that's just one of the examples, more examples, car broken in bahrein, no dinners after victories, overpressure on tyres, allowing lewis to open a FIA investigation unpunished twice.., the problem was dennis

just a significant image, germany 2007...earlier than hungary, relationship between fernando and dennis...inexistent and broken already, fernando avoids him as much as he can

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWRvhA0YPgY...feature=related

Mmm, sounds a little bit familiar, not the 'unnecessary encounters' tho. Suspect it's half the real story. Was it that the team didn't want that much money at stake or something? Surely it wasn't out of sheer horridness...

In that video we see Ron trying to be nice to Fernando and getting some pure rudeness back.

No link then to the Heikki claim?

british press called such encounters bribery

Isnt this hypocrite? To state 3 lines without any evidence, and then! talking about assumptions. Where is this world going ...

I've shared evidence here before, look them up plz

This is so much ado about nothing I can't believe it. Two guys who lost in an F1 season 3 years ago. One of them lost by more than the other because there was terrible conspiracy against him. What a joke.

Is F1 so low in talent these days that no one has anything to talk about except a season from 3 years ago? I find the "poor Alonso as victim" crap the most entertaining, what with that the guy having been involved in damn near every shady thing that has happened in F1 over last several years. And at same time has gotten nothing but much worse results than his successor now is getting at Renault in much more poorly funded car...

F1 needs a quality infusion. Right now it's such a joke. Look how all that anyone has to talk about is how much of a poor little victim of evil conspiracies a driver who did well in two seasons with drastically superior car to everyone else and has otherwise gotten nothing but crap results other than one 3rd (2007). Gimme a break.

The more I see this the more I wonder if both Alonso and Hamilton aren't just good for these days but ultimately nothing very special at all in F1 history. They're not that fast. They both crash all the time. They both bitch and lie all the time. And they're both way more excuses than results. If they're good they should shutup and drive. Likewise, if they're good their fanatics should shutup and just watch them drive until the results come in. The way things are right now, it just looks like a bunch of pathetic crap that's thoroughly uninteresting and completely off-putting.

Especially all this stuff about poor innocent Alonso getting mistreated. At this point, though I expect him to end the season having probably ended up having the best overall car of the year, I bet he'll get a 3rd or something in WDC. To be honest I think he's going to turn out the worst #1 Ferrari driver in ages. So far his only race win is from a Red Bull car breaking. If it wasn't for Santander I think it'd be safe to say the his seat for next year would be open just like it was after his first year at McL. Even in his worst year, Alonso's predecessor had two ungifted wins within the first 4 races. And some say he's gone now because of what his results were that year.

That clip doesnt show anything, we dont know how long Alonso was pushing already for a #1 status ... Useless clip.

unless you are retarted which I don't think so, this video clearly shows fernando doesn't want to talk to dennis avoid him and doesn't even look at him, let alone embrace him or share the victory

His only 2 wins in that year because after that he didn't win anything anymore in 2008 with the best car on the grid. Not that impressive at all. I like Kimi, but I think he was really a disappointment that year compared to Massa.

In 2007 Alonso never thanked his own crew in front of the camera's/press conference, he was bitter all the time.

nothing to thank really, or you expected fernando to thanks dennis "we were racing fernando"

Fernando is a very fast and consistent driver, but the truth is that he hasn't been always the smarter and most tactical driver/politic out of the track.

Indeed, if FA had played in a little bit more intelligent manner I'm sure he'd have at least one more championship.

Oto and related FAns, please stop making your case, it is clear that Alonso behavior wasn't optimal for him.

This is how I saw things at the time and based on the information that was going around at the time. I cant provide links, it was an impression I got (with assumptions).

Schumacher used to reward his team when he won. I heard that Alonso did the same (possibly doing a tried and tested method ala Schumacher). So he'd celebrate with them, and it was personal. At Mclaren, due to their driver policy, this wasn't allowed as everything had to be equal. I got the impression Alonso was out of his comfort zone, he might have felt uncomfortable, or not even have known how to share his win with the team. Alonso is known to be quite shy, so if he couldn't share his victories with his team, he may have appeared fairly aloof and arrogant. This would have hindered the bonding required with his mechanics on a more personal level. Hamilton is more outgoing and already knew the team. Hamilton would have been in a more comfortable position to celebrate with the team as he had no prior way of doing things in F1. So one side of the garage is happy and jokey, the other is a bit quieter. At that point, Alonso is already at a psychological disadvantage. The rest is well documented.

It doesn't mean that he was mis-treat at Mclaren, it was just a clash of working methods that did not suit Alonso. The marriage was always going to end up in divorce sooner rather than later, regardless of his teammate. It is a natural part of human nature to see that if other people are bonding well and you are not, then you start to question yourself and others around you.

The language issue does not come into play because Renault are an English speaking team, as are Mclaren. Both working environments use English as also it is at Ferrari.

Even before Hungary, it was plainly obvious to see something was not right. Alonso was not himself. I cant explain it but there was something missing. It was easier to see for someone that was supporting the main rival team. I went from hating him to feeling sorry for him and I didn't know why. Obviously now we know that there was a lot more going on behind the scenes. That is no disrespect to either Alonso or Mclaren.

Now as I said, I'm not saying it is true. I'm basing it on the snippets of info that we did get and analysing the potential issues based upon studying Psychology. Also combined with what we do know about the drivers personalities (which admittedly is not a lot).

As to the future. The way Ferrari work is not that easy to interpret these days. If the atmosphere is more suited to his liking, then it will work well. If not it wont. He does have the advantage of Fisi though. Fisi has been with Ferrari for nearly a year now, and knows how it works. He's driven for the team and therefore as his ex-teammate at Renault, it will help Alonso a lot to feel more at home. But we dont know if Alonso is happy at Ferrari. He might not be getting on with everyone, Massa was the one that was expected to be the problem. The fact that Massa has been re-signed for another 2 years suggests that things cant be that bad between them at the moment. But things can change, Red Bull team issues for instance.

Lewis Hamilton - worse strategy in first 4 races, being told before season that he is only expected to work 1000 hours on simulator and be fit for each race (implicitly telling him that he is #2), very weird Nurburing car failure that almost lead to severe injury, McLaren protecting Alonso in front of FIA in Hungary, Alonso and Pedro using and not sharing Ferrari data with Hamilton probably with knowledge of at least some other ppl from McLaren, very weird tyre failure in Monza (i think), being left out on destroyed tyres in China, weird car problem in Brazil.

One can easily 'prove' that Hamilton was sabotaged throughout the season.

I don't think so, I think McLaren tried to do best job with both drivers though.

P.S. Thing with McLaren is that they obviously try to have both their drivers strong. Anyone remember Kimi/Montoya duo? McLaren were developing some parts specifically for Montoya, even though Ron and Montoya weren't best pals in the world. Anyone remembering 2008? McLaren did everything they could to accomodate HK to team as soon as possible and only when he proved that he is simply not on McLaren level did they turn him to #2. This season is no different. In fact, this season we even have some conspiracy theories in Lewis vs. Jenson thread suggesting that Lewis is being mistreated by McLaren. I think its all fanboy BS talk. What happened this season is that they tried to help integrate Jenson ASAP into team, and part of that was probably to give some more experienced ppl to work with him. This is the way things obviously go in McLaren - they'll try to take care of both drivers rather than favoring one. And this is what sometimes may be interpreted by some people as favoring 'other driver'. But point is - Alonso overreacted, it could be mentality difference - as we can see with Hamilton/Button even with all errors that Hamiltons side of garage / pit is making - Hamilton never ever even hinted that he is being mistreated by McLaren.

well balanced post,
2 points, in renault italian was the predominant language as it's in ferrari,
and fernando is extremely happy in ferrari, italians and spanish get on very well, our personalities and mentalities are pretty common, he adores the team and they adore him, he loves the latin passion behind everything. Just recently on BBC confirmed what had been said before, once his contract is over in ferrari, he'll retire from f1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKDSIab1ZWE...eos=j5SY0JRjrr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fv5hi9u1x8...feature=related
This is what happens when Alonso doesn't get what he wants!

what is it? I can't see it

Hey, how about we talk about it all day every day for the next four years and see what kind of conspiracy theories we can come up about it? Kimi should have gotten 2nd instead of 3rd in WDC (just like Alonso in 2007!) that year because Ferrari SABOTAGED him and PSYCHOLOGICALLY TERRORIZED him on purpose because they messed up his car's suspension design that caused him to lose the points lead by not scoring any points for 4 raced in row until they changed the suspension back when Kimi was driving to support Massa blah blah blah let's talk about it and only have that one thing to talk about Raikkonen for the next four years. It was obviously all big conspiracy to keep Raikkonen from being able to outperform Massa and so they could get rid of driver who won the WDC the year before. Both Ferrari and McL are evil! Great idea huh?

Actually it would be retarded. Just like this thread has become. This thread is even worse because Kimi has retired but Alonso has still been driving for the last 3 years and still drives today yet all that anyone talking about is that he should have gotten 2nd in 2007 instead of 3rd

Corrected. Sorry. I meant to say was:

Mistakes were made by both sides. Alonso, Hamilton and McLaren all ended up losers because of the "lack of harmony". I think there is
very little point in arguing based on "perceived" injustice(s) done to Alonso-. The bottom line is that 2007 was not a great year both for Alonso and McLaren team. I doubt whether they deliberately chose to lose!

It was when poor Fernando got a run on Lewis at Indy, after Lewis was held up by Trulli, but was easily held off.

So next time round he went close to he pitwall waving his fist. Then denied it was about that.

That.

it never ceases to amaze me why some of you complain about how stupidly this topic turns over and yet keep contributing labelling yourself

you tell me what happens there

The working language in Ferrari is English. That is one of the criteria to work for Ferrari. The young driver programmes have English as an essential part of their studies. It is probably because it is easier to intergrate people from other teams to have one common language. Now office gossip language is a different matter.

Also, remember he is still in the honeymoon period in Ferrari. And from what we can see it is lasting slightly longer than it did at Mclaren, but that is what we are seeing from the outside. As I said on my previous post though, it helps having one of his best friends and ex teammate starting in the team first to help with the transition.

that is exactly what happened in renault too, the working side used english, personal matters are in italian though, that's why fernando felt comfy in renault and in ferrari won't be different.

I almost cry after seeing this video

What would it take to get you to talk about something other than Alonso's 3rd place several years ago? Do you not think that he has the chance of ever doing better again? Are you not interested at all in the F1 that is going on right now with Alonso maybe driving the overall best car on grid? That's what most driver threads are focused on -- the present and future of what the driver is doing. Look at the Kimi thread for example since it is the most popular other driver thread (i.e., it's the most active one). He just almost won a rally and there is all kinds of interviews, videos, photos, discussion, etc just like there has been all year. There's certainly no talk about some season years ago like his worst one where he got 3rd place just like Alonso.

Some of us just wish the Alonso thread to have some substance and to be current and don't like all the hijacking of thread back to conspiracy theories in 2007. Why do you dislike this so much?

I won't keep arguing.

When Alonso wins this year WDC it will be 3 to 1 and I won't care if you say Ferrari was faster...

Look at 0:38 - 0:39. He shakes his right fist at his team. Real mature Alonso.. But Im sure you have an elaborate excuse for his behaviour as usual.

I almost threw up listening to Flabbio talk about how sexy he is. WTF..there are serious hero worship issues around this guy.

The official end of the honeymoon with Ferrari is usually announced in the pages of AutoSprint.

Thank you. Any chance you could not obsess over 2007 when Hamilton wins this year? That's, of course, the primary concern since Hamilton has beaten Alonso every year that he's been in f1

Uuuuh, 3 for Alonso against 1 from ... ?

F1 isnt about a dual you know?

still it was one of the best seasons that i have ever witnessed!
the outcome was not the one i wished, but i enjoyed that season, and went through all possible emotions, from happiness to sadness, from joy to disappointment, from hope to sobering, etc.
please more of that

Yeah it would, but Lewis will win this year making it 2 titles out of 4 seasons (50% WDC). Much more impressive than Alonso or anyone else and more to come in the next years.

we had that already!
material independent talks in f1 are nothing worth (regarding 2008 and 2009!)
and in 2007 alonso has beaten hamilton 10:7 on track and ended with the same points as hamilton on the end!

material indepent talks

right here .. you have it .. this season ... its all yours from the joy of Bahrain to the disappointment in Abudhabi ...

we will see, who will be sad at the end of this season

Remember that he who laughs last laughs longest

Well, if Alonso beated Hamilton in 2008 & 2009 with that Renaultdog he had, We wouldn't be arguing this, would we?

Anyway, just wait three days and you will see some Hamiltownage by Alonso

Anyway, if you want to keep arguing about 2007, heres a very simple fact that proves whos better:

If that year there were just two competitors, just pure competition, fastness battle of them so they could only finish 1st and 2nd, winning 10 points and 8 points, Alonso would have beaten Hamilton.

Alonso: (10races*10points=100point)+(7races*8pts=56)=156pt
Hamilton: (7*10=70)+(10*8=80)=150pt

Loudest- as I have heard

We will see that mate.. look forward to it.. But.. No matter it will be laugh, joy or sadness, would not trample on others' by devaluing the wins
(by claims of conspiracy/favoritism/luck etc)

if there are evidences for that, why not

Lest just cut the crap about Lewis vs Alonso back in 2007, i enjoyed the season / Lewis / Alonso / races.

Both are the best out there, both are very consistent and darn fast.

Alonso and Lewis have no issues with each other, why would we? Get over it and look at this fantastic season without the nagging.

we all do that, but in the race free weeks, i think it is allowed to talk about the past!