I watched day 2 on Motorsports TV (Sky 413) today, they seem to show the action a day behind

I think most people know the only reason why Matthew Wilson is in the car

Fantastic to see Petter take second. Very well-done..

Good win for Seb...as I thought he probably would, but even better for Petter... great result for him and Phil.

Ogier is showing some nice development and before he went off I thought Ken Block was better than I expected him to be....

There are clearly some serious discussions going on right now with regards the future engine regs for 2011. The 1600cc Turbo announcement by ISC and Ford/Citroen was always from a day one a very stupid thing to announce as almost matter of fact.... The fact that Mini should have announced their entry a couple of months ago, suggests that all may not be decided yet on the engine regs for next year, which shows what a farce and joke North One Sport are...

2011 and 2012 should have become S2000+ with a new engine formula for 2013.. it is clear the likes of VAG and Fiat prefer the idea of 1.4 Turbo's while PSA/Mini and Ford in tow, prefer 1600cc Turbo engines.... the simple fact is that the organisers of the WRC were so asinine in their decisions for 2011, by trying to decide an engine change to the WRC ahead of a formal announcement for the 'World' engine from the FIA...

As I said bfore in the previous thread, if ISC can assure the entry of Mini and probably Proton into the WRC for 2011, the 1600cc Turbo regs will probably be approved, but it should never have been this shambollic.

I am sure there will be some interest this year from some of the drivers performances...but a top 3 of Citroen C4's followed by 4 Ford Focus's.... is a pretty diabolical state of affairs..

i hate to sound thick but my knowledge of rallying is urm, poor at best, but could someone tell me the real difference between WRC and IRC cars? by which i mean which series has the quicker more advanced cars, i've follwed WRC from a distance for a couple of years now but only recently have i come across IRC.

Pukka WRC cars are much more advanced, they use 2-liter turbocharged engines and very sophisticated 4WD driveline. IRC main class uses S2000 cars, which feature 2-liter atmospheric engines and effectively spec 4WD driveline. Difference in peak power is not that big but WRC cars have much more torque and wider powerband. S2000 cars are also used in SWRC (which is one of WRC junior categories) which makes it easy to compare them with WRC cars. In Mexico, Seb Loeb in the fastest WRC car beat Xevi Pons in the fastest S2000 by 18:44 which means over 3 sec/km. Then, on Rally Sweden the time difference was only 12:19 or about 2 sec/km and the fastest S2000 was effectively crawling on Saturday and Sunday while WRCs kept full throttle.
IMO this speed difference is not always evident to spectators. S2000 cars are a little bit slower but as their traction is worse they tend to be more "lively". My friends who were spectating Rally Sweden told the most spectacular driver was P-G Andersson in his S2000 Škoda. The way he drove it let the impression his car hardly touched the ground at all.

Excuse my silly question, but people here (British?) are talking about certain Dave covering WRC rounds. What is it? Is it just regular TV station or is it some kind of web TV? And the most important question - can I see it outside UK?

It's a digital TV channel that is most famous for showing Top Gear like 7 times a day. Don't think it's available outside the UK.

yet another 'i hate isc/north one' essay..........

turning into a broken record......

skoda v peugeot irc has so much more manufacturer involvement.....
And dont even start on that 7 manufacturers eurosport/irc p.r. bulls--- Its really only those 2!

prodrive are already working on 1.6 mini & have been for quite some time. Will definitely be announced within the next 2 weeks (was supposed to be at geneva but might be a week or 2 late due to 1 or 2 small contractual issues)

its 9 months till new season starts and regs are already decided, f1 would love to have this level of regulation stability!

PS: told you block would be huge for wrc

How come?? Last year they had only one chance to place a team order - in Rally Sardinia. The did not. And Seb won after Wales by one point..

Wasn´t about the surface.

In Jordania they´ll be back on a sea level >> more power & torsion >> no benefit for Citroen and 2008 Ford having six gears against Mikko´s and Jari-Matti´s five gear box..

Kosmic, get used to it.... Because even if I remain the only person to point out where the true fault at the decaying championship lies, I will mention it as many who are new to rallying have no clue why we only have two manufacturers..

I hate to break this to you, but there are 7 manufacturers registered for the IRC, you may not like that, but its a fact. Better still there are 4 manufacturer cars able to fight for podiums in the IRC, (Ford Fiesta, Peugeot 207, Skoda Fabia and the Proton Satria Neo) thats not PR BS as you like to call... its fact.

As to the comments on the Prodrive Mini, I am quite well aware of what they are working on, but I am also quite well aware of the conversations being held with regards the base engine, and providing there is guarantee of more than 3 manufacturers competing, then the 1600cc Turbo will be ratified from what I understand. For record, it was actually originally due to be announced before Christmas of last year.

As to Block being 'HUGE'... I would not go that far, his performance was good, but I suspect Tanner would be even better still.

Discuss

Calendar, Teams, Drivers for the upcoming season.

I have created this thread as a general WRC thread as the other thread is more a Kimi Raikkonen thread.

Please use the other thread : http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=119663 as the Kimi Raikkonen news thread and use this one as the general WRC thread (which will also feature Kimi but not in the dedicated sense).

Interesting year so far.

Ford doing well in Sweden and then Citreon dominating Rally Mexico.

Hopefully Jari-Matti can really help out Mikko for the rest of the year. I think Latvala is just happy to be there after last years spate of accidents.

Citreon dominated last rally but I hope that isnt a sign of what is to come.

Hyvaa Kimi!

Wow...how many times are we going to keep deleting and recreating the WRC thread? lol

Jari is driving a superb event in Jordan...tricky road conditions, but seemingly a well run event.

Real fun should start tomorrow...

Jordan, after SS11:

1.
1
Sebastien LOEB
M
2:02:08.8
0.0
0.0

=.
4
Jari-Matti LATVALA
M
2:02:08.8
0.0
0.0

3.
7
Sebastien OGIER
M
2:02:19.8
+11.0
+11.0

4.
11
Petter SOLBERG

2:02:33.2
+13.4
+24.4

5.
2
Dani SORDO
M
2:02:41.9
+8.7
+33.1

6.
5
Matthew WILSON
M
2:05:38.6
+2:56.7
+3:29.8

7.
9
Federico VILLAGRA
M
2:06:46.3
+1:07.7
+4:37.5

8.
8
Kimi RAIKKÖNEN
M
2:08:05.1
+1:18.8
+5:56.3

9.
28
Xavier PONS
S
2:09:47.4
+1:42.3
+7:38.6

10.
26
Bernardo SOUSA
S
2:09:54.7
+7.3
+7:45.9

11.
48
Patrik FLODIN
P
2:10:15.5
+20.8
+8:06.7

12.
31
Armindo ARAUJO
P
2:10:34.8
+19.3
+8:26.0

13.
6
Henning SOLBERG
M
2:10:52.0
+17.2
+8:43.2

14.
62
Yazeed AL RAJHI

2:13:53.5
+3:01.5
+11:44.7

15.
23
Michal KOSCIUSZKO
S
2:18:48.4
+4:54.9
+16:39.6

16.
36
Nicholai GEORGIOU
P
2:20:38.8
+1:50.4
+18:30.0

17.
47
Spyros PAVLIDES
P
2:21:08.3
+29.5
+18:59.5

18.
25
Eyvind BRYNILDSEN
S
2:21:26.2
+17.9
+19:17.4

19.
3
Mikko HIRVONEN
M
2:22:18.9
+52.7
+20:10.1

20.
45
Rui WANG
P
2:24:14.8
+1:55.9
+22:06.0

21.
56
Karl KRUUDA

2:25:32.3
+1:17.5
+23:23.5

22.
43
Reijo Juhani MUHONEN
P
2:29:05.2
+3:32.9
+26:56.4

23.
27
Janne TUOHINO
S
2:30:04.8
+59.6
+27:56.0

24.
53
Per Gunnar ANDERSSON
S
2:32:25.8
+2:21.0
+30:17.0

25.
22
Nasser AL-ATTIYAH
S
2:34:47.2
+2:21.4
+32:38.4

26.
44
Paulo NOBRE
P
2:42:08.7
+7:21.5
+39:59.9

27.
29
Jari KETOMAA
S
2:57:15.4
+15:06.7
+55:06.6

28.
59
Nada ZAIDAN

3:25:26.6
+28:11.2
+1:23:17.8

i dont understand.. what is the sense of make a race in here..



instead of here..

Can crest or any other long time rally fan explain why the lead drivers are forced to run first and lose time? It seems silly. We have teammates sweeping the road for others, and some drivers purposefully slowing down to get a better starting place. How long has this procedure been in place? Would this procedure be stopped?

This is about the 3rd year i think?

It's exactly the same reason why F1 races in Nowherestans and Whoknowswhereitislands.

Pathetic turn of events before the start of the first stage today...

Indeed Citroen have basically ruined Ogier's chances completely. It should have been Loeb-Latvala-Ogier, now we have Loeb-Latvala-Solberg, with Ogier in 8th!

Yeah, they should race without this kind of tactical games and in countries where there is audience..

at today's tactics. If this isn't a wake-up call to the FIA to change regulations, I don't know what is.

There has been wake-up calls on almost every gravel rally for several years. Yet FIA has done nothing except saying everything is OK. And what will be the solution? Reveresed starting order wasn't ideal as well, especially on asphalt rallies. It makes me think how IRC can avoid such controversies.

Then the solution is to adopt reverse starting order or not depending on the type of surface. And I'm pretty sure the grip levels on asphalt aren't as dramatically dependent on the starting order as gravel is, so reverse starting order for every rally would still be much better than what things are at the moment.

Or just let the leading driver decide whether he wants reverse starting order or not. Seriously, anything is better than this nonsense.

Loeb still leads as teams use tactics



I can't believe i'm reading this. It is just pathetic, slowing down before the end of a stage is bad enough but to deliberately tell your driver to get a penalty to help a teammate is totally out of order. Both teams should have all their cars disqualified and maybe even banned for the next rally, because they can't be allowed to do this anymore.

What is even more pathetis is that Loeb said in an interview yesterday,that he doesnt like to win this way.I guess he is a liar then or doesnt he have any say in Citroen team?

Surprise, Loeb wins.

Blame the rulemakers and their rules, not teams.

My head is rolling reading the penalty manipulations.

I dont get it, as I understand the chain of events

Ogier checked in late because of a problem and had to run behind Loeb and Latvala, Ford then put Hirvonen between Loeb and Latvala then Citroen did the same to put Ogier in front of Loeb, Latvala now had 2 extra cars cleaning the road for him and Loeb an extra one.

I truly dont get Ford's thinking playing Hirvonen the way they did, Loeb first on the road must have been perfect for them. By getting Hirvonen in play was only going to piss Citroen off and almost force them to play the same game.

As for the rules, its a team sport teams are always going to manipulate results. It's been a while since we have seen a car sitting at the end of a rally not crossing the finish line to get a team mate winning. No matter what you do you are never going to stop teams manipulating running orders. Some rallies first is better other rallies last is better, so theres always a need to manipulate them.

Ogier didnt have any problems and Citroen started this crap,so of course Ford will do the same.Im getting sick of this crap by both teams and there must be some rules to this ASAP.

Citroen has had those kinds of "electrical problems" a few times before.

It would be better if they would just say right up front they are doing it intentionally.

This all just reminds me why I don't watch WRC, and indeed why I prefer rally-cross.

It didn't pay Citroen to remove Ogier from running in front of Loeb, he was sweeper, why make him check in early and incur further penalties if the "electrical problem" was deliberate? It just got him back in front of Loeb where he originally was.

Drivers have a proposal

So, it seems the drivers are also a bit peeved. For Loeb to be so vocal, you have to wonder if Ogiers problem was real.

Yeah Loeb must have been royally pissed when he discovered he had to run first. "I don't care what his problem was get a car in front of me on the road"
All that aside wtf were Ford thinking manipulating Hirvonen's running position - they lost the moral high ground on team orders when they did that.

Rally leader picking his position on the road is a very simple yet effective solution, you dont even need qualifying, day 1 the championship leader picks running position, the qualifying thing could be quite good spectator wise

Quite shamefull actions by both teams. Let's hope there will be some rule "clarifications" to stop this crap. I believe Loeb would have won anyways, but it is quite shamefull in terms of the "spirit of the rules and competition".




Kimi Nice to see him drive a little slower/carefull and bring the car home.

Why dont they just run reversed? Championship leader last on the road and after day one reverse the order.How hard can it be?

not really the expert on rallying but i like Loebs (and other drivers') idea of quali

Fun? Not so much... Farce? Very possibly. So now the junior team drivers and those that have crashed out..re-enter to play sweeper for two remaining drivers ... It seems the organisers of the WRC have yet again failed to learn a single thing from the past and take the appropriate measure to save the teams from having to do this nonsense. I.e. Put the S-WRC cars on the road first, they can sweep the road then let the main WRC guys run in their proper order.

It helps the S-WRC guys give their sponsors some greater exposure, which helps the drivers find the budget, more of the public are there to see them, rather than watch the first 10 WRC cars then leave for another stage. Simple, effective and not rocket science, something this band of halfwits seem incapable of thinking of for themselves.

It simply staggers me how little coverage is being given to the dissapointed former drivers, fans and competitors who are airing their views of disquiet all over the web at the frankly shocking farce that the WRC has become. Please for the love of god Jean, take the promotion rights away from NOS and give it to a group that genuinely know how to run a 'rally' championship.

As to Rally Jordan, a very nice event, very well run and organised, ruined by team tactics, that should have never been needed.

Xavi Pons did a really nice job in S2000 and congrats to Kimi for the steady 8th place. The rest....Meh....

That's just not cricket.

Deploy sweeper pace cars before the stage.

I think this particular farce is a good thing for WRC. It (hopefully) forces FIA to do something to the starting order. It's a competitive sport - being fast should not be penalized. I'd rather see Mr Viagra, Wilslow or Kimi sweeping the roads first (1st day either by standings or IRC-style prologue) - or why not S2000s.

Just for anyone not aware...it was this 'Ass de Chapeau' and his mob at ISC that decided along with Morrie Chandler to do away with the top 10 cars running in reverse order!!! which worked for many years in the early to mid 2000's, the top 10 would run in reverse order to solve this exact problem of leaders sweeping the roads for others.. and in fact the IRC do that this year as do many other championships...

This came about from past antics of Carlos Sainz and Richard Burns and others, "checking tyre pressures" just before checking into a time control and thus dropping back in the start running order for that stage, so that they didnt sweep the road for others and thus had better conditions for themselves...so they introduced reverse running order for the top 10.

Enter now ISC and North One Sport that felt the public would not understand on TV why the top 10 were running in reverse order and so the regs were changed...

NOW...Simon Long has the bloody nerve to come out with the comment above on todays Autosport...when he was the clown involved with changing the regs to the farce we have now.....and NO ONE in the motorsport press is pulling him up saying.."Er excuse me....the regulations were working and do work perfectly well in other rally championships...until YOU Effed them up!...." To quote Gordon Ramsey..."YOU DONKEY!"

Simon Long = to a Labour Politician..... "Despite being in charge for over 10 years...its not my fault that we are in this mess"...... In the words of John Cleland... 'Phaque Off!'

Ha ha, quite agree - in fact, your post could have been written by me, as I feel exactly the same.
Also, notice how ISC 'rebranded' themselves into NorthOneSport? you're still the same company - and still clueless in how to promote the WRC. All these restrictions on coverage, media, etc Just give the coverage away - nobody is going to pay huge money for a 'dead-duck' series. And that is what it is? As yet, why are none of the big Manufacturers interested? Simple, because World Rallying is no longer relevant to them.
Malcolm Wilson said that the 'tactics' make things 'interesting' - sorry, NO!! they don't, they're a farce. Why punish the leader? Just to make it more even? Sorry, this isn't WWE - it's meant to be a serious motorsport. If someone keeps winning - TOUGH!!!
Finally, the proposed S1.6T regs are not the answer - we hear that they are expected to be expensive. Marvellous. That's going to attract loads of Manufacturers. What's wrong with cheap, loud, more power than grip cars that are spectacular. 4WD has served it's purpose - let FWD/RWD have the advantage now. Most road cars sold are 2WD. Doesn't it make sense?

and Autocross- every two weeks live at the track, simple true and honest sports- no gimmicks, nothing to spice up the show!

Welcome Arnage...finally another who clearly understands the reality of what is actually going on with the championship.

You may find my thread on the 'WRC State of Union' interesting, much you will probably also agree with.

Yeah, absolutely - and I notice you quite often get accused of being negative. I'm on a few other forums, (with another name) and I get accused similarly. Believe me, I like you love the sport but pull my hair out constantly at the level it now is. I'm not sure it will ever return to it's 70's, 80's, 90's level. The money men got involved, and basically raped and pillaged it.
Take our very own Rally GB - the one opportunity a year our sport had to reach out to 'Joe Public' - which meant huge crowds, fantastic TV/Radio coverage (Top Gear Rally Report/ Radio 2 updates), articles and coverage in the papers. Publicity you simply can't buy. So what did they do - move it to a corner of Wales - were nobody knows it's happening - and call it Wales RallyGB!! So, is it the RAC Rally, or the Welsh Rally??? Because I saw a competition to win tickets for the Welsh Rally - now forgive me, but that takes place in May on Epynt - and you don't need tickets. It's not a National event anymore - but a local Welsh event. As a result, the media treat it as such. And don't get me started on the ticket prices - how on earth do they justify £90 for a World Rally pass??? This isn't a 'Premier' sporting event - it's a minority/niche sport - now on a level with MotoX/Enduro, etc £25-30 would be more appropriate for pricing. Funny how the MSA set up a company to run the event, then the prices went up.
The sport/event are at death's door - everybody bar the powerbrokers can see it. More journalists need to come out and say these things, but apart from Jerry Williams, none will. Sadly, there are a few of us banging our heads on brick walls at the sheer incompetance of those in charge.