Will be fun if Ferrari and RBR pass the test and McLaren doesn't

And why they don't change the tests already at Spa this weekend? They had one month to think about that, it gives unfair advantage to RBR and Ferrari for another race... Stupid FIA.

Actuall this could complety change the order...

Come Monza Force India - Mercedes - Williams or Renault may be light years ahead.

Well you can imagine any silly thing with an IF

McLaren & Mercedes 2 - Red Bull & Ferrari 0

Now it´s not enough one test! Balanced championship all the way!

I think one days notice for a major construction change is a bit short - don't you?

The FIA have had a month to think about this/look at footage/be canvassed by Martin Whitmarsh etc. so these tests will have been well thought out. It's a chance to rein in a lot of the rule-bending in the cars.

Probably thay have spent this month thinking about how to solve the issue and realized that this is the way to go?

Was it unfair to allow the DDD for another year and a half or the F-duct for almost a year to?

Sounds to me like the FIA are pretty sure something is going on that is against 3.15 that they want to prevent and that they think that what they are introducing in Spa won't achieve that.

Yes because those things are allowed by the regs as written for those seasons.

Felxible bodywork is an entirely different kettle of fish because 3.17 provides a process under which the regulations should be changed in a season. There's a very strong argument that the criteria to produce those changes (suspicion that 3.15 is not being respected) have been met.

They do seem to be checking several key areas don't they. Wonder what's taken them so long. Redbull dominance about to end?

If you were being cynical, you might suggest they were waiting for Red Bull and Ferrari to close the points gap before they closed their performance advantage. If they have picked on the important part for Monza to result in a change in front end for Ferrari/Red Bull, and if that does result in the top 3 cars having very even performance, we could be in for a fantastic end to the championship.

Alternatively, it's been the building of publicity and pressure that's forced them to act. They were resistant to it when it was just the Heath photographs but when FOM started running all those super slo-mos in the feed of "front wing analysis" and Merc and Mac were making statements to the press and requesting clarifications, the ability for the FIA to say "we have no suspicion that 3.15 isn't being respected" really disapeared and forced them to act.

I also think that giving the teams a fair chunk of warning of any change is characteristic of Todt's FIA. Whilst I could see Mosley's FIA changing the test at incredibly short notice to try and catch out a team (with the potential for a DQ from a race weekend or other penalty), Todt's FIA seems to like to see everything sorted amicably with the minimum of controversy (see the Merc appeal over Monaco, conclusion to the Briatore matter as a couple of examples).

yep, that much as being obvious...a rule was clearly being broken.

Lets just hope its not too late before they are finally able to get to the bottom of the flex and ban it. It would suck if a juiced up car (genius but illegal) ends up winning the titles

Even RedBull knew they were doing something that was very questionable at best.... they denied the car was flexing until it became too obvious to the naked eye

Flexi-wings like most other belatedly banned flexiparts were built to break the rules but pass the tests...which is why its being compared to doping. Its another textbook case of cheating in sports.

The sooner everyone is back on the same playing field the better for the sport. I know the RB6 n Ferrari will be fast anyway.... but like MW said, it was a two tier championship in the last race...with so many car parts homologated nowadays, you dont get such an advantage as the RB6 had if you aint playing dirty.

The press just wont come out and say it cos they like the underdog story (however manufactured) and they've being finning for some other car to permanently break the Mclaren/Ferrari stranglehold.

Despite the rolly eyes, you must remember that the test change for flexy floors in 2007 caught McLaren as well? There is a fair chance that most teams are going to have to do some tweaks here and there.

Did it? AFAIK it was BMW and Ferrari.

Indeed. The only questions are

1) Do they really know what they are looking for, or is this a 'scare' tactic?
2) Why wait until Monza?

They both had the same type of stay in place, yes, but my recollection is that most teams had to make adjustments to their stays to ensure they met the new test, including McLaren..

it seems very specific things are being looked at now which suggests they do understand what the teams are doing. to test it this weekend you could be in a position where you'd have to stop 2 teams racing, so they give them until monza to fix it

everyone had to change as it was a massive change in the test

Indeed. Found the article. New floor tests to affect all teams.


If the new tests are different enough, it's going to create work across the paddock. The only difference for McLaren is that it is unlikely to change the way the car works (in aero terms) because the concept doesn't rely on the flexy wing as it appears to do for Red Bull.

It hit McLaren far less than Ferrari. Ferrari had developed their whole car around it, it took them a long time to recover.

This time there's no reason at all to think McLaren will suffer. Lots of posts have been moaning that McLaren have complained exactly because they haven't followed suit, and that's 100% obvious looking at the cars.

So it was just another mindless IF with no basis, like saying it would be funny IF all the wheel fell off. Hence the well-deserved

Yeah, my point being that FIA clearly don't want DDD:s, F-duct:s or flexible bodywork. But as all these inventions has passed the FIA scrutineering and the teams have to be given reasonable time to rebuild their cars for the new tests. So if the DDD got a year and a half and the F-duct about a year you can arguably say that it's not unfair RBR and Ferrari (and even all others teams) get more than two days to rebuild their cars for a completely new test.

Yea the fexl wing cars could suffer a lot if this does indeed stop it form happening. IIRC Andy said the front wing dictates the flow over the car ans is one of the most sensitive parts of the car to change - so the new test could effect the whole designe concept of the car.

There are going to be an awful lot of engineering staff fretting about just what the new tests -- and the allowable test limits -- are going to be.


Very nice and amicable to say "fix it by Monza".
Not so nice to keep the new test (and the permitted deflection limits) a secret.

The way I read it is that Whiting (eventually) has realised that people have been designing around his tests.
He's been having his plonker pulled and now its time to turn the tables ...




Maybe they are going to establish the limits based on what they find.
If one or two designs deflect by (say) 15 mm and no others deflect by more than 5 mm, then the FIA would have some justification for imposing a limit at about the 6 mm mark - ie make the required stiffness easily achievable by conventional engineering.
Not that that would be popular with the teams involved, but if their "bodywork" is found to be dramatically more flexy than the others, I don't think they have any real cause for complaint. Might nevertheless cause The Horse Whisperer's blood pressure to go off the scale though.

So the Thursday Scrutineering is over. I haven't heard anything. Did Red Bull pass the new test?

Well they claim the skid block redesign won't affect them much either.

"I can't say it will affect us any more or less than any other team. I haven't had a chance to look at the regulation in detail, and you would have to have a chat with Adrian [Newey, technical chief] about that, but I don't think it poses us any major concerns."

If you were going to say the least you could, because it means a huge setback, that's about what you'd say. Like he really hasn't looked in detail and doesn't know

They picked the wrong tracks to do it on though. Yeah the lowest downforce tracks on the calendar, well done. Would've been better if they did this before Silverstone or Hungary where it gave them nearly a second in advantage. It's been known for ages. Scarbs has been talking about it for a long time.

What if Ferrari and Red Bull have found a way to flex the floor without fixtures or springs? I'm sure that would piss Mr. Whitmarsh and Mr. Whiting off even more...

In any event, I'm sure the engineers are already hard at work trying to exploit the new skid block regs. I'm sorry to say this but Mclaren just seem lost in comparison to Red Bull and Ferrari at present. What happened to the development they are so renowned for? I would hate to see them drop out of the title race, and I'm being really genuine here. I'm hoping for a close fight.

Charlie hasn't even revealed what the tests are going to be. That means he's going to do whatever he has to do to bring them back in line with 3.15. You could well be right that he's pissed with the way Newey's been behaving, but that's bad news not good.

The floors won't be allowed to flex any more.

That means the McLaren concept will come back into contention.

What if they don't?
You don't know what's going on and yet you're here trying to defend them and attack mclaren....
Right...

Guys, keep the comments on topic and not about other posters. Thanks.

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Taking this from Scarbs article on splitters:

http://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/2010/0...xing_floor2.jpg - Large image so it's not embedded

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If they can only have two sections longer than 1 metre, I don't see how they're going to get the splitter to 'flex' - they're just using a standard plank of wood. I'm pretty sure no team have (or are even allowed to have) a splitter longer than 1 metre so that's out of the window, surely.

But mainly I don't understand how they can let the skid block bang on the floor without causing excessive wear (by FIA standards) in the first place, I think there's more to it than this.

I'm not defending or attacking anybody.

All I'm saying is that Red Bull are pretty bullish about their car design. Make of it what you want. Mclaren genuinely seem lost and I can understand their fans enthusiasm with regard to the clarification but the flexi floor, or what ever the hell it is, is not the only thing contributing to their speed. Everybody will have to change their skid blocks and it wouldn't surprise me if Mclaren still find themselves behind. What are you going to wish for then?

The longer skid blocks don't make any difference unless the floor is flexi.

If the floor doesn't flex the splitter doesn't lift (afaik) and so the front wing can't drop much. Then the FWEP's can't reach the ground and the whole recipe is toast.

IF the floor is flexi; which the Mac's isn't.

So your thinking is distinctly wishful

Help!

Maybe I am missing something. Today is Thursday, this is the day that the bulk of the scrutineering is done. Wasn't today the day they were going to test the front wings with the extra load? I understand that the FIA uped the ante for Monza but it seems that Red Bull (and everybody else) passed the new weight tests for the front wings. Isn't that big?

Maybe, but you won't know until the cars hit the track. It's possible the wings have not been changed, but they could also have been beefed up to meet the new requirements.

No. I raised a hypothetical scenario... Read my post properly. Mclaren and their fans are the ones being wishful and overly sensitive.

You should start reading everything properly. Then you can tune in to the technical realities and stop this fantasy that the non-flexi McLaren is going to suffer the same as the flexi cars, to enforcement of the no-flex rules.

Flex is out after this race. That's gonna bring the cars back together.

Holy moly... I did not say that everybody is going to be affected the same way. I just said everybody has to make adjustments to their skid blocks... Including Mclaren. You are the one harbouring fantasies about Mclaren being right on the pace at Monza because there will be no more flexing. Read this... Or please have your dad explain it to you. THE FLEXING IS NOT THE SOLE REASON FOR FERRARI AND RED BULL'S SPEED.

Btw, sole means only.

How do you know????

If you understood it at all you'd know the flexing is key to the whole RBR concept, as I've explained. Without it they can't drop the FW or rake the floor. You'd know the short skid blocks are there to allow bending. Because skid blocks themselves do not bend. Since the Mac floor does not bend it doesn't make any difference to them how long the skid blocks are.

Talking about 'my dad' doesn't help your credibility btw. It's obvious you have no idea what's going on but are pretending otherwise, for the pleasure of poking criticism at McLaren while posing as a sporting fan; shouting and silly insults don't improve things for you.

Looks thike the wing is flexing nowhere near to what it was. Through the high-speed corners it's well off the deck.

That would be a bonus .

Ant at the beginning of the BBC programme was talking about the FW mounting pillars being trick, lifting the inside FWEP over kerbs, as we've seen.

Also something about the rear floor/diffuser 'ballooning' to change ride height. I think, haven't replayed it yet. Anyone heard anything about that?

Ant said that he's spoke to various people from the other teams and they've all figured out how Red Bull have been doing it apparently. Also, IMO Horner sounded quite bitter in his interview about the situation too - whilst denying that they've had to change anything on the car to satisfy the new tests.


Hmmmmmmm.......

The wing was never going to flex as much in Monza and Spa ... wait till Singapore then you 'll see if anything changed

Eh? If you can get your FWEPs on the deck you do so, no matter what the track characteristics.

Definatly! we'd see in the high speed corners.. however there could be a lot more ride height due tio the rain and eu rouge

I agree. Red Bull has to take a lot of downforce off the car for an optimum Spa set-up. Even the front wing is in a less downforce configuration.

McLaren also trimmed down the inner parts of the cascades, to make the front wing less draggy (which provides less downforce this way).

You'd still want flex due to the simple fact that the wing becomes more efficient as the FWEPs get closer to the ground - and as has been said, you'd defo see it through the high speed corners... low AoA or not.

I can't wait for the day the new tests are introduced... without affecting the pecking order in the slightest.