This is pretty p1ss poor work from the FIA with established teams already shifting focus on next years car what chance is the new team going to have!?!

So it seems we are to assume then that no 13th team will join the grid in 2011.
It's already a week past August 30th, and with each week passing it makes it more impossible for any team to join.

However, they may have done the deal behind closed doors and will announce it in Monza or possibly on September 8th together with their verdict on Ferrari. Then again, if the deal was indeed made, would it not inevitably leak?

Lotus did just fine after starting in September last year. Granted, they already had a car designed by Mike Gascoyne (who did some plans up for the Litespeed-Lotus project), but Epsilon Euskadi have annouced they're already starting wind tunnel tests. If that's so, it can be assumed they have a final car design in plac as well.


It depends. The Concorde Agreement only has a provision for thirteen teams. There are currently twelve, so if the FIA has more than one candidate that they feel is suitable (ie Villeneuve by Durango and Epsilon Euskadi) but cannot separate, they may be waiting for the WMSC meeting to put it to a vote. If it weren't for the Ferrari hearing, I doubt the WMSC would be convened especially for the decision of which team to accept, but if the opportunity is there and the FIA feels that putting it to a vote will result in the best team being selected, why not take that opportunity?

Epsilon can start all the wind tunnel testing they like. By their own admissions, they don't even have a financial guarantee yet...it rests on them being the successful bid.

Big risk for the FIA to go down that path. Be it Epsilon, Villeneuve or whoever.

How is that a risk? If Epsilon have a legally-binding contract with a backer - and who wouldn't in this situation? - that says they will be paid once they gain an entry, it's a slam dunk. Such a contract would guarantee Epsilon get their money upon being granted a grid place, whilst protecting the backer against a bad investment if they are rejected. Both sides win. The only problems that could arise would be a) the backer refuses to pay upon Epsilon's acceptance, which gives Epsilon grounds to sue, or b) Epsilon do a repeat of the USF1 farce, which gives the backer grounds to sue. I'll bet that similar contracts exist between Villeneueve and his backers, and that Manor-Wirth Research and Campos-Dallara had them, too.

Or did you think these things were done with an oral agreement only?

What your saying makes complete sense.

Except what about the deposit which was supposed to be given to the FIA? Bit hard to do that without a backer stumping up money immediately, I would have thought.

I just find it a bit fishy with Epsilon, with such admissions and the rumours which have been floating around, about the team pulling out of the running, possible mergers... etc.

Do you mean the deposit that has to be paid to actually join the grid? That doesn't have to be paid until a team is accepted. USF1 didn't pay theirs until September-October last year, and I do believe they were the first of the new teams to actually pay it. With the delay this year, that date will no doubt be moved back. It would probably be paid from the investment in the team, but I think it's something like US$400,000. Epsilon could probably pay that out of their own pocket if they had to. If you're referring to the thousand Euros a team needed to pay to get their application accepted for consideration ... well, if a team needs a backer to front a thousand Euros, they probably shouldn't be considered at all.

I don't see anything suspect in all the rumours of Epsilon backing out or considering merging with Hispania. Especially since Villeneuve was connected to Colonel Qaddafi's son as a source of income.

USF1 didn't pay a deposit last year, as the old deposit scheme had been scrapped. What they paid was the entry fee that all teams pay every year and is significantly smaller than any deposit ever was.

What is actually being referred to here is the strong rumours that Bernie has demanded that whichever team is accepted be able to put forward a multi-million dollar deposit / guarantee before they would be accepted. The deposit would be in addition to the fee that all teams pay each year, and would be returned over time (unlike the entry fee). This is a partial return - partial because the deposit isn't anywhere near as large, and would be returned to the team faster - to the bad old days where the deposit for a new team was so large that it basically excluded any new start-up teams that didn't have manufacturer backing (Toyota obviously, and Super Aguri had Honda funding).

This is the stumbling block with EE - they can't afford the deposit until their backers put the cash in, but the backers won't put the cash in until EE are accepted. FIA / Bernie won't accept EE until they've put the deposit forward. Someone needs to back down and offer a compromise that apparently hasn't been forthcoming yet (as far as we're aware).

Actually, a contract would sort that out just fine as well. One could be written up such that FOM have a guarantee of receiving that money if and when the team is accepted. FOM would be considered as having the money, even if it technically hasn't been paid to them yet, and it would be the first thing paid. Because FOM can't ask that all entrants put money up if only one of them is going to be accepted, unless they intended to pay the money back to the teams that didn't make it.

Besides, you say it's only rumour. Strong rumour, maybe, but still rumour.

Is there even a source for this rumor?

Last I heard Bernie was actually giving money to the last year's batch of new teams ($10 millions)... which is the opposite of requesting money from them?

I haven't heard/read anything about Bernie offering money this time around though...

edit: bit of googling helped me find the Ecclestone quote. I'm a bit surprised because I totally missed that one.

That might go a long way in explaining the delay with confirming the 13th entry for next year... it's pretty much Bernie interfering in FIA matters, not good this..

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-bus...-16m-deposit.do

(Sylt lovers rejoice!)

Only repeating what Epsilon themselves have been saying is the barrier. Can only assume someone in the equation doesn't want just a contract, but the actuality. Whether that's the FIA/Bernie playing hardball or EE's sponsors playing an extremely safe game we don't know.

Anyway, Scarbs just posted on Twitter that the decision should be published today:

A contract combined with an escrow account would satisfy both sides (ensuring that FOM/FIA are guaranteed deposit money if they grant entry and that the backer is guaranteed an entry if they invest their money), would be relatively simple to set up and isn't uncommon. So this shouldn't be a stumbling block even if both sides are playing hardball or a safe game.

He jinxed it hasn't he?

Everytime someone expects the decision, the FIA just pushes it back some more.. lol

http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formula_1/20...+team+nel+2011l

No 13th team according to this source

Autosprint is not the most reliable source, but it may be the case. This delay must mean something.

Some rumours that it'll be announced on Friday and that Stefan GP could be in good contention. FIA aren't in a hurry anyway!

Fat chance.

Does that Stefan entry have backing from Ken Anderson?

There won't be a new team next season. Someone may get bought/merged/invested in but it's too difficult to a) get the cash and b) get something that doesn't embarrass the team on the track by January.

Thats what i thought!

Anyway, maybe tomorrow we will see...

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/09/08/...-f1-calendar-2/



That was, err... pointless.

Ugh

I think for next year, they FIA should encourage teams to prepare not for 2012, but 2013. That way, they have a year to prepare, and it would be in time for the new regulations, which would give the new teams the best possible chance to succeed.

Well, given that ART is out, Prodrive and Lola are out, EE are gambling on the possibility of money showing up from thin air, and we were pretty much left with Durango and Stefan ( ), I think this is probably a good decision.

Thank goodness. Would have been a disaster.

A disaster? You mean like USF1?

I guess this thread can be closed then, no more new teams for 2011.

I wonder if we will even see Hispania next year. Maybe Virgin. Certainly Lotus. I've been hearing rumours that the original Lotus now want to get back in it (change to Team Lotus) and to have more Lotus factory involvement in the team. It would be good, the current incarnation is... loose, at best.

I can go to rest.

i was saving this link just in case: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/093038704X

Well I'm surprised by it, :-(
I would have loved to have finally a full grid again... F1 needs imo.

But the FIA knows we can't have another USF1 story again... :-S

yeah. Shame though. The three that pulled out themselves saw what a struggle the current new three teams were having and thought nah.... probably sensible, and if no other applications were as good as those three then the decision is a good one.

Oh well, maybe 2012?

J. Villadelprat's reaction:

http://www.epsiloneuskadi.com/epsilon/noti...p;idnoticia=343

Good decision, better no team than a repeat of the USF1 farce and frankly 12 or 13 teams not so much difference.
StefanGP was never getting in although they still have a counter of days until the 2011 season on their website.

Also it might not be such a bad idea for FIA to have a F1 slot available to allocate, who knows which interesting party might be looking for an entry in say a month or 6 from now.

I think myf1dream should have definitely applied

He basically says that he accepts FIA decision, that he knows that it would be difficult and that the team considers other ways to be involved with F1.

Read the opening page(s) - Ash was complaining about how he had to pay a thousand Euros to get the proposal looked at. My bet was that the thousand Euros was put in place to stop joke applications from being submitted this time ... like, say, myf1dream.

stefan gp's website is just so stupid now