Several posters on this forum today have asserted that Edwards "admitted" that the earlier crash was his own fault. He did not say that. What he actually said was:

The issue with Keselowski is not much different from the issue with Montoya in his first few Sprint races. That is, until a beginner has earned credibility, he is expected to show respect to those who already have credibility. Showing respect is not merely a matter of refraining from deliberately spinning out more senior drivers. It means giving the more senior guys room when they need it, cooperating in drafts, staying out of the way, and generally not being an ass. In the course of a weekend, there will be 100x as many opportunities for the new guy to get with the programme, or not, as what we can see on a race broadcast.
Earnhardt Sr tapped a lot of boys a lot of times. I once saw him, from 2nd place, try to spin out the leader on the last corner of the last lap. As it happened, the leader (T. Labonte) only got turned 90 deg, and won the race because his car was being pushed sideways across the line by Dale Sr's. Although Earnhardt Sr was perhaps the most aggressive of his era, he had earned his bones and shown the other guys enough respect enough times that they let him do his thing.
For Montoya, it took perhaps 25 races, but he got it, he started showing respect and working with the others, and since then he's had no ongoing problems. He is still relatively aggressive, but he usually stays on the right side of the imaginary line, and he now gets respect shown back to him.
Carl Edwards is not senior enough in racing terms to be looked up to the way that Martin, Burton and Elliott are, but he's a player, he's one of the boys. It's no coincidence that there has not been a chorus of condemnation of Edwards from the other drivers. He sent a message that a lot of them wanted Brad Keselowski to hear. What the drivers do to each other they consider to be their own business.

Whether Edwards's move created an unacceptable risk to the fans is a different matter.

Brad had it coming to him for a looong time. He fully deserved to get wrecked and potentially killed. I'm sorry if you don't want to read this. But that little prick is doing the same shit every weak to other drivers. He's lucky just like Carl, that he didn't kill anyone yet. It would be double standards to severely punish Carl without dealing with Brad. Nobody could seriously try to make out all those wrecks Brad caused were "not his fault". You reap what you sow.

I don't care much what they do with Carl now. I just hope they deal with Crashalotski. That kiddo has to stop doing this shit or eventually he'll get someone killed by it - even if it his himself.

I am sure Edwards will throw it back in NASCAR's face as well, you had the opportunity you failed to do so, you chose to take the route of letting the drivers deal with it, we have if you don't quite like the results then you must recant and fix it yourselves.

Right thing wrong track Bristol in 2 weeks hello!

Edward admits crash was deliberate

His exact words:

"My options," he wrote. "Considering that Brad wrecks me with no regard for anyone's safety or hard work, should I: A) Keep letting him wreck me? B) Confront him after the race? C) Wait till Bristol and collect other cars? or D) Take care of it now?

Thank you, I couldn't have said it better.

NASCAR started the year off by telling the drivers to 'deal' with it on their own, and now that they have in such an ugly way, will NASCAR recant?
TBH they shouldn't penalize Edwards at all, they are the ones that said have at it, but instead make it crystal clear at the next drivers meeting that from here on out any bullshit contact, pinching each other into the wall or onto the apron at all and it's the black flag, no fines, no penalties, sponsors be damned, points be damned, you are parked for the remainder of the race.
It's either that or let the drivers continue to play russian roulette with 3200 lb guns.

A secondary consideration that doesn't get mentioned was that it was a selfish act that screwed up the finish of the race for many others. It could have been a decent finish with Montoya catching up to the back of Busch. Then there was the scrambling of the field and the pileup caused by the green white checker demo derby. 90 more seconds and he could have spun him on the cool down lap and made his point between the two of them and provided a little entertainment for the end of the broadcast.

I agree NASCAR's never backed away from publicity opportunities.....but I've seen a couple of local/mainstream reports playing up Keselowski's comments about spectators getting killed which can't do anyone much good.

After more consideration, I am buying more into the argument that this is as much or more NASCAR's fault than it is Edward's. I mean, Pemberton literally said "Have at it" at the beginning of the season? Really? Really? I mean, that is pretty baffling. Derrrr. How can they have any authority to step up and punish Edwards now after saying that? This seems like it is basically what they were hoping for (which is absolutely insane). Maybe they gave Edwards a pat on the back and said "well done" in the trailer.

I really don't know if NASCAR can severely punish Edwards given what they said at the beginning of the year. This seems like more of a NASCAR problem than an Edwards problem. There's definitely something seriously wrong going on here. The fact that it is not immediately obvious what the problem is is a serious problem.

And when, exactly, did that happen?

Yeah, but Crashalotski sent Carl flying into the fence last year too. People are now claiming Carl shouldn't have tried to block back then. But either way Crashalotski could have avoided a crash easily if he wanted. He opted to punt off Carl and by that actually did injure spectators. And now he's trying to be holier than thou. In the real world it doesn't work that way. You cant paint every mailbox in your quarter orange and then complain they're not green...

That remark you quote from Edwards was in reference to the second crash, when Keselowski was wrecked with a few laps to go.
What I wrote, the post that I quoted, and the other posts to which I alluded, were in reference to the "earlier" crash on L41, when Keselowski tapped Edwards's left rear, sending him and Logano into the wall.
The question was whether Edwards had been entitled to retaliate against Keselowski for what had happened earlier in the race. Some folks here had disputed that, on the basis that they thought Edwards had admitted that the earlier crash had been his own "fault". I was pointing out that he had made no such admission.

Cheers.

Ok, but if you've watched the race you know Edwards admitted he wasn't so sure, anymore, if he could blame BK for the first incident, after seeing the footage. I haven't found it quoted, but that's what I've heard the commentators say.

What I quoted on the previous page came straight from a Georgia newspaper. Unless they're making it up, it is precisely what Carl Edwards had to say about the first crash, not on TV immediately after it had happened, but later yesterday:


ISTM what he's saying is that, although Keselowski's act was not blatant, he should not have done it, he did not need to do it, and if he had not done it Edwards and Logano would not have wrecked.

So if wrecks and possibly deaths are a great thing for viewership and profits then why bother with the expensive race cars? NASCAR is literally a step away from just being cage fighting to the death if that what the fans want to see. Running Man anyone?

It seems to me cousin Carl went down a tad too late, you be the judge...
Maybe we should start a poll, to see whose fault it was.

Don't get Bernie started. Mountain roads, ramps, crossroads, roundabouts, vertical loops, etc., destruction derbies, it's all good. Carl is more likely to be hurt playing frisbees.
...now that I think about it, he was playing frisbee.

nascar told the drivers to police themselves

are you for real?

No NASCAR driver allowed to be modeled as late Dale Earnhardt or Tim Richmond anymore? That how I see Brad Keslowski, the 2010 version of the both. If Kesolowski drove in the 70s-80s there be no complaints. Too bad the current generation are becoming into whiners over rubbing fenders when they are doing it as well

Yes that's the problem, the lack of manly men. Maybe then they'd at least weed themselves out faster.

Couldn't agree more. NASCAR though must be quite happy with all this drama since this gets there show even more attention, but playing dodgem cars at 190 mph is madness. Someone could easily have died.

Go to a go-kart track and you can see that people have a truly different morality when racing, forget racing at triple digit speeds. This is why Schumacher pulls all those illegal stunts, he cannot help himself. And this is why NASCAR needs to do its job rather than 'outsource' it to drivers who are overwhelmed by emotions and cannot exercise good judgement.

I don't really like the poll choices because I don't think its as clear cut as Team A or Team B so here's just some talking points.

-Brad getting wrecked is no surprise. He had it coming. In stock cars, people race you like you race them. He wrecks people and thus he got wrecked.

- Edwards didn't wreck him solely because of the incident earlier in the day. That incident was more or less the straw that broke the camel's back. He set out to cost Brad a good finish after years of costing various other drivers good finishes.

- I highly doubt this story would be getting as much airtime had the 12 car not flipped. Had it just spun, the story would just have stayed within the Nascar media circle and it would have been headlined as "Edwards gets revenge! What will Brad do next?". And everyone would have loved it.

-What irks me the most is the people that are so up in arms about people getting killed and how such a heinous act this was yet many of them will say in the same comment (or column, I've seen writers do this too) stuff like "this wasn't for position" or "there's a better place...like Richmond or Bristol". Sorry hypocrites. You can still kill a person going 90 mph at Bristol and it doesn't matter what lap you're on. This tells me one thing. You're reacting to the spectacle of the 12 flipping, not the action taken.

- Stock car racing has always been and will most likely always be filled with paybacks and intentional wrecks. In fact, intentional wrecks take place more often than people realize its just the media covering the race likes to cover it up. Tell-tale signs are when the announcers either A) Go silent B)Stumble around for answer and settle on "maybe he didn't see him" C) "I don't know what happened there" and they just move on or D) All of the above. What happens in these situations to those drivers? Nothing. So why is this situation any different? Because a car flipped? Because of what COULD have happened? What COULD have happened COULD happen at ANY time with any of those situations.

-So with that last talking point in mind, most of the fault falls on Nascar. Edwards should not be suspended because they've set a precedence in the past of not doing so. Fines and penalties will most likely occur. If they feel this is a serious issue, then clearly state what is and isn't allowed and what the punishment is. If you follow Nascar, you know this is something Nascar is notorious for not doing. They always leave things in a gray area and a ruling is up to their discretion and its something they should correct.

Put 'em in a couple of demo derby cars and let them smash the hell out of each other. The loser donates $25,000 to the winner's favorite charity.

Very nice post, nosaj100.

NASCAR needs to decide whether they are selling a sport or a spectacle. If it's a spectacle, then anything goes, or at least it does if it follows an intended script (they are the master manipulators). If it's sport they are peddling, then they need to clean up this nonsense and pronto.

As much as I sympathize with Edwards for what he did, he should be punished, and severely. Maybe taking a few races off may give him time to reflect on what he should and shouldn't be doing on the track. Keselowski should have been thrown out a long time ago, had he been, we wouldn't even be discussing this. People learn the hard way.


Cooper

What are you getting at?

I'll go ahead and extrapolate that for those of you who think Edwards was a few inches away from a Manslaughter charge, why isn't the DA pressing charges of Reckless Endangerment? He admitted he did it on purpose and that he's relived the guy walked out.

I'm not sure of Georgia's particular definition of RE but if that's not Reckless Endangerment, then what is? (The classic case of RE is shooting a gun up into the air without regard for where the bullet might come down)

Applying the rule of law to sporting events doesn't work too well sometimes.

Carls Edwards has a beef but should have sorted it without putting people in the grandstands and Brad in risk with a car flying at 190 mph.
But they don't have that in the poll.

If Keselowski drove in the 70s-80s, he'd have gotten six different colors of crap kicked out of him out behind the garages. Probably a few times. Either that or he'd have been injured severely.

Couldn't have Carl just used one of his HGH/.Roid enhanced arms to pop Keselowski in the piehole? Instead he did the pussy move and punted a ton and a half of metal, rubber and petrol into the retaining fence.

When you can't get along with Matt Kenseth you've got a personality disorder. Edwards fools some people with that Opie smile and the Duck but he's a sociopath. Hopefully he'll get "3"'ed before he hurts someone.

Nascar is pretty strange sometimes. 80% is good racing and the other 20% is BS. All of them do basically the same shit. Dimwits love "their guy" when he punts someone; wheeling out the "rubbin' is racin'" canard, vilify the "other guy" for the same actions. A lot like wrestling really.

It's funny because it offends people.

I agree! How many laps down was the guy at the time 100+? I read a quote where Edwards said something to the effect that he he was surprised to see BK go flying. What would have been an acceptable outcome? He intentionally put lives at risk to make an idiotic point. If I were king of NASCAR I'd seriously think about putting him on the sidelines for the rest of the season. Tradin' paint is one thing but safety has to be the ultimate consideration.

"No blood, no foul."

So your only problem with a would-be assassin is his incompetence?

You're at the wrong window. Whatever it is you're after, you'll have to find it elsewhere. Thanks.

Why? The guy is just pointing out how morally ambigious your principles are.

Just telling it like it is buddy.

in your view
you want circus and not racing, but heck you've got the right series for that

They both need to be banned for a period. There's absolutely no place for intentional crashing in (non-banger) motorsport. It's wreckless endangerment of many many people. If a spectator had died as collateral damage then his admittance (which wouldn't have been quite so forthcoming) would have been tantamount to manslaughter. I sympathise with Edwards and understand what he did but it can't be allowed, and it should not be treated any worse than the incident that he was retaliating against.

Neither of them is more to blame than the other but both should get severe penalties.

Just watched the race highlights, they need to fix that damned car from lifting every-time it turns tail...

Indeed


Putting a proper rear wing back on should fix that little problem. But maybe this is what Nascar wants. More spectacular crashes

This sounds very prejudiced but eye for an eye has been acceptable in America for centuries - don't see why it will change now.

Any driver that takes out another driver on purpose should receive a 1 year ban.

Harsh but fair. Also, if your solution was brought in, Keselowski would still be sitting his ban out from Talladega and the Atlanta crash would never have happened

I think we need to look at this in the context that it occured - Nascar. It seems to be fairly common practice to get repaired and go back out to wreck they guy who wrecked you, it's part of what Nascar is. To me its very telling that no Nascar drivers have come out and criticised Edwards. They have to race with him, often twice a week end. Surely if he was such a danger they wouldn't want to be racing against him?

I have a problem with any series or driver that deliberately gives paybacks. Blocking each other in qualifying would be one thing, but intentionally wrecking people is a bit of a joke. Especially if you admit to doing so, not that it has anything to do it. If he denied it, and everyone knew it was on purpose it'd be the same.

If NASCAR policed the rules better, you wouldn't need drivers handing out their own justice. But this is NASCAR and it's a normal thing to do this. It's not motorsport, it's motortainment. It's just "the way it is" over there gosh darn it. Yeeehaah let's do some racin ya'll. I'm not too concerned about it, but I'm just glad other racing series I enjoy don't follow this pattern.

This is the crux of the entire incident for me. Where Carl chose payback exposed fans to injuries and possibly death - this is not acceptable to me. Atlanta is arguably the fastest track NASCAR visits & Carl deliberately wrecked BK on the front stretch where almost all of the spectators are. Had BKs car gone into the stands, alot of you guys would be singing a different tune.

I'm not against the payback, just where on the track it took place.

Anybody who wants to see why Keselowski has pissed so many drivers off can take a look at this - http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_t...n=nascar,226627

So how have they decided to punish Carl(if at all)? Seems funny to me that if he had gotten out of the car at the end of the race and punched Brad in his face, he would have been immediately penalized. But since all he did was spin out a car at 180mph, sending it literally *flying* into the wall, it takes time to deliberate whether he should get punished or not.

What a freakin joke. The main problem is that NASCAR knows that much of its popularity comes from people wanting to see cars crash, and they cant do *too* much to stop it from happening(ie punishing drivers for it), or they'd lose viewers.

Report: Edwards won't be suspended for intentional wreck

So what exactly do you have to do to get suspended in Nascar?

It would be a tad hypocritical to ban someone for retaliation and not ban the driver of the initial crash aswell. There wouldn't BE retaliation without the first one.