He said he would rather be in P1, what else can Webbo say?

Just need to let some air out of Seb's tyre with the "Q3 LR" blanket on it .... SebVet is too darn good.

Seb is better positioned , true.

But the race may have safety cars and will have strategy.
Even Schumi or Hamilton could still win it!


You also have not considered the starting grid either!


Mark can go barrelling down on the inside and force Vettel over the outside kerb, if he gets just 10% better traction. [Have you seen any of the other races at the track? It is quite a pattern for this to happen in all races!] P2 is on the inside, so a fractionally better start by Webbo and it is simply a matter of forcing the matter and the "pole" driver has to back out or go off.

Neither Webbo or SebVet will back off so it could prove quite amusing. If SebVet refuses to slot into second and does get pushed by Mark over the outside kerb, then due to the poor traction on grass, he would drop back to anywhere from P5-P10. Decidely turning the race in Webbo favour.

A Red Bull front row, 1/10 sec between Vettel & Webber. How close do you want it to be?
Measure 1/10 sec in distance over the 5.3km of the grand prix circuit, not much difference I would suggest.
Vettel i.m.o. is the best qualifier in F1 at the moment (something that Webber had a rep for in the past), that does not make Webber's efforts 2nd rate. There is still the majority of the grid behind him, and only 1 in front!
To me they complement each other and push each other to the max. What more could any team ask for?

That's entirely possible. Webber has a history of ruining other drivers' races at the start.

If you've seen any previous races at Melbourne or driven on the track yourself you'd know the outside line is way faster than the inside line. Webber won't push Vettel offtrack. The only thing Vettel has to do at the start is keep his line. If Webber doesn't have a better getaway at the start (which I doubt as he's on the dirty side) to get alongside Vettel on the inside, he will be forced to brake earlier than Vettel to even get through the first corner reasonably. And then he will have enough worries of Alonso behind him who did pick the outside line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLG-POZihAw - Watch Kimi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCTfLigwN-g - Watch Schumacher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAWDaC3gRN8 - ^

Can't remember the driver on pole losing the lead in the first turns at this circuit.

How many support races are there before the main event tomorrow?

Does anyone remember what happened to the "dirty side of the track" at the Las Vegas Grand Prix in 1981?

I hope Mark has talked to Alan Jones recently, - and the V8 Supercar guys...

Yeah but faster = riskier = more interesting to watch = more to celebrate afterward = more mistakes = greater need for response to mistakes = largely missing from F1. Seb feeds the need for speed. Go Sebastian!

Perhaps that's the invisible line separating very good from special and unique; class of drivers reserved to only a few. I am not sure if Seb has entered in yet, but surely he is very close on his approach, and I hope 2010 will shape his character. Whole winters (2009, 2008, 2007) people were happering on his mistakes, something I do not agree with because in closer look race anomaly has many angles, and not all were of his making. Look today, Hamilton, boy whom Seb allegedly "cannot touch" in racecraft, swam in personal errors, and we do not hear much about those.

I think that Seb will be OK.

No chance Webber is allowed to make contact with Vettel. He'll retire this year for sure then

Oh? Got some stats to back that up?

You wouldn't be a Kimi fan would you? The mini-crusade against Mark since Brazil is getting slightly old.

So we pick up right where we left off, with the pair being about a tenth or so apart(going either way depending on race weekend).

Good showing from both, but Vettel gets the nod, even if just.

Looking at the sector times, Webber also had a 23.9 in him, but (once again) didn't string the three sectors together.
For raw pace I don't think there's anything between them. Actually, if pushed to pick one, given perfect conditions for both, I would put my money on Webber still being able to go quicker over one lap.

From what I can tell, it is Sebastian mentoring Webber - albeit with action instead of words. Vettel has Webber pushing for greater heights as I see it, showing him possibilities. To Mark's credit, he then pushes himself - but I am getting tired of hearing about Webber's presumed prowess which has been altogether lacking throughout his career till now. His teammate kid deserves credit for many things - not just in regard to Red Bull (maiden win for both Torro Rosso AND Red Bull) but in regard to his contribution to the overall success of the team. Mark has always been a great team player - suddenly trying to propose him as the star of the team is ludicrous in my opinion. I think the star was shining way back in Torro Rosso in '08 when despite 6 - COUNT UM: SIX - retirements, the second string driver brought in 35 of the team's 39 points and 6th in the WCC (as compared to 7th by the primary team Red Bull in the hands of Webber and Coulthard). Doesn't matter why, how, when or where - there is no denying that a star was shining in the Red Bull midst at that time. I do not understand how it can possibily be an insult to Mark to celebrate the success that Sebastian has had - he is a marvel. Mark has always had potential as a team player, but a marvel he is not.

...I just think they're too close to be able to call one a star and not the other.
About '08; yeah Vettel shined but it was more about the Ferrari power plant than it was about the driver.

I've said it before, and it's probably even more so now; Red Bull's driver pairing is formidable!

The Ferrari power plant didn't appear to help Sebastien Bourdais, then or he and his teammates in the following year. Again - props to Mark because he can and does push himself and he does well, but there is nothing equal about these individuals as drivers in the big picture. Not by a long shot in my view.

Obviously driver talent comes into it, but it's a given conclusion that Bourdais was just not as quick. We saw from '09 that there's very little between Webber and Vettel for pace, but it was the year before.
In addition '08 was Vettel's rookie season which amplifies the advantage the Ferrari engine gave them.
It was common knowledge that the difference between Ferrari and Renault meant six tenths on average.

It's just unreasonable to say "not by a long shot" on the back of what the '09 season showed us.

Dude, I'm completely with you that he's way overexaggerating the difference between the drivers, but as for Vettel in 2008 - he was just fantastic(I think driver of the year). I dont think there was ever any talk about 'six tenths' difference with the engine(most I heard was a few, and thats from Webber's mouth). Vettel is a star, and I think Webber is right there with him. Sure, he's been the guy just one tenth behind more often than not, rather than in front, but still, the gap has stood at around a tenth ever since 2009. Thats not much at all in a straight comparison.

Well gratz to Seb, something special today and Mark has been on it most of the weekend, so amazing effort from them both. Virtually nothing in it really! Can't wait for the race tomorrow!

I seem to remember six tenths being the figure thrown around consistently but maybe that was just one particular track? They (Webber, DC, Horner, Newey) become more and more vocal about it as the season progressed, and no doubt was it a hugely contributing factor in the performance difference between Toro Rosso and Red Bull. The difference between the two teams was the engine, during some parts of the season also small aero-parts, and of course drivers. Assuming Vettel was no different from "all" drivers, he too improved from his rookie season - he came into '09 a better driver. (relatively speaking, the progress is the biggest from your rookie-season to the second season) Still, the Toro Rosso was very often out-performing the Red Bull, and as I've said, we know the difference between Vettel and Webber is tiny.

Please, this must not be read as me not rating Vettel! I think, like everyone else, that he belongs in the supreme quality group of drivers.

Not exactly. Marks last lap he was ahead and on for pole in sectors 1 and 3 from memory and only lost time in sector 2, ANyway not much between them at all and still a race to go!

No I am not, unless Mark is actually 23 years old and I don't know about it...

It's over chief. he can maybe steala few more wins and will out drive Sebastian every now and again but he's just not as consistent as Seb and will slowly become the number II in his own mind.

Come on! Seb has that spark, that something special.

Another race, another demonstration, another confirmation that Seb has a couple of tenths on Mark on tap.

Bahrain:
Q1 - Seb, Q2 - Seb, Q3 - Seb

Australia:
Q1 - Seb, Q2 - Seb, Q3 - Seb

I fear for Mark that the pattern above is going to be season long.

All of the top 3 had poor S2's on their second runs. The track conditions were changing and they weren't as good through that second for the final runs.

Vettel put together a marginally better lap on the first run. IIRC Mark had the best of the second run laps in conditions that were fading away. Kudos to Seb for getting the best lap in when the track was at its best.

For both of them, I just hope they get away clean at the front. An RBR 1-2 (in any order) will suit me just fine. Get jumped early, though, and that driver is in trouble - looks to me like RBR have setup to excel in S1 and S3 and they're down on top speed through S2.

Oh I rate Vettel as the overall most complete of the two, but I´m not at all prepared to write Webber off permanently.

I am 100% prepared. It will be really similar to last year, Mark will get every now and then but that's it.

That was my point. One suggests that Sebastian Vettel has something special that Mark lacks and it is assumed one is also "writing Mark off permanently" Nothing can be further from the truth. Mark has been driving for years and has had some very good drives over time, but he's never had that "spark" that one associates with certain drivers. Rosberg, Schumi, Alonso then Webber all did highly impressive laps today and we went onboard with all four - and Webber the longest because it is Oz. You can't help but successively cheer them on with their increasing speed and faster laps. Then came Vettel and we're onboard for his skitter home - and all I could say is 'that's the way you do it'.

Likewise. As a Webber fan I'm perfectly happy to say that when we look back in 10 years, it'll be pretty clear that Vettel will have had a better career than Mark - and it'll be because he'll be the more complete driver once he has a few solid years experience in top cars.

Mark's built a reputation as a driver who took mid-field cars places they should never have been, and then didn't get the result for whatever reason (usually reliability). Last year he was beaten by Vettel, but he wasn't disgraced and IMHO showed that had he been in the Renault instead of the Williams he would have been a strong challenge for Alonso.

Vettel, on the other hand, has shown that same brilliance in mid-field cars (his couple of BMW races and then the Toro Rosso) but had the reliability when he needed it (Monza). He's then landed himself a top drive and put in a pretty solid WDC challenge all things considered. Once he eradicates the youthful errors we saw last year and builds another years worth of WDC challenge experience... Well, he'll be hard to beat by anyone.

For me Mark is one of those drivers whose determination and discipline frequently - but not always - makes up for a slight lack of talent. Vettel has the talent, once he mates that with the temperament of a Webber or Schumacher he's going to be mega.

What are you talking about? I disagree - Webber does NOT have the temperament of Schumacher - no where near it. Vettel does not need the temperament of Webber at all. It is Webber whose temperament has changed a bit during the last year.

Webber beat Rosberg. So he can drive

I´m not heaping it on you to say it´s black and white. It´s my stance that Webber has the ability to come out on top between the two.
It´s more likely that it goes in favour of Vettel, but I think Webber is of such a claibre that he can do it too.

You mean when Webber and Vettel were actually evenly matched and there was a huge debate for 3/4 of the season on who RBR were actually going to back as number 1? and your 100% prepared to back one over the other?

100%. I have no doubt.

There is no shame in it either, Mark is more 'Barichello' than 'Fisichella/Kovalainen' so there is no shame in just not quite being there with a true stand out driver.

He just cannot match Vettel in Q3, he has the pace but drops the car too often. Race pace wise he had Vettel covered last year in term sof passing under pressure and 'jinking and jiving' so to speak but the minute Vettel got clear air in any race bar Monaco and Germany, he just went BANG BANG BANG pace wise.

The kid is very, very quick.

Whatver other race Webber has ever raced in, he knows the race tomorrow is probabley the only real chance he's likely to ever have to win the Australian GP, he has to treat it as the only chance he's going to get to win the gp, and vettel is the man who presents the biggest challenge of his career.

I would like to see Webber win albert park, it'll be good for him, the australians, and f1 in general, and give us a break from Vettel's finger point celebrating which will get boring fast.

The most important gp in Webber's life besides the minardi great points debut in 2001 begins tomorrow, somehow someway if he could win, be cool.

Me neither. Like most Aussies I know he's clearly a very sound down-to-earth guy but a total bastard when it comes to competitiveness. That comes across in both his interviews and his on-track antics. I hope he does well up against Vettel this year; he's certainly got it in him to do so.

Its a fine line between ultra aggressiveness and desperation.

I hope Mark can strike that balance tomorrow, but it will be difficult to out-drag Seb in the same car off the dirty side.

"thats the way you do it"???

dude he went 1/10th faster - it's not like he schooled mark like with a huge gap like alonso v massa - 1/10th. That is not showing "how you do it" thats a blink of an eye.

jeeze people go nuts on this forum

If you actually watched the press conference he looked anything but pleased.

Okay Vettel is insanely quick no question no doubt...so seeing how Webber is doing paired up with him, would any of you replace him with Kimi next year?

congrats to all vettel fans. he`s really "insanely quick" but remember he`s sitting in an insanely quick car with really huge advantage to the opposition.

I dont think their advantage is huge at all.

Very difficult. Here's hoping for an incident free first lap for everyone.

In an earlier post I mentioned Las Vegas in 1981.

The reason I mentioned that particular race is that in qualifying, Alan Jones was beaten (coincidentally by.1 sec) to pole by his team mate Carlos Reutemann.

Many of you will know the story, but for those who don't...

After qualifying, Alan spoke with Carlos and pointed out that the pole side of the track was very dirty and he may wish to start from the other side. (The pole sitter could choose their starting position back then.)

Carlos (not being the sharpest tool in the shed) duly approached the course marshal and said he'd be starting from the outside position.

Jones then went to all the drivers on "his" side of the grid and "suggested" that cleaning up the dirty side of the track during the 1 hour morning warm-up session might benefit everyone on that side of the grid.

Everyone agreed and during warm-up all the cars (strangely, even many on the other side of the grid for some reason...) used the left side of the start/finish straight and turned the "dirty" side into the "clean" side.

It worked. Jones launched better than Reutemann and drove off into the sunset.

The moral of the story? If I were Mark Webber, I'd be having a little chat with the guys in this morning's support races...

Much better performance by Webber. His only problem is, his teammate is still starting ahead of him.

However, if Mark can keep this up, he more then deserves his Red Bull seat and a new contract. I consider Vettel possibly the fastest qualifier of the field ATM.

Agreed.

Interestingly, just looking at the on-boards and even the external video from qualifying, Seb was really "on the edge", displaying brilliant car control.

Mark seemed more conservative (obviously not wanting a repeat of Bahrain) and less ragged. Yet the difference was just .1 sec.

There's no way a driver (I don't care who they are) could stay as close to the edge as Seb was yesterday for a whole race. Whether it's concentration or tyres, - something would have to give.

I have a feeling their race pace (respectively) may be different from qualifying... Of course that would assume clear air. Bummer.

Seb messed up his third sector he lost about 0.2s. I think Webber is probably faster around this track but Seb dug deeper to stick it on pole (I agree Mark was conservative).

I watched the rerun of Q and saw that Webber was down 0.317s to Vettel's Q3 lap after he set the fastest time on sector 1. He proceeded and set the fastest time on sector 3 but his mistake in sector 2 which cost him more than 0.4s to Vettel's time netted him 1min 24.154.

Did anybody notice the mistakes that he made in sector 2 during his last flying lap in Q3?

-KB

IMHO, Webber was definitely faster than Vettel in Q3 yesterday. But Webber screwed up in sector-2, which cost him the pole position. He was lucky that Alonso did not beat him to P2; otherwise, it could have been a very bad qualifying session for him.

P2 is an OK position, but I would have expected him to be on P1.

-KB

With their best sector times strung together, they both would've moved forward just under a tenth I think.

Sure, but I'd replace 9/10ths of the field with Kimi so I'm maybe not the best person to ask. He brings a unique dimension to F1.

I think Vettel's qually shows courage and quickness, but I would say that applies to his racing as well. My expectations are not out of whack; I don't know if he'll do a champ run this season, but I am just sure he will eventually. I am not as confident in Mark, but he is a very good driver so I may underestimate him at times...