bugger... .966 slower in Q3 than Q2...

Looking at the splits they were even in Sector 1 and only 0.1 gap in sector 3 whereas Seb was a full second faster in Sector 2. So I'd say it was a mistake.

This is worse than any small sector stuff up.
To have lost this much time Mark would have had to have an obviouse error...or be on the harder tyers.
I do hope he was on different tyers because over 1s is just not acceptable when on the same fuel loads

Congrats Seb, - well done!

It's obviously a mistake Webber made since Webber and Vettel were pretty much equal. Even Lewis in his crappy handling Mclaren was faster

Once again despite all the talking up of Webber, Sebastian shows how it's done when it really counts.

I'm not sure the RBR will be as quick with fuel, so it will be difficult for Mark with Lewis, Nico and the two Ferraris ahead. I think Seb will struggle to match the red cars, but then again he has a habit of winning when he poles.

I have to admit, - in this instance you would appear to be correct.

The race will still be interesting though...

Well done to Vettel. D'oh for Webber.

Makes a dilemma for Mark. Does he risk it all over the first few laps on race day and try and grab as many positions as possible (and possibly risk abusing his tyres) or will he bide his time and wait...considering that his car is obviously very quick?

Shithouse from Webber - even without 'whatever happened' he was looking 2 to 3/10ths down on Seb anyhow.

Hoping for a better performance from him in the race - but if he's stuffed his tyres he's a bit up shit creek and will go backwards quickly.

Great job from Seb but I really get the feeling those Ferrari's are gonna swamp him pretty quickly.

Sorry, I was wrong Webber lost all his time in sector 2.

Here are the sectors

Webber 30.4 61.7 23.0
Vettel 30.4 60.7 22.9

Can someone post some sector times from Q1 + Q2? I forgot to save them and would love to obviously see their comparative s2 times.

Been quite a few times now where on that last banzai lap vettel has done a flawless effort and webber has mucked up a sector.

6th in that red bull is really quite a poor showing.

I hope this isn't an indication of another qualifying thrashing this year coming up.

I expect mark will be better in the race.

Gotta give it up to Vettel today, great pole

Webber?

Great job by the flying red bull can!

Good job by Mark in S1 and S3 of Q3, but S2


Qualy.

Seb 1
Mark 0



Has somebody seen the error?


H2H

I don't want to see the error. Really frustrating. And quite frankly, embaressing. I didn't expect Webber to qualify ahead of Vettel but being 1.1 seconds behind is unforgivable.

All hope is not lost for the season, but it's an awful start to the season.

Vettel of course is getting stronger and stronger. If he fine tunes his racecraft and all the little things, he will be very hard to beat.

Did you ever seriously hope Webber can beat Vettel?...last eyar was his best chance and he failed. Vettel is just going to get stronger and stronger.

Kimi seems poised for next year if Webber keeps his form

Don't know who shook your cage, but I'm happy for either driver to be on pole or win the race as long as it's a Redbull. When one has a good day, you don't want the other one 1.1 seconds off the pack though. It's embarressing. I support Webber longer (when Vettel was in BMW Williams T shirt watching from the pits) but want them both to do well. What's not to like about Vettel?

100% agreed.

Over the practice and qualy. both were pretty similar speedwise, but the wunderkind seems to be almost always at the highest level when you have to perform that last lap...

Great respect for Seb in this regard.


H2H

Must have just about binned it in S2 to lose a second in one sector. Happened way too often last year, Mark's maybe a one or two tenths behind then fluffs it.

He better pray he did not flat spot a tyre or he's a sitting duck. Vettel's exits from each corner were sensational, he was just NAILING every exit.

Lol that is a strange way to look at things... To put the absolutely best car in 6th position, being beaten by your team mate by more than a second is an absolutely terrible performance!!!! There is no "good job in S1 and S3, and also corner 12 and 14", this is just a very poor job, not acceptable in a top team.

Vettel is sensational everywhere. He´s the class of this field IMO.

was`nt he driving fastest car today or i missed something? ok, webber made mistake and starts too far behind to compete tomorrow but let`s wait at least few races with such speculations. tomorrow we`ll see how he can handle 2 ferraris behind and what webber can do from p6 in the fastest car.

The cars could have completely different characteristics in the initial stages of the race. Let's see what happens, long season. We just need the string together top 5 results, they've got to be focusing on that and we'll be there with 4 rounds to go.

As for qualifying. Epic Seb, very poor from Mark. I'm reasonably pleased though, the car is very solid, we're going to be in the game each race this year that's for sure. Mark has made those kind of mistakes his entire career, it's not a positive point, but it's fairly typical and hardly a "retire now!" revelation lol, he'll balls up one in three qualifying laps. I'm not too fussed about it now (having slept on it), the track was long, they only really had enough time to do one proper run. Future races, they'll be able to do two, and the first run will be just as likely to take pole as the final run (maybe 0.050 off for cleaner track?).

Any Webber fans who don't believe that, well I doubt you've been looking very closely over the years. I used to notice it a lot in Q2 when the car was midfield, half the time his first run was 2-3 tenths better than his second, while everyone else seemed to improve on their second lap, Mark would still get through and I'd shake my fist at the wasted use of a set of tyres hehe.

Well as I've said earlier in this thread, I'm backing Vettel this season (with an eye on the two Nicos R&H) and so I was smiling from ear to ear after the qualifying. I didn't think that Mark's performance was unusual; he met my expectations. I love the way Nico keeps slipping in under the radar - but I had expected him over Mark.

Considering he ballsed up the lap, it could be a lot worse than 6th. Mark's not too shabby in race conditions, and the Red Bull is fast, so see if he can make up places during the race.

It'll be fascinating to see how the race develops.

Yeah as much As Im a huge Webber fan, hats off to Seb for a brilliant quali effort. Mark stuffed up S2 which is disappointing but 6th is still a decent spot to start from. Mark usually drives a good race so can't wait. He just needs to get his qualli sorted but its only the first race. A long season to go..

Umm they haven't even had one race yet just qualifying and you are singing his demise? Since when does qualifying results make a persons career?

Kimi fans are lol. Swear black and blue that WRC is awesome, it's real driving, he's loving it, he's having fun etc. But then they're dying for him to come back

Autosport Q&A with Webber

As disappointed as every Webber fan is feeling, I'm sure Mark is feeling it even more so.

But lets keep things in perspective - it's the first qualy at the first race of the year. A long way to go yet - last year started off in a similar fashion and we still had a pretty good tussle between Mark and Seb over the season. He's not finished just yet...

Hoping for a better race from Mark - although having Schumacher nearby could make for an interesting first start lol...

Yeah I'm sure hes having a great time rallying ;)

I wouldn't be worried about Schumi, I'd be worried about getting stuck behind guys like Lewis for the first stint and then having all of the guys from p11 back jumping them when the top 10 guys pit (goes for SebVet too).

The thing about Mark is that he is a glass half empty kind of guy. He's honest and says what he is thinking - but what he is thinking is that the glass is half empty. It is very noticbable because his teammate is a glass 1/2 full kind of guy and generally much more positive. I dont' think it matters at all to their racing - but I think Mark might come across as more gloomy when things don't go right than he actually should be.

I think its actually more that he is a realist and straight shooter. At least he admits his mistakes and doesn't blame the car etc.

Well Mark can be real and a straight shooter and still see things from a half empty point of view. He reminds me of David Coulthard in that regard, all doom and gloom a lot of the time. I tend to listen to him with an unsympathetic ear for that reason like when he was whining about people (most recently Massa, but HAM, RAI & SUT also) not caring about the GPDA; or young whipper snappers like Vettel "f" everything up, and just his way of setting forth his opinion at times (like in that linked Q&A). Anyway, that is my view of Mark, but I would imagine fans see him differently based on their perspective of him.

Webber keeping the seat warm for kimi If RB want to win the WCC they should put Webber in Toro Roso mid season and bring back Kimi

I'm a huge Raikkonen fan and I would love to see him back in F1, but I wouldn't wish him to be associated with any company that would do this:



Frankly, I wouldn't wish a company like that on on anybody. Kimi has caught the rally bug big time - I can see why, it looks like wild and crazy fun and he's in it for the season. Meanwhile, Mark and Seb are racing RBF1 tomorrow...

Q1

Seb

30.7 61.2 23.3 = 1:55.360
30.7 61.1 23.1 = 1:55.029

Mark

30.7 61.3 23.2 = 1:55.363
30.6 61.2 23.3 = 1:55.298

Q2

Seb

30.3 60.6 22.9 = 1:54.035
30.3 60.6 22.9 = 1:53.883

Mark

30.4 60.8 22.9 = 1:54.318
30.4 61.0 22.8 = 1:54.328

Seems that during all the qualy. Mark more troubles than Seb to nail S2. and was usually slower in the other ones...


Thanks for the info.


H2H

come off it - webber said vettel f'd it up with good cause - he was the first time in his career looking like he had a *outstanding* chance of winning that race and he got punted out in the most ridiculous circumstances - then a mic was shoved in his face seconds after he got out of the car. What do you expect him to say?

I am neither a RBR or Web fan and yet even I cant read that without thinking "what a load of crap"

Come off what? I was cracking up when he said it - I thought it was hilarious and was highly entertained. Perhaps it isnt' too good for the kids, but for my part I thought it made things more interesting. But what do you want me to conclude about it - even if it was an expected thing to say and he had 'good cause' - that it was positive? It wasn't. It was the negative doom and gloom we always get from Mark in my view. But it was funny and I don't dislike him for it - it is what it is.

This is the Vettel vs. Webber thread, not another opportunity to drag Raikkonen into a discussion.

I'd like to challange anyone to come up with a positive spin for the events of the 18 hours he had before that comment.

I can't say I really subscribe to the "negative doom and gloom" theory, maybe the last half of '06, other than that he's usually pretty chipper I would've thought.

Vettel seems to be consistently a few tenths faster than Webber on fumes on this track (even ignoring Webber's Q3 mistake):

Vettel - Webber time difference
Q1 - run 1: - 0.003s
Q1 - run 2: - 0.269s
Q2 - run 1: - 0.283s
Q2 - run 2: - 0.445s
Q3 - run 1: - 1.183s (would still be about -0.5s according to the Q&A above where Webber mentioned that he lost 6.5 tenths)

The difference increases from Q1 to Q3. That's similar to last year, where Vettel could often get out that extra bit on the final lap, where Webber sometimes did not improve. Here in Bahrain the difference between them is quite large, but I expect Webber to be closer in most other races.

Anyway, good start for Red Bull, which I'm happy about. Most people talked about Ferrari, Alonso, MS, McLaren wings etc., so Red Bull / Vettel could concentrate on their work. I'm worried about tyres for the race. I believe Vettel needs to build a gap between him and Sutil / Rubens, such that he won't get stuck after the pirst stop.

Good luck to Mark tonight. He will need a bit from row 3. Vettel IMHO did a great job (great not cliche overstatement, truly great). The onboard shots over hos shoulder are sensational and really show his mastery around this track. I laugh at those idiots here who are saying RB = best car. How do they arrive at that position before race 1 of a new formula year is even run???

I think the season between these two could easily be similar where they have different track preferences. There were times last year when Mark was in a class of his own and his teammate just wasn't quite there. Today the gap overstates the real difference between the two but we have to wait and see how tyre management works through.

Can't wait to cross over to the Ferrari and Mercedes forums to see some crow being eaten.

This'll do me, Webber loses his customary spot when he pits (it's like clockwork yeah) and is having an awesomely shit race.

Ricciardo where art thou?

Interesting race. Vettel and Red Bull were the fastest combination on the track, but to win the car must hold up. Seb perfectly controlled the race with very smooth and careful driving and drove afterwards a heroic end part with a broken discharge pipe and a dramatic loss of engine power. Excellent handling of both the tyres and the fuel.

Seb


Mark lost that place at the start, could do little to nothing behind cars which were a lot slower and even lost a place at the box. He throw the race away during Q3. Behind he pushed perhaps too aggressively, but understandably, putting the car and the tyres at a greater risk.

Mark ...


Qualifiying

Seb 1

Mark 0


Racing

Seb 1

Mark 0


Mechanical troubles

Seb 1

Mark 0


Strategic blunders

Have yet to look at the Webber pitstop, but IIRC Red Bull had to keep the box free to allow Seb to counter Alonso's stop.



H2H

Vettel did very well to keep it together. Those points might be very important at the end of the year.

Absolute shocker from Webber. One of his worst drives in a long time.

Vettel

Great drive and deserved more.

Mark

Schumi put the muscle on him in T2 and then somehow got jumped by Button in the pitstop (perhaps was held in box while a car passed and that let Jenson jump him?).

This weekend was Vettel's - hoping for a better race for Mark in Oz, but he hasn't had great results there over the years either...

What's clear is that qualifying is absolutely critical like never before. Unles syou had a 2 second advantage passing was near impossible, i've never seen the cars look so HOPELESS behind another car.

Webber has to get his qualifying shit together quickly.

I tell you what else i don't get, why drivers don't sit down with an engineer and figure out the first sequence of corners. It was clear as ****ing day that anyone going up the inside at T1 would be ****ed by T3 yet Webber goes that route when he had a clear choice not to.

I mean **** me .... think it through.