Hurrah, another weekend of this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSbjlxwwyPI

Strictly for the times (I don't know what the situation is for Freeview - I have read on DigitalSpy F1 forum that FP2 and Forum are not on Freeview this weekend due to CWG)

FP1 0200-0330
FP2 0600-0730
FP3 0300-0400
QUAL 0600-0700
RACE 0700

No forum on freeview

Oh well, BTCC'll be on by then

I player will do it. I'll be missing the forum too, as I play football on Sunday morning.

Times are 5 am to 7.30 and 6 till 9.10 for the race.

I had a strange dream last night where I asked Jake if JL was being replaced? He said he couldn't say. Can't really believe I dream about things like this. Although I read something from a national newspaper website that it's more than a rumor that he being replaced.

I was just watching this again, says it all really.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikasr6UkqY8...feature=related

Bring back Murray http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI4zeSEWDxg...feature=related

With you every day of the week and twice on Sundays there

The UK's version of the neo-cons harp on about the license fee as though it's a Stalinist remnant, but compared to what I get from my basic Sky family package at £25 a month (1.5 times as much as the license fee) it's a total bargain. On a race weekend, I'm utterly spoiled like never before. Classic races on the Web site along with loads of other video, free practice 1/2/3, the build-up content they do for qually and the race (some of it so-so, some excellent), the post-race forum and then the whole lot available on iPlayer for another 7 days so I can gorge on F1. Top quality coverage for a top quality season. Good times!

I saw that too. I'd never heard Croft before. He's certainly much better than Legard, though just a little too enthusiastic for a bog standard qualifying session imo, it sounds a bit manufactured...still, if it's him or Legard, he's definitely worth a go.

That's just one example of an important hot lap really. He doesn't commentate like that when there's a Virgin trundling around in Q1.

Try it for one of the sessions this weekend, or for one of the practices on iPlayer. He's a million times better than Legard.


On another topic, just found this of Brundle on YT! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qAO-mODc0E...feature=related

Radio and TV commentary are very different. I think that style of commentary would get grating after a while on TV (I know its shown on red button too).

I'm sure the maker of the video has no agenda, but maybe he's taken the worst possible Legard lap to contrast?

Having said all this I'd much rather have Crofty.

No, they're not. There is no difference - commentary is commentary. Croft and Davidson work equally well on TV - they don't grate at all IMO. Far from it - it's pure entertainment with those two.

With Legard you just get mumbling, staccatoed sentences and toe curling silences as he runs out of things to say.

There's a massive difference. It's right in front of your eyes in fact.


I think Croft is overrated personally. Though to be fair he's usually aliented me so much after Friday practice I've never bothered to listen to him for qualifying or the race.

Rubbish, the 2 are very different. TV is a visual medium, the commentator doe's not have to paint a picture for us. The radio commentator has to not only tell us what is happening in the race, but paint that picture as well. A simply "Driver x overtakes Driver y" would be fine on TV as we could see it happen, but would suck on radio as you have no idea how the overtake actually transpired.

I've not actually listened to his Q or race coverage, but I would expect it to be very different to the FP coverage as that only goes out on the TV.

The reason the radio coms works so well for me is because the radio commentary is great in itself, but with the addition of pictures you can enjoy it even more.

If they were commentating for TV I don't think they would be as good, well they would be different.

But Legard's commentary is usually limited to simple descriptive comments about what he is seeing on his screen - takes a left, up the hill, runs wide... It's like he is describing a GP for someone who A) Is blind so cannot see the screen for themselves, and B) Doesn't actually know what a car or a race track looks like because of A. While Legard spends time doing that he's not doing what Crofty does, which is get the sense of speed and occasion across at the same time as pointing out many of the important twitches and mistakes and overtaking opportunities that viewers with less experience may miss.

Though Crofty is more descriptive, it's almost like their jobs are reversed and Legard is actually commentating for Radio Mental Retard. Personally I can put up with it, it doesn't annoy me all that much, but I do feel he is a bit pointless and sometimes think that having just Brundle alone occasionally pointing out the important bits and just engine noises for the rest of the race would be preferable. I scream and shout at the screen myself when stuff happens, so I drown out Legard quite a lot anyway ;)

Umm, ever watched FIA GT with Crofty on the booth?

Classic F1 - Japan
- 1990
- 1993 (extended)
- 1995

Or when he did GP2 for that matter. He spent most of the time shrieking if I recall correctly.

Legard isn't particularly good, but some of the flack he gets on this thread borders on the ridiculous. Some of you might enjoy the coverage more if you weren't on the lookout for his mistakes so you can nitpick afterwards.

D.M.N. are we getting a fan forum (red button thingy)? Appears not to be the case.

Well I can say for me, it's not about "mistakes". Everyone makes mistakes. You could probably count Crofty making more mistakes than Legard. Walker made loads of mistakes.

It's the total lack of charm, passion and interest that puts me off. I don't think that's particularly ridiculous.

I think so: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_radio/5345480.stm

Formula One
0600-0915 Live coverage of the Japan Grand Prix with audio options and Onboard Camera. Interactive options not available on Freeview
0915-1015 Post-race analysis and debate hosted by Lee McKenzie. Not available on Freeview

Except Freeview viewers are basically screwed this weekend because of the Commonwealth Games.

Cheers D.M.N. As a Freeview customer looks like I'm goosed. Damn commonwealth.

And no Beeb Three edited highlights either, by the look of it (which is what I tend to keep year-on-year).

http://uk-tv-guide.com/programme-details/B...+Prix/Motoring/

Phew! Thanks D.M.M. - was relying on the coverage details appearing on the BBC F1 site (no mention of Beeb Three Highlights there - as yet).

Bollox.

No commentator says "driver x overtakes driver y" and leaves it at that because he knows you can see it. Commentary is describing what happens and then expanding on it, giving background and putting it in context.

Are you seriously suggesting 'TV' commentators don't bother with the visuals? Football commentary is 90% describing what's 'right in front of your eyes'.

If there was a difference, Radio 5 Live commentary on TV wouldn't work and everybody would be screaming "I can bloody see for myself."

Except it seems to work perfectly.

James Allen's and Murray Walker's commentary used to be full of visual descriptions. Murray's commentary on radio in the Nurburgring in 2006 was no different from his TV work. Surely Murray wouldn't have worked if there was such a thing as TV and radio commentary.

I think people have always confused Legard's failings with being a 'radio commentator' with the way he describes the action. To my mind he just doesn't have the skills or vocabulary to say anything of meaning at all, whether visual or analysis.




Yawn. Not mistakes; inability to commentate.

It seems to work perfectly because you're an internet fruitcake with a Legard fixation.

I've heard Croft do TV commentary. It sounds like someone who doesn't know how to cover televised images. He won't stop talking.

Must admit I'm not a great fan. Should sack them all and give the job to Chandhok.

Ok, a fixation on focusing on his inability of commentate. Some of you just seem like you are looking for reasons to criticise him after every race.

If you didn't fixate on him so much, then it would affect your viewing as much as it seems to.

Football commentary on the TV and on the radio is completely different. Listen to a game sometime with the radio commentary on in the background and the TV commentary on as well. Listen to how the pace and descriptions are FAR different between the two mediums. For example: On the TV, the commentator may just say the name of the player who has received the ball - Alexis - to Stonefeld - to KateLM. Whereas the radio commentary would be something like - "Alexis chests the ball down, passes down the left wing to Stonefeld, Stonefeld plays a first time pass through to KateLM..."

Night and day differences.

Yeah but according to some "he talks too much"



To be fair to him I don't think Ross has the ability to play a first time pass

Just have Martin, they dont even need two, Murry managed it for a while

James (Hunt) was a warm welcome though, for us who could sometimes be annoyed by Murray's overenthousiastic take on things.

Sticking him in there on his own will probably be the last thing he wants.

I feel Brundle's commentary really thrived when he was alongside James Allen and had someone knowledgeable to discuss the one screen action with.

You can tell Martin doesn't even like talking to Legard and hearing his cliches. He probably hates listening to him drone on even more than we do.

Exactly. Like I said earlier in this thread, people seem more interested in JL messing up, rather than the actual race. To the point where it ruins the weekend for them, it seems. Can't say I really like him as such and certainly not enough to make and watch youtube vid's about him.

Still prefer him to JA IMO though.

Same here. Really nowhere near as woeful as he's made out to be. Someone's gotta do it, and at the moment he's the one. Don't let it obscure the fact that there's a red-hot season unfolding in front of your eyes...

No, he really really really spoils it. I'm sure someone blowing a vuvuzela in your ears all race would ruin it for you too, no matter how exciting the race was.

Legard IS a human vuvuzela.

Of course, we can listen to Croft, but it's a pain in the arse for flyaways and he's not even on Freeview anymore. There is no option for him for qualifying on iPlayer. So I'll have to set my alarm, wake up and set the computer to record 5 Live, then watch it on iPlayer later, and then sync the sound and picture.

He spoils it for you. And for others. But not for everyone. And that's the key point you can't grasp. We understand you don't like him, but you can't fathom that other people don't really worry about it. We tune in to watch an F1 race afterall.

Good Luck to you Ross. I wish I knew how some people 'don't really worry about it'. We all tune in to watch an F1 race and good commentary should enhance the viewing experience but Legard fails in so many ways to achieve this. In an ideal world it would be beneficial for us all to have a decent commentator who could satisfy those who 'don't really worry about it' and those that do worry about it.

That way we will all be happy

I care about F1. My dislike for Legard and the rest of the BBC team isn't enough to overwhelm my like of F1.

And whatever anyone's feelings about the coverage, that is the thing to remember.

I have to say that after watching the race again on the iplayer, Legard did a good job at the singapore GP. He over used the word 'crucial' a bit but otherwise he was ok.

credit were its due and all that

Exactly. Why on earth the detractors cannot just sit back and enjoy what is possibly, no probably, the best F1 coverage on the planet is beyond comprehension. Having had to endure, over recent years, the abysmal coverage on RTL (German), TF1 (French), Telecinco and La Sexta (Spanish), leaves me believing that the moaners clearly haven't a clue as to how lucky they are. To sing the praises of ITV's previous coverage is equally ridiculous as it never held a carrot to what the BBC are producing.

when he's interrupting a genuinely interesting line of commentary from brundle just to go OOF! or scream because someone went over a kerb it grinds. To say it isn't worthy of complaint because it isn't bad enough to warrant switching off is missing the point, it's degrading the quality of the show for a signifigant portion of the viewers and therfore should be changed.

having watched the classing japanese GP's it reminded me that we had johnathon Palmer commentating for what 3.5 years? i had completely edited the guy out of my memory. That's innofensive commentary, not worth remembering but not worth complaining about either wheras legard will always be remembered (for the wrong reasons.)

Define significant. Internet opinons rarely extrapolate the public at large.

How do you seperate the internet from the public at large? it's been a long time since the internet consisted of techno-geeks and teenagers alone. when the vast majority of people have access to the internet then the difference between the "public at large" and the internet population becomes massivley eroded.

In essence the people here are the people in the pub, no difference.

The majority of people watching F1 on the BBC are likely to be casual fans, not ones who spend hours discussing it online on specialist forums

Anyway, according to this week's Autosport, the BBC filmed DC testing an RB6 on demo tyres at Silverstone for this week's build-up.

No, not at all. I give my opinion, as does everybody.

This is a public debating forum. Someone says "it doesn't bother me" and I say "it does bother me". At no point have I said I don't understand, or fathom anybody else's opinion. Sure, I use colourful language sometimes, but this is no different from having a discussion in a pub, as Boing has said.

There is no conclusion to any of this, and there isn't meant to be. I don't worry about EJ, but I know other people do and it spoils the buildup for them. I just ignore that subject, because it doesn't interest me. I don't complain that people should just sit back and enjoy the buildup; I just accept it's an area of debate people like to have on a public forum.