The owner put team under (undue?) pressure, MW especially. I would not like to hear from my boss "if you win, of course we will not trade you" (for Kimi). WTH it means then if I don't win? Especially this year when cars, two weeks prior Bahrain, seems very closely matched, and for MW to win, he needs to beat another at least 7 drivers in comparable cars, who are very close to him, just as good, or even better then him. This is not very easy, and next to event free season, some luck will be needed as well.

Pretty sure most teams will still realize that Mark is a quick and experienced driver surely of value having around. He may not get no.1 status in a top team, but surely he cant be lumped in with the 'no other option' group of drivers? Getting beaten by one of the highest rated drivers on the grid is never something to be 'shamed' by. Webber is still up there. Vettel's just a tough cookie.

Yes Vettel is a very good driver, but I still think Mark is being underrated by alot of people. As I have mentioned in other threads there was 4 or 5 races last year where he didn't score points due various issues such as a slow car (Spain) , bad luck (punted off at Italy, unsafe pit release Spa), brake failure (Singapore) and Japan (2 x loose headrest, puncture). In other words those issues were out of his control. Mark drove well during races last year and if not for those issues and missing out on a decent haul of points he could have well been a chance at WDC right until the end. He has only had a fast car for 1 year and did a very good job especially when you put aside the issues that were outside his control as I just mentioned. Mark is almost 100% fit and has plenty of ammo for extra motivation this year so I would not be surprised to see him taking it up another level as long as the RB6 is quick and reliable *touch wood*;)

I predict Vettel and Webber very close this year, but like Jense and Lewis, they will work very well together... until one is clearly in front.

Marks biggest problem driving F1 is that he is really too big. He is as skinny and fit as anyone but taller and broader than most and at a guess a bit heavier too.
I can remember watching him here in FF and he was generally faster than most but he almost sat on the car not in it, and he was a tenager then.

his height/weight wont be an issue this year with the cars minimum weight being moved up so he can play with the ballast without the penalty

While the penalty is minimised, a tall driver is still at a slight disadvantage over a smaller one surely?

He's still taller and heavier so would carry more weight higher up than a smaller driver - all things being equal I would've thought a smaller driver would still be more ideal than a taller one...

Last year that was the definitely the case and Mark did not have much ballast to play with compared to Seb, and I don't think it was a coincidence Mark seemed to perform better after the big update where they moved the cars weight forward. Im not sure about how much they have raised the min weight but afaik drivers like Webber, Kubica won't be penalized as much if at all. Correct me if im wrong!

Min weight went up from 605 to 620 Kgs this year, enough to negate some of the disadvantage to the non-jockey sized guys.

Webber seems to have no doubts he will win this year:

Would be nice to see a driver do a victory lap with national flag again, Mark did a few donuts after Abu Dhabi, although of course both the BBC commentary and the FIA race review said it was Seb doing it!

Rossi is crazy. I don't think FIA will allow any F1 driver to do a Rossi-style victory lap

edit: ( since even donuts are not allowed anymore )

But he has a big disadvantage this year since the car is designed for Vettel. So no chance for Webber this year. Last year was his best shot for the WDC unfortunetly.

Webber would have to be the leanest driver on the grid? His body fat looks really low, he obviously works hard at keeping the unnecessary weight down.

You get my point?

Newey said a few months ago the car was designed for Mark, but he meant max tolerances to suit the biggest driver. There is no geometry design or anything that suits one driver over the other.

He is no taller than Jenson Button who seems to have done alright. It's certainly not an advantage over the smaller guys, but is a tired old excuse.

look this is not really true. For starters we heard the same talk about the 2009 car - mark has said himself that he and vettel like the car setup in a similar way.

This is no big deal and was probably a bit of out of context talk by newey.

I didn't realise that Jenson was so tall - he never gets mentioned as one of the taller guys like Kubica and Webber do.

I understand that the increase in weight will help to offset the disadvantage that taller drivers had last year, but I thought that theoretically there would still be a slight disadvantage compared to a smaller more compact driver. It may be 5/8ths of f*ck all but like I said all things being equal, the smaller driver *should* in theory have a slight benefit in terms of CoG. But don't worry I won't be using it as an excuse...

They're about the same height

Both above 1m80. Surreal to think in F1 that's 'tall' but it is.

As you say, shorter drivers should have a small benefit but it's not possible to calculate or prove it at all.

I've got a photo of me next to Webber at a function last year, and I think he's a bit taller than what he's listed at. I'm 5'11, and he's got an inch or two on me.

No, I dont. Most talented drivers have a place in F1. Just cuz the odd one gets shuffled off the grid doesn't mean it'll happen to everybody.

I'm just saying - it can happen.

Who is his manager nowadays anyway?

How tall is Kubica? You don't hear anywhinging about his height/weight disadvantage and he can drive rings around old Mr Cut-You-Up Webbo.

Excuses, excuses. Is that why he has to chop other drivers' wings off?

Not using it as an excuse at all. So tell me, which drivers 'wings' has Webber chopped off?

Not saying its absolutely not possible.

Just that talented drivers are typically 'wanted' by teams.

Ofcourse there will be other teams available for him, but I don't see him moving to McLaren/Ferrari/Mercedes. I doubt he will leave Red Bull soon anyway.

EDIT: Oops, too quick

You're right, they are wanted. Was just using Heidfeld as an example of a wanted driver by multiple teams and it still didn't happen because of circumstances. Heidfeld saw no option in smaller teams and I doubt Webber does.

Whereas actors add several inches to their billed height, F1 drivers tend to take a few off!

Can we please get back to the topic: Vettel vs Webber 2010

Actually, you would be wrong - http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2009/3/9014.html

That's rather funny.

Should be a tight battle again this year between Seb and Mark. I think it might come down as one of the highlights of 2010 but for that to happen it might well require Mark to get back to best in qualy and regain his confidence for pulling a tenth out of nowhere when it matters.

Kubica is referring to a question about KERS, a system weighing additional 30-40 kgs. In contrary to BMW, Red Bull never used it.

Seeing as webber and kubica have never driven the same car against each other, we can put this little line down to classic internet trollage material.

Pretty sure this is a Webber vs Vettel thread. In which Webber wins hands down......

Ok I probably shouldn't troll on my first post!

I think it's gonna be a ding dong battle between the two. I rate both drivers highly and think if the cars fast enough either of them can win the WDC. I'd have to put my money on Vettel though, he just seems the most passionate and most obsessed about winning.....out of all the drivers. Has anyone else noticed that after each win last year he said "yes we have finally done it!" both in the cockpit and in the press interviews. Dude! What are you on about! He's crazy in the head I tell ya.... and as a Webber fan it scares me!

It will be an interesting year. I believe that Webbo will be fighting for his job. Boss Man DM's comment about Kimi could be taken as very unsettling. Webbo IS getting older and if he doesn't continue to show improvement it may be too little too late. Vettel started the year with a wild streak but later on pinned his ears back and gave it his all to catch Button. Coming as close as he did should be nothing but fuel for his fire.

Will youthful exhuberance or veteran will win out?

I vote Vettel the better driver.

Krap is right, you can increas ethe weight of the car all you like, the smaller guy still has some inherant advantage. Things look way better this year thought witht he weight thing helping mark, stronger legs, narrower front tyres and low fuel Q3.

He really could not ask for more.

Huh? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

I am staggered this is so hard to comprehend. Sure if the car was 1200KGS there'dbe bugger all difference but a shorter guy has his weight lower and a lighter guy has more ballast to play with. Just because the car is 15kg heavier doesn't mean only Webber gets the extra 15kg to play with, Vettel does too.

He'll still lose to Vettel IMO.

Oh I see. So dead weight is lighter than live weight then. Gee, I must tell my horse trainer friend the good news. He´s always thought putting a jockey up who is very close to the limit in a handicap race is better than putting a light weight rider in the saddle with a big bag of lead.
Gee, he will be thrilled at the news.
Oh and one other thing. Why is the shorter guy´s weight lower? Is his seat different?
I love this forum. One can learn such a lot.

I've never said otherwise.

Honestly, this is the worst post ever. A horse is a horse, all 600KG up on stilts of it. It's hardly pulling 3G through a corner FFS!!!

Dead is not lighter than live weight but the last place you want weight in an F1 car is up high, as in a drivers upper body. You want weight (if youmust carry it) distributed low int he car where it helps balance.

I am STUNNED I need to explain this, ever notice how thin and short most drivers are. Ever wondered why??????

I thought it was because they smoked as kids.

Perhaps you have, seeing it's so difficult for you to understand this simple logic.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Thanks.

Vettel’s upper body and head are pretty much in the same position as Webbers, because his seat is just higher. If he would sit as low as possible, his visibility would be compromised.



And according to Newey in an interview on redbullracig.com from Feb. 10, 2010, the car is designed around Webber.

The-Newey-Files

Do the different heights of Sebastian and Mark affect design?

Adrian Newey: The car has to be designed around Mark, which means the cockpit has to be a bit longer than the minimum regulation and the fuel tank has to be moved rearwards slightly because fuel is not allowed to be stored ahead of the driver’s back. Once we’ve done that then fitting the shorter driver in, Sebastian, is relatively easy.

Wow.

Ok.

Let me try to explain then...

For instance, Webber weights 75kg. Vettel 65kg. (I really have no idea, guessed). The 10kg Webber has extra in bodyweight, Vettel can put on the bottom of the car as ballast. That ballast weight is lower in the car then Webber's extra bodyweight. Hence the (even if it's the slightest) advantage for shorter and lighter drivers.

Pff.

What proof have you to support your theory? How do you know how a minimal weight difference and where it´s placed effects the overall performance of, in particular, a F1 car?

Yeah go on tell your horse trainer that if his horses can run so fast that their hooves cannot effectively achieve grip on the track it would help, but seeing as they don't run that fast and the turns on a turf track are so gentle that there is no g loading putting the weight where you want won't mater, but try this one with your horse trainer ask him to have the jockey sit on the horses head or put the handicap weight on one of its legs for the race see how that turns out for you see if that upsets the balance of the horse at all.

You understand that handicap racing has nothing to do with ballast as the weight carried by the horse is to even the field not meet a minimum racing weight across the field.

You may love the forum but I highly doubt your second claim in your case.

I’ am sure, Webber is sitting as low as possible and that means on the floor. I doubt, that it’s possible to place any ballast significantly lower as the position of Webbers butt.

It's a ****ing full moon honestly.

Here's aplace to start fellas ... weight distribution 101. http://formula-one-racing-guide.blogspot.c...few-pounds.html

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns02353.html