He practicaly says the same things he said right after the race about SC, Hamilton, lost places, the public not seeing a good race, F1 image being influenced in a bad way after this race.

When being asked if he thinks this race will influence very much the WDC at the end of the season, he says no because things tend to be compensated at the end of the season (bad/good) and whoever wins at the end of the season will be the right champion.

He also said the Hamilton penalty was correct, the drive-though, but it came too late. This is very important because some of you keep saying that Hamilton should have had a stop and go.

That's what I'm talking about. Thanks for the summary.

Also he says that the SC came out OK, because when there is an accident like this, that's the priority, it doesn't matter who the SC picks up because the accident is the main focus. And in a way the SC coming out was OK for Vettel and others but not for him, Massa and Hamilton. But Hamilton managed to get pass it and then got the drive-through.

Sometimes you benefit from the SC and sometimes not.

His tone calmed down a bit, but still he makes the accusations of some decissions that were made especially that he and Hamilton are fighting for WDC and in this race they were fighting for 2nd place.

"- Fernando, what happens if you overtake a safety car?
- All the children know that you can not overtake the SC.
- What happens if someone does it?
- Drive-through according to the rules ...but too late".

To summarize better he things that what happened was not OK, but says that in the end of the season the one that wins is the right champion and also complains about some points he lost (to Hamilton). I believe he is reffering that in a way Hamilton should have been 8th if the drive through would have come earlier.

His complaints were endless, personal and emotional; and Ferrari fed his paranoia "It's so unfair......" - Sounded like girlies in the playground. Coming from the team that pitted Schumacher for his drive through penalty at the end of the last lap so that he crossed the finish line in the pit lane, a smidgen hypocritical don't you think - No, of course you don't, it's always everybody else.

Pity we can't hear more of the radio traffic. It was very entertaining to hear Alonso crying 'Charlie Whiting' and 'it's not fair', and then the Ferrari guy (Domenicali or A's race engineer?) bluntly tell him to concentrate on his own race. At least that was the gist of the broken transmission we heard on local telly... comedy gold, I feel.

agreed as fans we should hear a lot more of this radio traffic! not sure the teams would see it that way though.... especially if it shows a driver is rattled

I'm not a blind Alonso fan, in this case as I already said his only fault was to say that the race was manipulated, at least in my opinion. He did many things wrong this season, and I don't have any problem to acknowledge that.

Sacred of being beaten. Yellowhelmet had claimed that Lewis is scared of Alonso, so I posted this link to a question posed by a Spanish reporter to both drivers.

i was just reacting on a post of an other user!
but talking with media, isnt reflecting the truth!
hamilton feels secure in mclaren and he thinks that in the mclaren team he can challenge everybody: fine with that!
but does that mean, that he can challenge the top drivers also in an other team?

Not quite sure what you mean with your last comment, but I don't think english is your main language (it is still 100x better than what I could ever achieve with yours).

Are you saying that Lewis does not give other drivers respect when talking about them ? When asked about Alonso, he always says that he is a great driver and one of the best. It is his job to challenge other drivers on the track and try and beat them.

i will try to improve it (maybe in few months, when i get used to write in english it will be better!)



when he breaks the rules, and not admiting that, not!

We have to talk about Fernando as this is the Alonso thread, so I will start with Fernando said that he was not aware of the pre race agreement between Piquet, Briatore and Symonds to stage a crash at the Singapore GP, even though he was doing a really short stint from way back on the starting grid. We are supposed to believe that.

I saw this yesterday as Lewis seeing the safety car (still in the pit lane exit and not in the middle of the road) and not knowing whether he can pass or not. I think he was told that he could pass if he does it before the safety car line, so then he sped up but was too late. We have seen the McLaren team not fully know the rules before when they stupidly told Lewis to let Trulli pass in the Aus GP after he went off the road.

To me it was a simple hesitation whilst the team discussed whether to pass the safety car before it exited the pit lane entrance.

I don't see why people can believe Alonso in his case and not Lewis in this one.

Edit : Your english is good enough.

I think that's a very significant admission. Because he must also be aware that in Singapore 08 the stewards took even longer to decide on the drive through for Rosberg - for a much more clear cut infraction which ended up costing Hamilton valuable points in his title fight with Massa. In that case, it was instantly obvious that Rosberg had illegally pitted under the SC. Despite the obviousness of the infraction - the commentators picked it up instantly, unlike yesterday - it took about half an hour for Rosberg to be given the penalty, which enabled him to pull out a nice gap and come out in second place, ahead of Hamilton in third. Yet despite this instance of Rosberg benefiting and Hamilton losing points from a rules breach by the former, there were no cries of "manipulated race" etc by McLaren or Hamilton. They simply accepted it as one of those things which can happen under the current unsatisfactory SC regulations, which the FIA still haven't managed to get right despite numerous tweaks over the years.

Yesterday was not so clear cut as the Rosberg incident; I doubt whether anyone calling "fix' on this thread had an idea that Hamilton had done anything wrong until they heard Alonso's complaints on the radio. It seems it was Alonso's complaints - and the Ferrari team talking directly to Whiting - which triggered the investigation. People seem to be forgetting that there was a very serious accident and that the resulting SC period was very chaotic even by recent standards. To suggest because Alonso lost out and Hamilton gained that this was part of some Machiavellian plot to benefit Hamilton at Alonso's expense is not at all realistic, because as Alonso has conceded, the only point that is really at issue is how long it took to hand down the penalty. I have just given a recent example of the stewards taking longer to penalize a more clear cut rules breach. But you could also consider Australia 2009, when McLaren were frantically trying to get hold of Whiting for clarification about the Trulli overtaking incident, but could not establish contact with him for an extended period because he was "busy". This ended up costing Hamilton and McLaren very heavily. I wish people going on about conspiracies to favour Hamilton would be honest enough to acknowledge the times he has been discomfited by the very same SC and Race Control / Stewarding problems that cost Alonso what would have been a deserved podium yesterday.

I also wish they would not try to pull the wool over people's eyes by always focus on Whiting's nationality. The fact is that, once Whiting passed on Alonso/Ferrari's complaint, both the decision to issue the drive-through penalty and the time it took to come to the decision were the responsibility of the stewards and NOT of Whiting. Until anyone here can provide evidence that Whiting "sat on" the complaints for any extended period rather than instantly passing them on to the stewards to investigate, talk of manipulation can safely be consigned to the lunatic fringe of Marca/AS/Lobato/Miquel, whose equivalent in the UK are The Sun and The Daily Star. If anyone has any complaints, they should refer them to the members of the stewards: Gerd Enser (from German motor club ADAC); Radovan Novak (FIA World Motor Sports Council member); Vidal Perucho (Director of the Jarama circuit and member of the FIA commissions for cross country rallying and truck racing); and Heinz-Harald Frentzen (whose mother is Spanish). I don't know of anything in the background of any of these men that would predispose them to favour Hamilton or unfairly hamper Alonso.

sure as it was a street circuit, also other drivers could have caused a sc! they were speculating!




it would be interesting to see the team radio transcript!



two different situations.
in the one lewis was caught by a lie, saying he didnt see the sc and was not slowing down, tv-footage proves him wrong!


thank you very much

why shouldnt they
they gained 6 points over massa in that race

Hmmmm.

And had the stewards dealt with an easier penalty than that given to Hamilton in Valencia in quicker time, they would have gained more. But rather than whinge, or claim the race was manipulated, they accepted that it can take time for the stewards to sort these things and took it on the chin.

Which is an interesting contrast to Alonso's attitude in this incident ...

It doesn't really, drivers have much tighter scope from their helmets than those cameras have. There is no proof that Hamilton indeed saw SC just as there is no proof Alonso didn't know about Singapore. Exactly same things.

Ferrari has done many bad things and were rightly criticized for this back then. And now McLaren are doing the same - thats why I don't support them anymore. But to condemn Ferrari and then enjoy McLaren doing the same - is the highest degree of hypocrisy.

are you joking?
the one thing happened behind alonso back (alonso had no influence on that)
the other thing was a decision of hamilton to first slown down when sawing the sc and than overtaking it (hamilton had an influence on that)
you see the difference

as you said, there is a contrast between those two situations.
in singapore 2008 hamilton profited from the race outcome relatively to his main championship rival --> no reason to complain
in valencia 2010 alonso lost a lot of points against the championship leader (due to a mistake by the stewards) --> reason to complain

At some point the FIA will publish the radio transcripts.

Of course, if the end of the pit-lane line and the safety car line were in the same place, then there would be no room for doubt. It is easy to see the pit lane line as it is a continuous strip beside you, there could then be a series of markers like | || ||| signifying the coming of the end of the line; or there could be parallel lines, 1 stripe/2 stripes/3 stripes; the 3 stripes could gradually come together until they become solid at the end of the line; this would then give the driver a very accurate indication of the approach of the end of the line - but I suppose that's too simple a concept for the FIA.

In Singapore Hamilton lost 2 points vs his WDC rival thanks to the stewards doing the same thing as they did in Valencia (take 15+ laps to decide on a penalty).

The contrast is that he didn't complain whereas Alonso has moaned a lot.

No reason to complain!

You don't think the extra points would have come in handy at the end of the season

You think F1 is run purely for the benefit of Alonso

and in total gained 6 points to Massa (anything else would just have been greedy!)
if you are profiting from an outcome relatively seen to your main competitor, be happy and dont complain
if you are losing from an outcome relatively seen to your main competitor, denounce it, so it wont happen again (and if yes, it should be clear for everybody!)

If you can't understand the concept that 8 > 6 then there's not much point continuing the discussion

I think you're well aware of the difference between gaining not as much as possible or losing big time.

It's perfectly understandable to critizise Alonso/Ferrari's attitude over last race all on it's own, but to compare it with Hamilton/McLarens in that other incident is just not on. It's like comparing a person that has won 1000 in a lottery but missed on the jackpot with another person that was robbed 1000.

I still want to know if Alonso and Ferrari are going to be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute having, as they have, accused the FIA and the Spanish(?) sporting authorities of manipulating the race - Like the Spanish organisers are going to plot against one of their own.

Overreaction from FA in my opinion. I'm an FA supporter and I don't agree with his assessment though I do feel that SC rules need to be tidied up a bit. Was a pity for Massa as well since he was on for a good finish after all his struggles with the super soft.

After watching the videos on this thread, it is a bit difficult to believe Hamilton that he thought he passed the safety car before the line as he slowed down considerably before the first SC line and then proceeded to speed up again once he realized it was still further ahead. Yes it is a tad unfair that his penalty did not really affect him but that is racing and it all evens out at the end of the year. He was punished under the rules available and there's nothing to whine about.

Also would like to comment on the quality of the posts on this forum. Always heard that the Autosport forum was free from trolls and contained extremely high quality posts; haven't seen as many as I'm sure many forum members would like. I enjoy a lot of them of course, but wish there could be more logical discussion. We are fortunate still to have a sport which takes video technology into account (unlike football) using which Hamilton was penalized. Let's look at the positives at least. Hope Ferrari recovers and focuses their energy into more useful things.

Its not the time itself is the biggest issue. It can objectively take time to come to the decision, but thats why stewards has freedom at chosing the penalty and they can impose something what really punishes the driver. And in this race by the time stewards come to the decision the drivetrough penalty completely lost its point yet they still went for it knowing that it basically means letting the offence be unpunishable. Thats the biggest change of attitude and its not from Ferrari but from stewards.

if you cant understand the concept 6>0 then we should search for an other topic to discuss on!

I completely understand this. But McLaren gained those 6 because they could conduct a succesful pitstop whereas Ferrari could not. McLaren made that 6 point advantage for themselves. Had the stewards reacted quicker, that 6 point advantage would have been 8. The stewards timing cost McLaren 2 points vs their WDC rival. Not as many points as Alonso was cost, sure, but still there was a cost there and zero complaints.

With so many Brits involved in F1, I think you should be careful with that "one of their own" line of arguments.

as i said earlier, one should not chance one's luck (as it happened in singapore 2008, everything else would have been greedy)

So had McLaren wanted a decision in less than 16 laps, they would have been greedy.

Alonso wanting it is perfectly ok and he is right to moan that the race is manipulated.

Double standards.

double standards? (i knew that was the call you were waiting for!)
no way, you are just mixing things up!
the one thing is that hamilton gained points against his championship rival through the sc phase --> so hamilton could have be upset if it was massa and speaking of manipulation (concerning the championship)!

the other one is that alonso lost points while sticking to the rules and hamilton gaining points while intentionally braking a rule!

in both cases the stewards manipulated the race, but in one case the one championship contender profited and in the other the other one lost!

This whole "atitude policing" toward Alonso is dull, and sanctimonious in the extreme.

Alonso said something in the heat of the moment immediately after the race. Big deal. Has not Hamilton made comments about threatening to leave F1 in the past because of dubious decisions? Was it not Ayrton Senna himself who, at Suzuka in 1991, let rip about having the 1989 title deliberately stolen from him a full 2 years after the fact? Even the great Gilles Villeneuve sulked after Imola in 1982, despite having handed the lead to Pironi by running off the circuit.

It's hardly unknown among highly competitive sports people.

sure it is and in some cases it is comprehensible and sometimes even the truth!

I want hear more of Alonso radio comments, the tone of it was to tell his team management that 'never mind racing, all we need to do today is get Hamilton'

I wonder if Ferrari are used to being spoken to like that. I suspect the honeymoon with Alonso may be over with Ferrari, and they have realised he is more trouble than he's worth.

I dont expect to see his contract being renewed in 3 years time unless he sorts his head out and stops treating Hamilton as a lifetime personal vendetta

you made my day

I've just listed yesterday's stewards. The ones that were responsible for deciding on infringements and handing out penalties at Valencia. Did you happen to notice any British names on that list? Spreading suggestive and vaguely xenophobic innuendo about the number of Brits involved in F1 is pointless unless you're prepared both to come out and present some hard facts demonstrating that the FIA is dominated by Brits and that these Britons are favouring British drivers. (I can't imagine that when you refer to "so many Brits involved in F1" you're alluding to the number of Britons who work as highly skilled engineers etc in the teams themselves, because that would be, well, just stupid. Perhaps some day teams we'll see "diversity" (i.e. quotas) in teams' technical staff, but I'm not holding my breath just yet.) For all you or I know, there are more Frenchmen, Germans or Italians at the FIA than Brits. But even if Brits are over represented - so bloody what?

Do you really believe that the nerve centre of the British conspiracy at the Place de la Concorde pushed a button when the safety car came out and instructed Vidal Perucho (Spanish), Heinz-Harald Frentzen (half-Spanish) and the other stewards: "get ready lads, now's our opportunity to shaft Alonso". I'm not laughing at you, I'm just genuinely confused by all this British bias stuff which seems only to have emerged since Alonso began to fight with Hamilton in 2007. Why did it never occur to anyone to go on about it when non-Brits like Senna and Piquet and Prost were fighting with British drivers like Mansell and Warwick in British teams like Williams and McLaren? I don't get it. To put my comments in perspective, I'm not British, and celebrated Germany's victory yesterday as they played better football.

They extend Massa, so with Alonso contract it will be a lot easier.

my point exactly, consipracy?? FA thinks his own people are plotting against him now.

I think that your comment points a little to a pre-disposition to view an Alonso complaint as a "moan" I think that Alonso has good reason to feel aggrieved - he obeyed the rules and went from a 15 point position to a 2 point position. Lewis Hamilton disobeyed a rule and the punishment was handed with such kack-handedness that he went from an 18 point position to an 18 point position. The FIA, in enforcing it's own rules have just cost FA 16 points to a key rival (in fact the WDC leader). I think that FA is entitled to be angry, especially when a WDC can hinge on a single point.

Since when he has problem with "manipulated" race?

no. the tone was i'll mind the racing...you mind charlie and lewis...which he did-overtaking nico...and which the team did-lewis getting the penalty.

I really, really want Massa to start beating Alonso, then we will see fireworks out of the pram....

I agree he has a right to be annoyed. It was a very harsh outcome for him.

But a right to claim the race was manipulated? Come on ... Even Dominicalli backed away from that statement.

I wish we'd actually get an answer for that.

His tone might not have been the most positive but I can understand his frustration, from the moment he got stuck behind the SC he knew he would only score small points in Valencia.
I fail to see why "the honeymoon" would be over, can you please elaborate why he 's more trouble than he's worth? I do acknowledge he made some silly mistakes this season that have cost him good points in the WDC but he's not realy lucky this season either (engine problems earlier on in the season, Canada, Valencia).

I expect his contract to be renewed if he delivers. It has nothing to do with his "problems" / problems with Hamilton