Full Version: Fernando Alonso thread [merged]
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The situation between FA and Macca was far too complicated to describe what happened as him being "sacked" ... and I say that as an LH and Macca fan who was very pissed off with FA by the end of 2007.
QUOTE (AlanWake @ Jun 15 2010, 19:29) 
Alonso wasn't fired, it was a mutual agreement between him and Mclaren to finish their relationship. Alonso wanted to leave Mclaren at all costs because he didn't feel comfortable working with a team that was racing against him. Ron Dennis: ”We were not racing Raikkonen, we were racing Alonso", remember?;)
When Mclaren realised Lewis was really that good and could win the WDC, they started to support Lewis more. They always looked more happy when Lewis got a pole position o win, it was so obvious...
. In the last races of 2007, when the pressure was on, I accept Lewis and Alonso had the same car, but nobody will convince me both drivers had the same treatment. I accept also that Alonso should have dealt better with the situation at Mclaren 
The truth is that he prefered to return to an uncompetitive Renault and win less money than to stay in Mclaren but where at least he was always loved and respected (and still he is) as he deserves. In other words, Alonso prefered to work for a midfield team like Renault where he feels happy and comfortable than for a top team like Mclaren where he felt like an outsider. It says it all to me.
In Ferrari, he feels like home and seems genuinely happy and nice, so I can see him staying there for the rest of his F1 career
Forza Alonso
When Mclaren realised Lewis was really that good and could win the WDC, they started to support Lewis more. They always looked more happy when Lewis got a pole position o win, it was so obvious...
. In the last races of 2007, when the pressure was on, I accept Lewis and Alonso had the same car, but nobody will convince me both drivers had the same treatment. I accept also that Alonso should have dealt better with the situation at Mclaren The truth is that he prefered to return to an uncompetitive Renault and win less money than to stay in Mclaren but where at least he was always loved and respected (and still he is) as he deserves. In other words, Alonso prefered to work for a midfield team like Renault where he feels happy and comfortable than for a top team like Mclaren where he felt like an outsider. It says it all to me.
In Ferrari, he feels like home and seems genuinely happy and nice, so I can see him staying there for the rest of his F1 career
Forza Alonso
he feels at home because he's the best driver there and doesn't have a young talent as a team mate
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 18:04)
whether you like it or not, fernando with a clearly inferior car sometimes even worse than the mercedes and renaults is yet only 15 points off the lead.
Er... no, not on race day. I'm sorry but on Sunday Fernando had the best car and as others have mentioned that's why he was so peeved on the podium, as it was a race he should/could have won.
QUOTE (jjcale @ Jun 15 2010, 20:00)
The situation between FA and Macca was far too complicated to describe what happened as him being "sacked" ... and I say that as an LH and Macca fan who was very pissed off with FA by the end of 2007.
I got the impression it was mutual agreement. Neither parties wanted to continue working with each other. Also, this is nothing against Mclaren, but I think the relationship was doomed from the start, regardless of teammate. Something didn't gel together. Maybe the working environment was not right, or whatever. But something was missing. Strangely at Ferrari, he has joined a team with a teammate, who we know is erm, not his closest friend (I've been gentle), but things seem more harmonious. It could be his working environment again.
Its like in any walk of life. You could do an identical job for 2 different companies with the same pay. However, you'll feel more comfortable with one company than the other because it suits you more, whereas another person might prefer the other company.
QUOTE (2ms @ Jun 15 2010, 19:15)
Of course he got fired.
Yeah he didn't want to get out of there. At all
QUOTE (Brandz07 @ Jun 15 2010, 20:03)
he feels at home because he's the best driver there and doesn't have a young talent as a team mate
no, he feels at home because they respect him and treat him as a human being, dennis declared himself a racist few years ago when claimed latin drivers are not suitable for the f1 sport and blatantly demostrated it in 2007,
in mclaren, australia, first race of the championship, alonso's wife and manager were forced to live the garage due to an unbearable behaviour by the team, including fernando's mechanics cheering up for lewis, and like this example I can give you dozens
lewis was the least of the problems fernando had in 2007
QUOTE (Obi Offiah @ Jun 15 2010, 20:07)
Er... no, not on race day. I'm sorry but on Sunday Fernando had the best car and as others have mentioned that's why he was so peeved on the podium, as it was a race he should/could have won.
how can it be the best car when massa was 7th and fernando 4th in qualy, with hamilton clearly the fastest guy in q1, q2 and q3? pretty contradictory
QUOTE (2ms @ Jun 15 2010, 19:15)
Of course he got fired. What euphemism do you prefer for "being released from contract" to go back to old team after just one year to be near-backmarker?
I agree he realised the team was very different. Different in that he thought with Kimi gone he would be able to be the fastest driver. Instead, not only did he get beaten by Kimi but he also got beaten by his own rookie teammate in same car. The problem was that he was too young and immature with inflated ego from having best car previous two years to be able to handle it well. So he couldn't get along with team. That's why he got dropped. He'd probably handle it differently now after couple years of being near-backmarker. But who knows.
I agree he realised the team was very different. Different in that he thought with Kimi gone he would be able to be the fastest driver. Instead, not only did he get beaten by Kimi but he also got beaten by his own rookie teammate in same car. The problem was that he was too young and immature with inflated ego from having best car previous two years to be able to handle it well. So he couldn't get along with team. That's why he got dropped. He'd probably handle it differently now after couple years of being near-backmarker. But who knows.
of course he didn't get fired, he already claimed when 4 or 5 races remaining that he wanted to break his contract, and his lawyers were working on a consensus to get rid of his contract. I will never forget when he said "I prefer ending up last in a decent team rather than 2nd with mclaren"
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 20:53)
how can it be the best car when massa was 7th and fernando 4th in qualy, with hamilton clearly the fastest guy in q1, q2 and q3? pretty contradictory
it was the best car in race conditions, looked after its tires the best, not the quickest overall tho, just lucky with the tire situation
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 20:52)
no, he feels at home because they respect him and treat him as a human being, dennis declared himself a racist few years ago when claimed latin drivers are not suitable for the f1 sport and blatantly demostrated it in 2007,
he can't be very racist
QUOTE (yr @ Jun 15 2010, 18:17)
I´m not so sure that Ferrari was that much behind Mac in straight line speed, what makes you so sure about it?
When Hammy was behind Alonso the only point when it was very close to him was at the end of that very long straight. When Alonso was behind Hammy the far away point in one lap between them was at exactly the same spot.
And you didn't answer to my question..
QUOTE (Brandz07 @ Jun 15 2010, 20:58)
he can't be very racist
he's indeed, and quite responsible of ruining montoya or fernando careers in mclaren, a disgrace to this sport
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 21:02)
he's indeed, and quite responsible of ruining montoya or fernando careers in mclaren, a disgrace to this sport
yeah, it's not like lewis hamilton's in his team.
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 20:53)
how can it be the best car when massa was 7th and fernando 4th in qualy, with hamilton clearly the fastest guy in q1, q2 and q3? pretty contradictory
As I said, on race day Alonso had the best car, well at least for the first and second stint.
QUOTE (Brandz07 @ Jun 15 2010, 21:03)
yeah, it's not like lewis hamilton's in his team.
According to ensign14:
QUOTE (ensign14 @ May 29 2010, 11:49)
You do know that making accusations against someone because of their nationality is, according to the European Union, racism?
I still remember Dennis' comments...
"I think there´s a category of drivers coming from Italy, Spain, South America...they don´t have enough discipline to win championships"
QUOTE (prty @ Jun 15 2010, 21:08)
"I think there´s a category of drivers coming from Italy, Spain, South America...they don´t have enough discipline to win championships"
how is that racism????!!!
QUOTE (Brandz07 @ Jun 15 2010, 21:03)
yeah, it's not like lewis hamilton's in his team.
don't get it
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 21:11)
don't get it
its sarcasm.
QUOTE (Brandz07 @ Jun 15 2010, 21:12)
its sarcasm.
still don't get it, don't worry. It's my english
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 21:14)
still don't get it, don't worry. It's my english
okay
QUOTE (Brandz07 @ Jun 15 2010, 20:10)
how is that racism????!!!
It's like saying the brits are egomaniacal... It can be construed as racism.
QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Jun 15 2010, 21:17)
It's like saying the brits are egomaniacal... It can be construed as racism.
well i dont think he meant it as racist.
it's just like saying african footballers struggle with defending, its not racist, just criticism :/
QUOTE (Brandz07 @ Jun 15 2010, 21:10)
how is that racism????!!!
it is racism, he's conditioning all latin drivers into a general and wrong idea
QUOTE (Brandz07 @ Jun 15 2010, 21:19)
well i dont think he meant it as racist.
it's just like saying african footballers struggle with defending, its not racist, just criticism :/
it's just like saying african footballers struggle with defending, its not racist, just criticism :/
the comment in itself might not be, his behaviours for with latin drivers is
QUOTE (aditya-now @ Jun 15 2010, 13:56)
You forget that Turkey is Felipe´s supreme race - he also outclassed Schumacher and Raikkonen there, and so he outclassed Alonso two weeks ago. This weekend we have seen the normal gap between Fernando and Felipe.
Schumacher outclassed Massa
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 20:53)
how can it be the best car when massa was 7th and fernando 4th in qualy, with hamilton clearly the fastest guy in q1, q2 and q3? pretty contradictory
Where did Button qualify?
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 21:02)
he's indeed, and quite responsible of ruining montoya or fernando careers in mclaren, a disgrace to this sport
Senna didnt do too bad there
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 20:22)
the comment in itself might not be, his behaviours for with latin drivers is
It's a generalisation and an insult of a particular nationality. I'd say that is racism.
QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Jun 15 2010, 21:31)
It's a generalisation and an insult of a particular nationality. I'd say that is racism.
don't get me wrong, I also read it as racist, not as important as facts, but as well with blatant superiority
What was the final points tally between Alonso and Hamilton in 2007?
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 21:20)
it is racism, he's conditioning all latin drivers into a general and wrong idea
I think so too, but then I thought that about the monkey impressions aimed at Hamilton and the national basketball team mocking the Chinese but I was told quite definitely that I was wrong. I guess different people have different standards of acceptability.
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 21:22)
the comment in itself might not be, his behaviours for with latin drivers is
Ron said "a category from..." not "all drivers from".
A category containing the indisciplined JPM, but not a certain Ayrton Senna...
Nor that nice Pedro de la Rosa.
QUOTE (Peter Perfect @ Jun 15 2010, 21:38)
I think so too, but then I thought that about the monkey impressions aimed at Hamilton and the national basketball team mocking the Chinese but I was told quite definitely that I was wrong. I guess different people have different standards of acceptability.
exactly, the difference between these cases is dennis didn't have any explanation or clarification whilst both spanish in costume and basketball players had.
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 21:41)
exactly, the difference between these cases is dennis didn't have any explanation or clarification whilst both spanish in costume and basketball players had.
Ah, and there we'd disagree. Both of those cases were completely unacceptable in my opinion and quite defiantly racist.
Discussion is not Ron Dennis and racism, please get back on topic.
QUOTE (Paul Prost @ Jun 15 2010, 21:35)
What was the final points tally between Alonso and Hamilton in 2007?
the same, but lewis ahead through podiums or whatever
and ones a rookie, ones a two time world champ, whats your point?
QUOTE (Brandz07 @ Jun 15 2010, 16:14)
the same, but lewis ahead through podiums or whatever
and ones a rookie, ones a two time world champ, whats your point?
and ones a rookie, ones a two time world champ, whats your point?
The point is he got 3rd in probably the fastest car on the grid. Then gets crap results the next two years. Then people are surprised when he doesn't do well this year even though in at least second best car for most of season so far?
QUOTE (2ms @ Jun 15 2010, 22:34)
The point is he got 3rd in probably the fastest car on the grid. Then gets crap results the next two years. Then people are surprised when he doesn't do well this year even though in at least second best car for most of season so far?
No. Point is he was racing hamilton, the entire mclaren team and the rest of the grid.
QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Jun 15 2010, 23:43)
No. Point is he was racing hamilton, the entire mclaren team and the rest of the grid.
plus hamilton had tested the mclaren the previous season, knew the whole team, was dennis huge investment and golden boy...the rookie was fernando, against the whole great britain and yet he missed the wdc for just 1 point. And seeing his face on the podium me thinks it was the case of the happiest driver ever to lose a championship for just 1 point
clearly backed up for the entire country hehe http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2323888/S...ilton-loss.html
QUOTE (Gareth @ Jun 15 2010, 16:42)
Straightline speeds of the Ferrari and the McLaren were very similar at Canada. McLaren used the F-duct to run more wing without being down on straightline speed.
So do you think it helped McLaren to be able to run more downforce than any other team? Did it help Hamilton and Button in overtaking Alonso or did it hamper them?
Due to their F-duct they had a similar high straightline speed like the best others out there, while having the best downforce in corners as well.
Again, I really dig Alonso for what he did this weekend in Canada, the only one in the field to mix it seriously with the McLarens.
Only once he was overtaken he fell into preserving mode - no meaning in risking his third place.
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 18:18)
plus hamilton had tested the mclaren the previous season, knew the whole team, was dennis huge investment and golden boy...the rookie was fernando, against the whole great britain and yet he missed the wdc for just 1 point. And seeing his face on the podium me thinks it was the case of the happiest driver ever to lose a championship for just 1 point clearly backed up for the entire country hehe http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2323888/S...ilton-loss.html
clearly backed up for the entire country hehe http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2323888/S...ilton-loss.htmlI think it's an absolutely outlandish conspiracy theory to think that a team would go and hire a former WDC and most expensive driver available (Ferrari had lured away Kimi) and immediately sabotage poor innocent guy and alienate him on purpose so they can bring in Kovalainen as a replacement.
I think it's much less outlandish to just accept that the guy got out driven and, unfortunately for everyone, was not able to be good member of team due to ego and it was necessary for him to go.
The question is, can he do what he did in 05 and 06 without superior equipment. And has he matured. If he can, then he will since he has many years left in F1. If so, then the people such as me who are unconvinced by him will be proven wrong. Let's see what the results are now that he is in the most wealthy team on grid flush with biggest support of any driver from giant Spanish bank.
I hope he indeed is as good as many would like to believe because then there is more competition for the top drivers.
QUOTE (2ms @ Jun 16 2010, 01:18)
I think it's an absolutely outlandish conspiracy theory to think that a team would go and hire a former WDC and most expensive driver available (Ferrari had lured away Kimi) and immediately sabotage poor innocent guy and alienate him on purpose so they can bring in Kovalainen as a replacement.
I think it's much less outlandish to just accept that the guy got out driven and, unfortunately for everyone, was not able to be good member of team due to ego and it was necessary for him to go.
The question is, can he do what he did in 05 and 06 without superior equipment. And has he matured. If he can, then he will since he has many years left in F1. If so, then the people such as me who are unconvinced by him will be proven wrong. Let's see what the results are now that he is in the most wealthy team on grid flush with biggest support of any driver from giant Spanish bank.
I think it's much less outlandish to just accept that the guy got out driven and, unfortunately for everyone, was not able to be good member of team due to ego and it was necessary for him to go.
The question is, can he do what he did in 05 and 06 without superior equipment. And has he matured. If he can, then he will since he has many years left in F1. If so, then the people such as me who are unconvinced by him will be proven wrong. Let's see what the results are now that he is in the most wealthy team on grid flush with biggest support of any driver from giant Spanish bank.
I really doubt anyone thought of that conspiracy theory, it;s outlandish indeed, fernando was reigning wdc, a good teacher for the aprentice in the long term, but the excellence of the other driver broke all the plans and since then, the team turned down fernando, they already had the champion they were looking for.
fernando wasn't outdriven at all, in terms of race pace he was quicker in most of the races by a big margin, I can't recall the stats right now but if I not mistaken it was sort of 11-5, the difference rooted in that extra lap hamilton had over and over again which impeded fernando to start in front of him, came to my mind that desperate strategy in silverstone, let alone all those reliability issues fernando suffered from time to time
The point is that people continue to trot out the line that Alonso 'got spanked/beaten/humiliated etc. by Lewis'.
This is clearly a lie.
The natural retort that follows "..but Lewis is a rookie...Alonso should have beaten him easily" is somewhat irrelevant when
a) Lewis probably test drove the car more than Alonso did before the season started
b) Lewis is one of the most naturally gifted F1 drivers to have emerged in the past decade
c) Alonso had more trouble adapting to Bridgestone tyres and the McLaren in 2007 than Lewis did.
Alonso was consistently faster (but only just) than Lewis over the 2nd half of the season.
I would suggest that both Alonso and Hamilton are probably the two outstanding talents on the grid at the moment.
This is clearly a lie.
The natural retort that follows "..but Lewis is a rookie...Alonso should have beaten him easily" is somewhat irrelevant when
a) Lewis probably test drove the car more than Alonso did before the season started
b) Lewis is one of the most naturally gifted F1 drivers to have emerged in the past decade
c) Alonso had more trouble adapting to Bridgestone tyres and the McLaren in 2007 than Lewis did.
Alonso was consistently faster (but only just) than Lewis over the 2nd half of the season.
I would suggest that both Alonso and Hamilton are probably the two outstanding talents on the grid at the moment.
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 15 2010, 19:28)
the team turned down fernando, they already had the champion they were looking for.
Is that why they got rid of Kovalainen too? Because he was unnecessarily good since they already had a good driver (who wasn't champion yet, by the way)?
QUOTE (otoelpiloto @ Jun 16 2010, 01:18)
plus hamilton had tested the mclaren the previous season, knew the whole team, was dennis huge investment and golden boy...the rookie was fernando, against the whole great britain and yet he missed the wdc for just 1 point. And seeing his face on the podium me thinks it was the case of the happiest driver ever to lose a championship for just 1 point clearly backed up for the entire country hehe http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2323888/S...ilton-loss.html
clearly backed up for the entire country hehe http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2323888/S...ilton-loss.htmlFernando just landed behind lewis in the Championship because He had the only Technical failure in France during that Season! And that costed him the Championship (besides the unfair Treatment of Dennis an Co.)
QUOTE (Paul Prost @ Jun 16 2010, 03:43)
b) Lewis is one of the most naturally gifted F1 drivers to have emerged in the past decade
c) Alonso had more trouble adapting to Bridgestone tyres and the McLaren in 2007 than Lewis did.
c) Alonso had more trouble adapting to Bridgestone tyres and the McLaren in 2007 than Lewis did.
Those two Points are Important! Lewis and bridgestone. Because that proves that He is Not that good on other tyres! In 2006 when Montoya got kicked Lewis had the Chance to Test and He was over half a Second of the pace on the Michelin tyres! On Michelin tyres Lewis was by far Not that fast as on Bridgestones!
QUOTE (YellowHelmet @ Jun 16 2010, 09:29)
Fernando just landed behind lewis in the Championship because He had the only Technical failure in France during that Season! And that costed him the Championship (besides the unfair Treatment of Dennis an Co.)
QUOTE (YellowHelmet @ Jun 16 2010, 09:36)
Those two Points are Important! Lewis and bridgestone. Because that proves that He is Not that good on other tyres! In 2006 when Montoya got kicked Lewis had the Chance to Test and He was over half a Second of the pace on the Michelin tyres! On Michelin tyres Lewis was by far Not that fast as on Bridgestones!
I guess you're looking forward to next year then; Lewis' luck surviving the switches to grooves, slicks, wide slicks, thin rounded slicks...it's all going to come to a grinding halt and finally he'll be exposed!!! Fernando will be super again, Pirellis will reveal the TRUTH!!
.Oh btw Lewis lost the wdc with the team's other technical failure
.
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jun 16 2010, 10:59)
Oh btw Lewis lost the wdc with the team's other technical failure .
.thats New, which Technical failure had Lewis?
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jun 16 2010, 09:59)
Oh btw Lewis lost the wdc with the team's other technical failure .
.He had a out of track excursion and later pressed the wrong button.
And wasn't unjustified penalized like Alonso in Hungary.
All in all Mclaren lose in 2007 because they bet on their wrong horse.
Hopefully we will see the rest of the Alonso-Hamilton (and a plus the classic Ferrari-Mclaren battles) saga this year and next years.
QUOTE (YellowHelmet @ Jun 16 2010, 10:14)
thats New, which Technical failure had Lewis?
New? It must be the most famous gearbox malfunction in history.
<waits for the inevitable...>
[edit] didn't have to wait long
. Outta here anyway as it is ancient history.
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jun 16 2010, 11:19)
New? It must be the most famous gearbox malfunction in history.
gearbox malfunction? When did this happen? And please don't come with brasil 07 and please don't tell me that the gearbox repaired itsself!
QUOTE (aditya-now @ Jun 16 2010, 00:40)
So do you think it helped McLaren to be able to run more downforce than any other team? Did it help Hamilton and Button in overtaking Alonso or did it hamper them?
Due to their F-duct they had a similar high straightline speed like the best others out there, while having the best downforce in corners as well.
Due to their F-duct they had a similar high straightline speed like the best others out there, while having the best downforce in corners as well.
I'm sure it did help them, just as some features of the Ferrari help that car to go quick. But the point is the overtake wasn't just a case of "get behind the Ferrari and let the F-duct do its thing". There was a lot of skill in that overtake. The attempts to do it down as only due to the F-duct are incorrect, IMO.
QUOTE (aditya-now @ Jun 16 2010, 00:40)
Again, I really dig Alonso for what he did this weekend in Canada, the only one in the field to mix it seriously with the McLarens.
Only once he was overtaken he fell into preserving mode - no meaning in risking his third place.
Only once he was overtaken he fell into preserving mode - no meaning in risking his third place.
I thought Alonso was absolutely superb. Second best drive of the weekend, IMO. Really unluck twice with backmarkers not getting out of the way as they should: he could well have won that race.
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