basis of the business was large hydralic valves and 'modern' furniture, both in wood and glassfibre. Indeed there was a Tecno furniture showroom in Londons Bond Street in the 1990's.
In addition to the F1 engine they made a two litre flat 8. Unkind people suggested that it was the 12 with 4 cylinders hacked off! Infact it was more subtle, indeed I still have a monocoque we built for it.
Tecno stopped making customer cars towards the end of 1970, but a few cars crept out of Bologna later.
Spares were difficult for UK based competitors, the only solution being to trek down to the factory.
Tecnos ofcourse still make the successful a Go Kart, but the basis of the business was large hydralic valves and 'modern' furniture, both in wood and glassfibre. Indeed there was a Tecno furniture showroom in Londons Bond Street in the 1990's.
In addition to the F1 engine they made a two litre flat 8. Unkind people suggested that it was the 12 with 4 cylinders hacked off! Infact it was more subtle, indeed I still have a monocoque we built for it.
RJH:
Who are the "we" you refer to? Secondly, tell us more about the flat-8, that sounds very interesting.
What did that 1000cc F3 engine sound like...a hornet?
Who are the "we" you refer to? Secondly, tell us more about the flat-8, that sounds very interesting.
What did that 1000cc F3 engine sound like...a hornet?
Originally posted by RJH
The Formula Two engine was in effect a belt driven FVA rather than a BDA. This gave a better inlet port path and made it the class of the field, whatever power it produced.
The Formula Two engine was in effect a belt driven FVA rather than a BDA. This gave a better inlet port path and made it the class of the field, whatever power it produced.
I've just checked Autodrom 1971, which states that Tecno used the Escort RS (BDA) head, belt-driven indeed. So the block was most probably still a FVA. Interesting engine.
Dave and Frank:
The 'we' is my company Lenham Hurst Racing which used to build the Lenham racing cars. GTs. Group 6 Sports Cars, F3, FF,FF2000. Small runs of the single seaters admitedly.
We also looked after and ran a variety of other cars including a bunch of Tecnos. Infact I still have one. The heads for the F2 engine were specially cast, this I know because I delivered them as unmachined blanks.
I hope this clears the picture. Its just good to talk (write) about Tecno. They were very good cars.
The 'we' is my company Lenham Hurst Racing which used to build the Lenham racing cars. GTs. Group 6 Sports Cars, F3, FF,FF2000. Small runs of the single seaters admitedly.
We also looked after and ran a variety of other cars including a bunch of Tecnos. Infact I still have one. The heads for the F2 engine were specially cast, this I know because I delivered them as unmachined blanks.
I hope this clears the picture. Its just good to talk (write) about Tecno. They were very good cars.
If I might make a small contribution...
I seem to recall that it was Tecno who introduced the waisted, flexible chassis to kart racing, when British manufacturers like Keele had been making minature space frame racing car style ones.. The flexible idea endured.
I also seem to recall that the notable feature of Tecno F2 cars was extremely heavy steering.
I seem to recall that it was Tecno who introduced the waisted, flexible chassis to kart racing, when British manufacturers like Keele had been making minature space frame racing car style ones.. The flexible idea endured.
I also seem to recall that the notable feature of Tecno F2 cars was extremely heavy steering.
[
RJM
QUOTE]I hope this clears the picture. Its just good to talk (write) about Tecno. They were very
good cars. [/QUOTE]
I would agree with you ,doe,s anybody have an photo,s of F3 & F2 cars to post.
CHEERS.
RJM
QUOTE]I hope this clears the picture. Its just good to talk (write) about Tecno. They were very
good cars. [/QUOTE]
I would agree with you ,doe,s anybody have an photo,s of F3 & F2 cars to post.
CHEERS.
A couple of titbits on the Alfa and Techno engines.
In the mid 80's, I bought most of the remnants of the Hill GH cars which, from memory, comprised 2 GH1's, a GH2 tub and a T370 tub plus lots of spares, bodywork etc.
The T370 tub puzzled me at the time because the back of the tub had been so modified that it would not accept a DFV. About a year after I bought the cars, Ian Flux who worked for the Hill team in the 70's came to see me and instanly identified the Lola tub as the one that had altered to take the Alfa engine - mystery solved.
On the Techno engine. I bought an Osella PA1 in '96 which was fitted with a 1300cc engine that was very obviously Cosworth based. Obvious visual dfference were in the top end. The cam cover was not Cosworth. it was a flat item in aluminium and machined from solid and the metering unit and drive were fixed to it in the normal BD way. The injection slides were again machined from solid and opened vertically unlike the Lucas system which opens laterally. The block was an FVA that been bored and linered to take 87.7mm pistons and it used FVC rods and a very short stroke crank, I imagine it revved like ****. At the time, I had no idea who make these elaborate mods until I came across some old Techno F2 cars in Italy and low and behold, the engines were visually identical, although the the C.C. would have been different. I still have most of this engine.
In the mid 80's, I bought most of the remnants of the Hill GH cars which, from memory, comprised 2 GH1's, a GH2 tub and a T370 tub plus lots of spares, bodywork etc.
The T370 tub puzzled me at the time because the back of the tub had been so modified that it would not accept a DFV. About a year after I bought the cars, Ian Flux who worked for the Hill team in the 70's came to see me and instanly identified the Lola tub as the one that had altered to take the Alfa engine - mystery solved.
On the Techno engine. I bought an Osella PA1 in '96 which was fitted with a 1300cc engine that was very obviously Cosworth based. Obvious visual dfference were in the top end. The cam cover was not Cosworth. it was a flat item in aluminium and machined from solid and the metering unit and drive were fixed to it in the normal BD way. The injection slides were again machined from solid and opened vertically unlike the Lucas system which opens laterally. The block was an FVA that been bored and linered to take 87.7mm pistons and it used FVC rods and a very short stroke crank, I imagine it revved like ****. At the time, I had no idea who make these elaborate mods until I came across some old Techno F2 cars in Italy and low and behold, the engines were visually identical, although the the C.C. would have been different. I still have most of this engine.
Originally posted by Scuderia Pinguino
A couple of titbits on the Alfa and Techno engines.
In the mid 80's, I bought most of the remnants of the Hill GH cars which, from memory, comprised 2 GH1's, a GH2 tub and a T370 tub plus lots of spares, bodywork etc.
The T370 tub puzzled me at the time because the back of the tub had been so modified that it would not accept a DFV. About a year after I bought the cars, Ian Flux who worked for the Hill team in the 70's came to see me and instanly identified the Lola tub as the one that had altered to take the Alfa engine - mystery solved.
A couple of titbits on the Alfa and Techno engines.
In the mid 80's, I bought most of the remnants of the Hill GH cars which, from memory, comprised 2 GH1's, a GH2 tub and a T370 tub plus lots of spares, bodywork etc.
The T370 tub puzzled me at the time because the back of the tub had been so modified that it would not accept a DFV. About a year after I bought the cars, Ian Flux who worked for the Hill team in the 70's came to see me and instanly identified the Lola tub as the one that had altered to take the Alfa engine - mystery solved.
Splendid stuff - thanks very much for confirming this longstanding rumour! Tony Brise in a Hill-Alfa - now there's a might-have-been
pete
Does any of you know if the Pederzani brither are still here ? Or have any contact to them ?
Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Does any of you know if the Pederzani brither are still here ? Or have any contact to them ?
Does any of you know if the Pederzani brither are still here ? Or have any contact to them ? Gianfranco is. He lives in Bologna (or so I'm aware) and is now 74.
Luciano died on the 10th January 1987, in Modena, aged only 61.
Thanks Richie !
Apologies if this has been covered somewhere else but I did a search and didn't find much.
I knew a lot more about the F3 and other cars than I did about F1 but it is very interesting.
I took a look at Allen Brown's ORC and in 1972 there were 3 Tecno F1 chassis out there - PA123/1, PA123/2 and PA123/5.
In 1973, there was another one car - PA123/6. I guess an updated and later spec car.
Firstly, any idea why there was a skip in chassis numbers with 3 and 4 missed? Or were perhaps these chassis run in a different spec and maybe therefore different formula?
I'm sure there is a good explaination of this and we all know the fun and games that went on with chassis numbers for many reasons (tax, etc) but having a brief look around this is one I just don't understand. I'm sure, as always, this is the place to find the answer.
Also, was the engine really a truly new and in-house effort? It seems quite amazing that they would undertake something like that when the Cosworth DFV was there and perhaps other options. Was it the archilles heel of the car and was it at all competitive? The power numbers from it seem impressive but who knows if they are real!
Roger
I knew a lot more about the F3 and other cars than I did about F1 but it is very interesting.
I took a look at Allen Brown's ORC and in 1972 there were 3 Tecno F1 chassis out there - PA123/1, PA123/2 and PA123/5.
In 1973, there was another one car - PA123/6. I guess an updated and later spec car.
Firstly, any idea why there was a skip in chassis numbers with 3 and 4 missed? Or were perhaps these chassis run in a different spec and maybe therefore different formula?
I'm sure there is a good explaination of this and we all know the fun and games that went on with chassis numbers for many reasons (tax, etc) but having a brief look around this is one I just don't understand. I'm sure, as always, this is the place to find the answer.
Also, was the engine really a truly new and in-house effort? It seems quite amazing that they would undertake something like that when the Cosworth DFV was there and perhaps other options. Was it the archilles heel of the car and was it at all competitive? The power numbers from it seem impressive but who knows if they are real!
Roger
Some Tecno artwork I have posted elsewhere
Bruno Betti's cutaway
Werner Bührer's drawing from his 1972 F1 series
Bührer’s drawing of PA123 with side view of the Goral E731
In the yearly Grand Prix season review in Road&Track magazine, Werner Bührer sketched all of the cars for the ’72 review. Here his rendering of the Tecno chassis and car.
Bruno Betti's cutaway
Werner Bührer's drawing from his 1972 F1 series
Bührer’s drawing of PA123 with side view of the Goral E731
In the yearly Grand Prix season review in Road&Track magazine, Werner Bührer sketched all of the cars for the ’72 review. Here his rendering of the Tecno chassis and car.
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