And the red Bulls were losing chunks of time to the mclaren in some sectors as well due to the kers advantage. Hamilton had a winning car for the second half of the season. Better than the Brawns and at least on par with Red Bull.

As for Heikki...... well in 2008 he hardly got a sniff at podiums as well even though it was the best car. Heikki just isnt a top driver like LH,MW and SV.

have to correct you there my friend. Webber had to deal with the same terrible conditions as seb in Q1 and just did a better job. seb was just slow in the wet (very out of character). Webber dominated that weekend from start to finish. from fuel adjusted pole to the race win on sunday.

You are kidding? HK looked useles sat Renault, looked useless in 08 and useless in still in 09. Using him as a baseline is insane and I regard Hamilton as the flat out best driver on the grid, he is gonna be a superstar that kid. TheMclaren was fast, pleant fast once they figured it out, add KERS to the mix and they could qualy with extra fuel too and know full well they'd blow past the two rows in front of them.

I'm not as impressed by the 09 RB as others are, it was a pure Newey car. Mega in fast corners and wonderful lapping on ti's own but in traffic it looked cumbersome and unwieldy, other cars looked way more chuckable when offline, the RB seemed to gather time by driving like you do on a simulator where you nail each apex and carry speed corner through corner. In a race, when either driver was fighting for position or was not ont he perfect line for whatever reason, the car looked .... unwilling ... compared to others.

You dont that was more to do with the woeful Renault engine ?

Well maybe not entirely; Webber was quoted that track came back to him (got grip). Seb's misfortunes at Interlagos, Horner suggested, were not as much that Webber was doing so much better job of it, as it had to do more with luck, or lack of thereoff; Seb could not get a clean (unobstructed) run when opportunity arose to have it go on a drier track. This BTW is main reason why I do not like elimination trials. Incidents like these have nothing much to do with driving skills, but can cost you a championship and all what goes with it.

4 pole positions and 5 podiums in the last 9 races was due to the development of the car - not Lewis Hamilton.


...there's something new from a driver.....


Heikki is best suited to driving taxis....... in Bombay.......on half pay.

...and no - personally - I don't buy Autosport to figure out what my opinion should be.

I think the KERS gave about 2 tenths straight line advantage but lets not forgot the poor weight distribution and the braking inbalance the system gave, if the McLaren was the fastest car the other teams should be copying it and not the Red Bull. Also as far as KERS is concerned i remember Vettel complaining about not being able to pass Massa's KER powered Ferrari to which Massa replied you can have my KERS if i can have your downforce.

As far as Heikki is concerned he had a win, 2nd and 3rd in 2008, also lost out on a comfortable 2nd in Australia before the SC came out, i'd also debate the fact that i believe the Ferrari was the fastest car in 2008 anyways

Heikki was good enough to be Fisi

Well if you think that Webber and Vettel are on the same level as Lewis then thats your opinion, lets see how Jenson does this coming season

http://www.f1technical.net/news/14226



Don't let the door hit you on the way out mate.

I don't think they are but what took Hamilton half a season to figure out how to win? You make zero sense, why did Hamilton qualify outside the top 10 so often in the first half then inside the top 5 so often in the second half, was he asleep? Ofcourse he wasn't, they figured out the car ... it's not fecking brain surgery. I swear to god people don't watch the races but still post here.

Off course they improved the car and it was competitive from Germany onwards, the arguements tend to come when suggesting the McLaren was the fastest car

I think Alfisti would do well to review the 2007 season regarding Heikki Kovalainen. He had no trouble beating his much more experienced F1 race winner and pole sitter Fisichella during the season. His only retirement of the season came in Brazil when his rear suspension broke and he crashed. The rear suspension was likely damaged in the first turn collision with another car which hit his rear wheel.

Perhaps you remember the first race when Briatore unfairly criticised Heikki publicly. That may have affected your memory and you recall that and say "Heikki sucked in 2007" like a broken grammar, completely ignoring the rest of the season. I think this may be what has happened.

In some races it clearly was, in others it wasn't.

The thing is, the two years before that Fisichella was amongst the worst drivers on the grid. HK showed nothing sopecial at all, i never, ever understood the fuss over the lad. Search my name with Kovalainen \or HK and you'll see i have been very consistant from day one saying he looks very, very average.

Maybe he is joking. But Kimi's shadow is on horizon.

I dont know what your problem is, but you really need an attitude adjustment mate.

I see...

My goodness, I suppose we know where you stand!

No disrespect intended but I have to ask....

Why would you be bothered posting in a thread marked "Vettel vs Webber 2010" when comments like that make it clear that you can not have an objective opinion?

Of course any driver could have got the same results?

Guess what the new McLaren is better so watch out

We'll see how Heikki matches up against Trulli

While others read what the experts have to say in order to get a better understanding

The McLaren was at least a second off the pace, they improved it and closed the gap somewhat, the car at seasons end still lacked serious downforce in comparison in particular to the Red Bull and the Brawn, they didn't figure it out completely.

This years car appears to have competitive downforce

So Hamilton, on some tracks, was 1.5 seconds a lap faster than vettel.

You are dead set kidding.

Fisichella was highly rated before he was teamed up with Alonso, he was similarly rated as Webber, drivers who had done well against their teammates and done well with underperforming cars, just needing a chance in a WDC capable car. Fisichella came up well short of the task, Webber had a WDC capable car last year.

Which tracks were they?

^ ....... and made pretty good use of it.

It was only a WDC capable car when it got a double diffuser, btw.

You're 11 months late!

With all due respect, I think MW would be more likely to take exit advice from Kimi rather than you....perhaps, although I can't see MW overpricing himself and then underperforming to the point that nobody wants him.

No.
Fisichella was highly rated before he put in some very ordinary performances in very good car.

Let's start with Singapore where he finished 20+ seconds ahead of vettel.

Didn't he get a drive through penalty at that race?

Well he has an opinion, and you know what it is, but there's nothing to say that it's not objective...

It was a polite way of saying "troll".

Objectivity: "the ability to perceive or describe something without being influenced by personal emotions or prejudices" or, "the fact or quality of being accurate, unbiased, and independent of individual perceptions".

You should probably re-read his posts.

Seems your definition of the word "objective" is somewhat different from that described in any dictionary I can find...

Yep, that was totally unfair! Does somebody remember which position he was before the drive through? I thought he was in P2? Vettel cannot be compared to Webber. I rate Hamilton and Vettel as the most talented drivers in F1 for the last 3 yrs.

Without the Kubica icrash in Australia (P3) and the unfair drivethrough (for speeding in pitlane, where RD proved later that was not the case) in Singapore (P2?) Vettel maybe would be WC now

Hmm Objective Opinion however is the offending term and that is an oxymoron in my opinion, which may have some objective backing, which I think though I may be subjectively wrong is what Buttoneer was on about.

Without his Red Bull failures alone, had he have maintained grid positions, I worked out he would have won it anyway.

I worked out the points a few days ago and he would have won the WDC by about 4 points. I think it was 97 to 93 (as Button would have been demoted due to Vettel finishing higher).

Even with the mistakes if the Red Bull had been as reliable as the Brawn, Vettel would have been the WDC. However that is if's and but's. It didn't happen.

Lol, that is a nice summary Do you think he will win it this year? I think he will if the Renault engine is more reliable in the new season.

I respectfully disagree (at least I think I do... ). "Not" being the operative word:


I'm sure we all know DrF's agenda.

I would be very happy to see him winning it this year.

The first time I saw him race in 2007 when he replaced Kubica, I had a funny feeling that he might be one to watch for the future. I thought it was a very mature drive for a 9 year old. Although he lost a place, I was seriously impressed.

I am a Ferrari fan and want Ferrari to get the WDC and WCC however I would be happy if Vettel or Schumacher won the WDC as well.

Yes Hamilton and vettel are great drivers but I still think Mark is just starting to show what he can achieve in a good car and might just turn around some opinions this year. He has done some of the best passing moves of anyone recently better than Hamilton and Vettel which everyone loves to see. Just look at the pass around Button in the wet at China and the repass on Alonso under braking on the main straight at the Spanish GP. Takes guts and talent to be able to pull off those moves. Plus he was injured last year. Was more consistent than Vettel with less mistakes and wasn't that far behind in the final points total. Respect.

In the unlikely event they could have achieved total reliability with absolutely no pit errors, the RedBull drivers could even have been 1st & 2nd in the WDC last year.

Unfortunately, this is the real world and as a young team, they made mistakes which cost them dearly.

Hopefully, they'll have learned from those errors and both drivers will be the beneficiaries of that experience this year.

I thought we were friends?

You mean the USA 07 race? He finsidhed 8th there wasn't he? I bought a few of his 1/18 BMW model cars in 2008 because I also liked him more and more and those model cars are now a nice investment.

I hope Lewis or Vettel wins it this year, I also hope Buemi and B. Senna (if he may race) will do well.

Isn't that what i already said?

Try again Alf

Yeah qualified 7th finished 8th (if my memory is right, but I've had a few sleeps since then).

As soon as he got the drive at STR I was excited about it. I looked forward to see how he did with a backmarker team. I suppose he just stood out as a future WDC. Gut instinct made me follow him. Helps that he's quite funny as well.

There is no reason for people not to be friends just because they support different teams.

Most of my friends (who actually like F1) are Mclaren fans or former Brawn fans. That has probably got something to do with both drivers being British. However, because of where I live, we all want Virgin to do well.

I also want Senna to do well. He seems like a really nice guy.

Leaving aside the question of what objectively might constitute a 'top performance', this amounts to a pretty big incentive for MW. If he needs one.

FWIW, I think Kimi has done his dash with the top teams, I think they need someone who is more complete than just a fast driver. So I do not see him in a front ranked team in 2011, and I will be mildly surprised if he returns at all.

Back on topic, what would be your criteria for assessing MW as giving a 'top' performance? Points away from SV (if he is in front that might be sufficient ), starting positions, team wins CC ...

You'd run Heidfeld before you run KR surely? He's absolutelty mailing it in.

I imagine DM means that MW needs to be pushing SV and getting similar results, the same as 2009.

I think Mark is more than capable of this and will deliver, hence we'll see him in a Red Bull Racing cockpit in 2011 but again on a one year deal.

Mark could get a 2 or 3 year deal a bit further back on the grid, like Trulli, but I dare say he's happier in a front running car with less job security. He's backing his own abilities to perform.

Well Mark's at that stage of his career that I am sure money is no problem for him, but keeping a drive in a potentialy race winning car is. As you say I am sure he'd rather have another 1 year contract with a team fighting at the front than another 3 years in the midfield - he's already been there and done that...

He's quite lucky Red Bull moved it up a notch in 2009. Actually Vettel is the lucky one as he didn't have to wait 2 years before they did so.

For Mark, he should stay at Red Bull as long as he can as I don't see any other options for him at the moment.

edit: grammar

Unless Mark wins the championship, then Red Bull would be his only hope for a top drive for the future.

Either way the pressure is on this year.