sosidge
May 11 2010, 09:25
This past GP was (I think) the first one where there was contact between one of the new teams and a lapping car.
Firstly, I'm pleased it has taken so long for it to happen. Secondly, I think the new teams have brought it upon themselves by driving too slowly when the blue flags are shown.
A few incidents from Barcelona demonstrated this...
1) The Hamilton/Vettel battle. The Virgin was a long way ahead at the end of the straight, barely in shot as Hamilton accelerated out of the pits. Yet he lifted off so much that he had almost been passed before the apex and had nowhere to go except off the track to the inside.
2) Chandhok gave Schumacher and Button room to lap, but had run out of track and had to get back onto the line. Massa meanwhile was not close enough to challenge Button, yet still outbraked himself - probably on the assumption that Chandhok would get out of his way regardless - and contact was inevitable.
3) Algy chopped in on Chandhok. Dumb move - but is it another reflection of an attitude among the established teams that the Formula 1B cars will always get out of their way?
I don't know what has been said at drivers briefings this season - but my view is that the new teams need to keep running at their normal pace and leave room on the inside at corner entry for the lapping cars. That is normal behaviour for lapped traffic, whether they are a second a lap slower or five seconds a lap slower.
This routine of lifting off as soon as the blue flags/are waved, and parking the car mid-corner until the leaders have gone by helps nobody. It's stopping the new teams from running a competitive race, and it's indulging the established teams' belief that they should be let through immediately, regardless of circumstance.
Buttoneer
May 11 2010, 09:31
The more they are criticised the more they will be wary. It's a difficult balance for the 'monkeys at the back' IMO. It's compounded by the fact that most of them are new to the sport. I'm not sure I've seen problems with Kovi (obviously none this weekend) and Trulli so far.
Tenmantaylor
May 11 2010, 09:35
The worst incident was the Virgin (Di Grassi?) literally parked on the apex of T1 as Hamilton and Vettel approached at roughly x3 the speed. That was much more dangerous than just maintaining your speed and holding them up until T3 when it would have been easier and safer to let them through.
ForeverF1
May 11 2010, 09:39
An easy answer to this is to remove the blue flag rule, leave the one who is on the racing line and force the faster driver to find a way past whilst still defending his position.
Fastcake
May 11 2010, 13:20
QUOTE (Buttoneer @ May 11 2010, 10:31)

The more they are criticised the more they will be wary. It's a difficult balance for the 'monkeys at the back' IMO. It's compounded by the fact that most of them are new to the sport. I'm not sure I've seen problems with Kovi (obviously none this weekend) and Trulli so far.
This, new teams and drivers coupled with intense criticism from several of the front teams means they're practically forced to leap out of the way regardless of position as they are lapped.
Hairpin
May 11 2010, 13:31
QUOTE (ForeverF1 @ May 11 2010, 11:39)

An easy answer to this is to remove the blue flag rule, leave the one who is on the racing line and force the faster driver to find a way past whilst still defending his position.
I agree with you there. Partly anyway, I do not think they should not remove it altogether, but the should not start waving it as soon as an faster car is in sight. If the faster car has been behind for a some corners and the slower driver refuse to give way, go ahead with the blue flag, but the way it works now can actually be dangerous.
The biggest danger is when the lapped car is not driving in a predictable manner and if the get the blue flag to early they might not be predictable. They see the flag but not the faster car and starts to hesitate if they should slow down before next corner or wait another one. Meanwhile the faster car thinks "he get's out of the way" and driver as if the Virgin was made of air.
Watching the video from the di Grassi/Hamilton/Vettel incident, LdG clearly got two blue flags. One from the control tower between the pit lane and track, one from the left side of track. There was also two blue flags from the right side of the track, from which first was certainly for Hamilton (who was coming from the pits, so they warned him about cars which were driving on the track), the second I can't say whether it was for Hamilton or di Grassi.
The thing here is that watching the video, I can identify di Grassi touching the kerb in the final corner when Hamilton's pit clock shows 13.5. When Vettel does the same, the clock is at 16.9. So, basically he has to slow three and half seconds in that straight only, because if you go past three blue flags, you risk to be penalized. The blue flag rules are too strict now.
Muz Bee
May 11 2010, 20:52
The new teams are in the region of 5 seconds a lap off the pace. At that pace the amount they delay a leader per corner is of the order of 0.5 up to 1.0 through a long fast curve. maximum. The real problem is if the lapped driver behaves in an unpredictable manner - as we have been seeing with some of them - there is potential for a catastrophic accident. As long as I have been involved with racing the onus has been on the lapped car/bike to stay on a normal type of line until they can see the faster car/bike is in a position to take advantage of a move off the line. Waiting down on the inside of a corner's braking zone doing 40% of racing speed as I saw one of the Virgins (

) do at Spain is downright dangerous. Changing lines mid corner is also dangerous as is slowing BEFORE the overtaking car is ready to pass. A little inexperience at play here I think and the drivers need to relax a tiny bit - they are looking paranoid to my eye,m in which case they are a greater danger. Hopefully they will get some help before Monaco because there is going to be a lot of lapping there with streams of fast cars being let through.
The quicker they can get back on line and up to speed the less time they will lose and the less lapping will be likely. At the moment you'd have to say the risk of a bad accident are high.
KateLM
May 11 2010, 22:18
QUOTE (Buttoneer @ May 11 2010, 10:31)

The more they are criticised the more they will be wary. It's a difficult balance for the 'monkeys at the back' IMO. It's compounded by the fact that most of them are new to the sport. I'm not sure I've seen problems with Kovi (obviously none this weekend) and Trulli so far.
There was that confusion between Vettel and Trulli under yellow flags in Malaysia but no, neither Lotus has caused contact so far.
Di Grassi made a bit of a blunder by parking on the apex, though you could put that down to both inexperience and being confused about how many drivers were approaching.
However, I don't think Chandhok was at fault in either of the incidents he was involved in, which makes me think that perhaps that some the drivers in the established teams also need to adjust their lapping techniques with the much slower cars that perhaps they aren't used to.
rolf123
May 11 2010, 22:27
The flag situation is ridiculous and only exists because without it, lapping cars would never be able to lap! The dirty air zone is so huge that the cars behind cannot overtake easily. That's why this problem didn't exist in F1 15 years ago and doesn't appear in any other motor racing series.
Kooper
May 11 2010, 22:34
I do think the new teams are backing off too much, sometime dangerously.
Anybody remember what year & driver it was at Sepang (in the double apex T7-T8 corners) a Minardi saw the red Schumacher approaching and made way, completely running off the track?
Hairpin
May 11 2010, 22:47
QUOTE (rolf123 @ May 12 2010, 00:27)

The flag situation is ridiculous and only exists because without it, lapping cars would never be able to lap! The dirty air zone is so huge that the cars behind cannot overtake easily. That's why this problem didn't exist in F1 15 years ago and doesn't appear in any other motor racing series.
But even without blue flags most drivers will realize that they are being lapped and can by their own initiative make life a bit easier for everyone by letting the car through at a convenient place. But if the get three flags within two corners they are bound to get a bit stressed, specially if there is many cars lapping them. My guess is that their will be blue flags out at each post more or less constantly at Monaco. We can only hope it all goes well.
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