that is exactly what happened.
i believe it was Ron's intention for his "experiment" to drive the best car and learn from the best driver in the series starting from his very first year in F1.
but the plan soon changed. commercial interest alone was enough for it to happen that way. its understandable.
having a spaniard put an end to the Kaiser domination was not news to sells those newspapers.
then Lewis surprised everybody giving hope to british fans, and the terribly untruthful and cruel press shaped that hope at will.
while spanish press was also being biased, the level of manipulation cannot be compared.
equality in McLaren 2007? i laugh not to cry

it would also be interesting to compare those 2 and the relative performance of the cars they had, treatment from the press, from the FiA and race director, etc...

please some fanboy come here try and sell me Lewis and his noble moral values or something.
you needed that hero, you have it.
but don't sell it to us! its an experiment

Alonso lost by half a point to one of greatest F1 talents ever - its not such a big shame and you don't need to rewrite history.

Button will be less happy at the end of the season and after all we are much closer to a repeat of 2007 in Mclaren (just look at the unhappiness of Hamilton after Turkey) than at Ferrari as a lot of people predicted.
And about Kovalainen: read what he had to say about Mclaren equality (but I don't think he can say much more has he was always de facto #2)

what excuse do you have for Alonso's after all he is the agreed better driver normally.

there are no excuses: from now on, with the Valencia upgrade Alonso is gonna shine again!

QFF

Button will be less happy at the end of the season and after all we are much closer to a repeat of 2007 in Mclaren (just look at the unhappiness of Hamilton after Turkey) than at Ferrari as a lot of people predicted.
And about Kovalainen: read what he had to say about Mclaren equality (but I don't think he can say much more has he was always de facto #2)

what should be obvious on that?
that a round or some rounds before, where he was off the track he damaged something on his car!

laughable claim yours is, specially when this stats show it http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/FAlonso. quicker by a big margin, monaco, silverstone, germany, indi

yet fernado is ahead, just a system in which number of 2nd positions clarifies who is to be in front. http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/FAlonso

ridiculous was mclaren and his way to manage hungary, I remind you without such sanction alonso would be world champion again, plus tell one single race where fernando was outqualified with less fuel.

sorry man, couldnt resist you even sound funny. I'll never forget what alonso was told by a mclaren engineer in turkey "fernando, you don't know how easy it is to make a car less competitive" strange breaches on chasis, tyre pressures, limited engines, malfunctioning gearboxes...

you see? it's not difficult to see it was done on purpose, obvious when you desperately need a british champion after decades of thirst. the ones who had no shame were those managing mclaren

never was treated by mclaren like he deserved, never got a seat after years of dedication to the team, even was humilliated by neglecting him against kova.

215 McLaren-Mercede
193 RBR-Renault
161 Ferrari

109 Lewis Hamilton
106 Jenson Button
103 Mark Webber
094 Fernando Alonso
090 Sebastian Vettel
067 Felipe Massa

Constructor standings represent the power of the car overall. Now if you lower RBR and McLaren points to Ferrari's and you substract the WDC points to the drivers too, it would look like this:

161 McLaren-Mercedes (215-161=54 - 54/2=27 - 27 is what you substract to the drivers)
161 RBR-Renault (193-161=32 - 32/2=16 - 16 is what you substract to the drivers)
161 Ferrari

These would be the actual standings if the cars were about the same:

94 Fernando Alonso
87 Mark Webber (103-16)
82 Lewis Hamilton (109-27)
79 Jenson Button (106-27)
74 Sebastian Vettel (90-16)
67 Felipe Massa

This doesn't prove a shit, but it gives you a overview of who's the boss.

ferrari fighting with renaults and mercedes and it's all of a sudden the best car out there without any big upgrade but drivers don't deliver what a truth!!!

back to 2007 season, I've found something I'd like to share, quite remarkable indeed IMHO

John L Sharp's view of Fernando vs Lewis

MONACO: where this muddle started. Team orders were issued (to slow down) to preserve the engine for the next race (when Alonso, after 2nd pit stop had a +10sec advantage on Hamilton and close to 1 min on Massa). Alonso limited his car rpm down to 17000 rpm. Hamilton "failed" to listen and his complaint initiated an FIA investigation. No foul play. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

INDIANAPOLIS: No orders were given to reduce rpms. Alonso was undoubtedly faster than Hamilton. Alonso tried just once to overtake Hamilton. Failed, but his reaction in the following lap suggested that maybe, just maybe, he was stopped from trying again by team orders. At least this would have been the consensus amongst English press should that have happened the other way round!! Alonso did not "request" the FIA to investigate what to everyone's eyes was more suspicious than what had "happened" in MONACO. Yes, Hamilton won the US GP (but Alonso outpaced Hamilton there!)And this includes all way throughout Q1, Q2 and Q3, until the very last extra flying lap (as also occurred previously in Canada).And we know that this season, apart from when there is a mechanical failure or significant human error, P1 is equivalent to victory (that's why enjoying that extra flying lap in Q3 is soooo important - with less fuel)

MAGNY-COURS: mechanical problems for Alonso with the gear change system and suspension hydraulics or electronics. I can't remember now. No foul play. Probably bad luck?. Hamilton faster than Alonso!

SILVERSTONE: pole for Hamilton (this was clearly planned to satisfy British supporters). We know what happened after. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

NURBURGRING: Hamilton's incident. Alonso had the same problem with his car. Only he was luckier. I could not compare performances as Hamilton may have been physically in a poorer condition. But I have to give Alonso the benefit of the doubt in this one. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

HUNGARORING: the second incident. Naughty boys (both Hamilton and Alonso)! Alonso actually was faster when he did his best lap (faster than Hamilton with same fuel loads). Of course, Hamilton intentions were to steal Alonso's extra lap knowing than P1= Victory in here. He wanted to enjoy that extra flying lap (and with less fuel load) so it was likely he could have improved Alonso's lap. But on equal levels of fuel Alonso was faster. And do not forget, it was Alonso’s turn to enjoy the extra flying lap (Hamilton prevented him from doing so). FIA sanction absolutely inappropriate. Hamilton should now have 2 points less and Alonso 5 more (as surely Alonso would have won that race and Hamilton would have finished 2nd or third). Unfortunately for Alonso, the "judges" were a British, a German and a Chinese (it is like having an English referee in the World Cup Final between England and Spain - biased decision!). Curiously same British guy that investigated the Japanese SC mess.

TURKEY: relatively bad luck for Hamilton. Maybe he was pushing too hard and not looking after his tyres properly. Relatively because luckily for him, the tyre burst two or three corners before pit entry so he was able to finish 5th. However, Hamilton was faster!

MONZA: Alonso faster. As simple as that!

SPA: Alonso faster. As simple as that! Poisonous strategy (Hamilton 5 extra laps 2nd stint). Not investigated by FIA. Hamilton's lack of speed prevented him from overtaking Alonso. Naughty Ron .

JAPAN: Alonso's accident. Difficult weather conditions! Erratic driving behind SC. FIA does not sanction Hamilton. Abnormal real tyre pressures after 1st pit stop. Overinflation. However, let's say that Hamilton was faster than Alonso, and luckier!

CHINA: Alonso faster than Hamilton, except Q3 by 0.6 sec! Tyre pressures used in Q3 appear to be overheated causing increase of pressure, measured at 1.5 psi - normally 0.2 psi. Max Mosley and FIA are aware of this and highly suspicious. Foul play, however, would be difficult to prove. Hamilton faster in Q3, but is that real or due to some sort of manipulation? The race as expected. From P1 usually you will maintain the momentum (independently of who you are). Poor tyre treatment: Hamilton was clearly abusing intermediate tyres, driving over dried tarmac, overheating and gradually destroying them. Yes, you get more speed that way but the life span greatly diminishes. And he paid for it. Bad luck, though.

FINALLY: There have been circuits were Alonso has been clearly faster during free practice, Q1, Q2 and most of Q3 until the very last lap, when Hamilton with the extra flying lap (less fuel, do not forget) has secured P1 –. The Team, since Canada, has been clearly helping strategically Hamilton's interests and Alonso is not stupid and realises that. One now wonders whether a “magic” hand has been playing little tricks on Alonso. Nothing surprises me these days.

CONCLUSION: Maybe everybody was expecting Alonso to run easily away with the title. However, once the Team realised that Hamilton was very good, strategy changed to silently benefit/favour the McLaren breed driver. Proof for this is that the number of extra flying laps that Hamilton has enjoyed is 7 against 2 of Alonso (at the beginning of the season). And after Brazil it surely will be 8 against 2. And we know that overtaking is not easy these days (so there are huge team interests on securing P1, and surely this is the aim of McLaren for Hamilton in Brazil). This can be achieved by giving Hamilton once more the extra flying lap and if he struggles, maybe overcooking certain drivers rubber.

Equality is a nice word, but from now on it sounds to me like pathological thinking coming from Ron's mouth.

I just can’t imagine how difficult it has been for Alonso to keep focused (and I could extend on the psychological war launched by McLaren against Alonso after Monza, including Hamilton's comments (always under the protection of Ron).

alonso said it, he confirmed it alive after the qualy, on youtube you'll find all his comments, in spanish though

and ron couldn't fix anything and raise suspicion as the spanish automobile fed kept an eye on them since hungary when alonso claimed engineers bullied on him even hinting at his life integrity

That is just too much. Alonso is just such a funny guy, I have never seen such paranoia and crazyness from one driver. Not even from Mansell.

in your blindfolded eyes might not be the case, as he's been far away of fighting for championships, for those of us who follow him he's been stronger than ever, destroying literally piquet, grosjean and now massa, the only drivers whom one can be compared really.

Why did I start thinking of stinking horse manure when I read your post?

Damn, that's one hell of a unobjective post! Stop

Alonso lost by half a point to one of greatest F1 talents ever - its not such a big shame and you don't need to rewrite history. But this is what happens when you overglorify a driver and then get a good dose of reality. Alonso is great driver, but not unbeatable demigod - he can lose in a fair way against his teammate, and thats exactly what happened in 2007.

Cut all the press BS aside. Who had more team cockups and car failures in 2007? That is only relevant question.

AFAIK - it was Hamilton, and even if it were Alonso it wouldn't mean anything unless you have one guy with perfect car, and other guy with car breaking every second race (HINT: Ferrari in Rubens/Schumacher era).

Alonso complained about not being given nr1 status. He himself said he doesn't believe in driver equality and I can understand that, but he needed to know that McLaren will try to replicate equality as much as possible if Hamilton is any good. And he was way better than anyone expected. In short, Alonso underestimated Hamilton and expected clear nr1 status that he had in Renault, but insted got a fierce and dirty (Hungary 2007) rival instead of tame kid that will be happy to be his second fiddle.

Btw, if you really think McLaren is such an evil Lewis Hamilton empire - why the hell is Button happy with it? Why doesn't Kovalainen (who DID play second fiddle in second part of 2008. and throughout 2009. to Lewis) say anything bad about McLaren?

As for Massa, he is not the same after he nearly died.

Well, I think he managed to solve his paranoia, but it definitely was a problem until after 2007. Pat Symonds talked about it also I think, we also know Alonso didn't feel to good at Renault at the end of 2006., and it all just continued in 2007. But he looks like a cool guy now

thats only because Massa is no longer a racing driver but a highly paid will never be a winner driver now.
He took the money instead of the WDC

Destroying Piquet and Grosjean.. Yes. That is quite the acheivement... Especially with a clear number one status.
As for Massa, he is not the same after he nearly died. Not at all. So I dont know. Other teammates are Trulli and Hamilton who both beat him. At least until Trulli was mysteriously replaced by Renault with Fisichella or he quit from McLaren.

his name is alonso, or fernando, not teflonso.
And we don't see mistakes from button as you don't see button ahead of hamilton, he's happy cruising as n2
The excuse why fernando is better is this http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/FAlonso even against the whole great britain the spaniard beat hamilton, button alongside hamilton is a mere n2 driver happy with his n2 role, that's why you don't see any mistakes from him

Every driver must sooner or later face his nemesis, and in Alonso's case that was Hamilton.

When I look at Alonso's face, I do not see someone who just enjoys being a racing driver. I see a man under severe pressure and self-doubt, and I think that's why he is making these mistakes. I hope that he will recover his mental equilibrium, and am confident that when he does he will be faster than ever.

hilarious, i'd pay millions to lineup again fernando and hamilton outside of mclaren, we'd see whose fernando's nemesis

Felippe baby just doesn't look as full of beans as he did in 08 and 09. And what significant changes since then?..Read into that what you will.

hilarious, i'd pay millions to lineup again fernando and hamilton outside of mclaren, we'd see whose fernando's nemesis

ohh my god, you're the funniest guy I've ever read, man, you made my day, work will be much easier later thanks to your vision

in your wet dreams where Alonso win the GPs lapping everyone even himself
I see even Alonso fans are rattled by Hamilton more than Alonso himself..........their biggest nightmare is Hamilton i see........

1 Kimi Räikkönen 1 3 3 Ret 8 5 4 1 1 Ret 2 2 3 1 3 1 1 110
2 Lewis Hamilton 3 2 2 2 2 1 1 3 3 9 1 5 2 4 1 Ret 7 109
3 Fernando Alonso2 1 5 3 1 7 2 7 2 1 4 3 1 3 Ret 2 3 109

Always happy to make someone else smile!

FWIW, I'm actually an Alonso supporter. Not sure if you got that.

I know, I know, but you sounded really funny

hilarious, i'd pay millions to lineup again fernando and hamilton outside of mclaren, we'd see whose fernando's nemesis

and yet stats put fernando ahead, hamilton was second just because of FIA rules,http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/FAlonso. and don't forget the completely unfair and biased sanction in Hungary, no surprised though, bernie was desperate to get a british champion too, afterall, this sport is from britain and its owners are british.

For us, alonso's fans, our biggest nightmare was dennis and mclaren in general, that's why every single time they race or test around the get a significant whistle

I don't think Fernando lacks self-confidence on track, I think he has low personal self-esteem, he is shy and introverted, but that's all.

2007 still haunts him, and he's never really recovered. I know a lot of critics keep saying he's the 'most complete' driver in F1 but Kubica is doing as good, if not better, job at Renault than Alonso did over the last 2 years.

Fernando said long time ago that Kubica was the best driver on grid, so I don't see how that can make his self-confidence go down.

2007 still haunts him, and he's never really recovered.

2007 still haunts him, and he's never really recovered. I know a lot of critics keep saying he's the 'most complete' driver in F1 but Kubica is doing as good, if not better, job at Renault than Alonso did over the last 2 years.

That is my impression as well. If you compare photos taken before and after 2007, the difference is apparent.

But I will forever be grateful that he ended the Schumacher-era! I mean, is there anyone who disagrees that F1 has gotten a lot more interesting since?

The major point is that Mclaren lost the WDC. That's the important factor and that's what should count for Mclaren - I don't believe that their aim was just to put Hamilton ahead of Alonso just for fun.

That year proved that putting Alonso as a support role for Hamilton was a disaster for them in 2007 - they launched their champion that won in 08 but they were a total disapoint to Alonso's expectations from Mclaren.
But obviously you think that they were competing in equality mode and the one's that say the opposite are rewriting the general feeling of Hamilton's supporters.

Fortunately for him, Alonso isn't the kind of guy who accepts being number 2 and it was a classic seeing him fighting all mighty Mclaren - a pleasure to see.

2007 still haunts him, and he's never really recovered. I know a lot of critics keep saying he's the 'most complete' driver in F1 but Kubica is doing as good, if not better, job at Renault than Alonso did over the last 2 years.

The thread is not for members to discuss how much they dislike each other, the Spanish press, the British press, Ron Dennis, Lewis Hamilton or Nelson Piquet. It was intentionally opened with a broad remit to discuss Fernando Alonso. That means some of the issues I just mentioned will inevitably arise but they must not become the main event. If they do, and if posters ignore this or Gareth's warning, members will have their posting rights suspended or withdrawn.

Why should not Kubica do a good job? And it's different owners/cars, etc.

But if you really want to compare take for instance that Alonso was in 2008 5th in the WDC with 2 wins. And that with a car that started to develop mid 07, same as Kubica as this years Renault car started to be designed mid 09.

If I was an Alonso fan I would be utterly ashamed to write this phrase. Unless you started following F1 this year and are just quoting stats.

Why should he?, he didn't know anything about that, and he still had to fight hard to win that one.

i really want to go to the next race
when we finish one race...
two weeks between the races for me are very long now
something new, because sometimes i want(ed) some relax
but now im looking forward for the next race