On racing:

tomorrow may well be another golden chance for Jenson and another test of character for Lewis.
It will be interesting to see who will call the pit stops this time for Lewis - he himself (like Jenson)
or somebody incompetent from the team ("We have to find out who did it!")

Jenson doesn't always call his own pit stops (or most of the time). He only took the slicks early on because he knew that was the only way to gain back some places.

WOW. Looks like LH is going to have to find himself a new team or persuade Ron and Mansour to get rid of Whitmarsh. Whitmarsh is no fool, and he seems to be very sensitve to PR and interpersonal relationships (the opposite of Ron!!) and he must realise that he has just attempted to throw LH under the bus and he must realise that there is bound to be a reaction from the LH camp. Unless he has got backing from the equity holders at Macca to do this he will need to watch his back from here on. LH will also need to watch his back. This will not end well or one of these fellows.

As a Macca fan, I'd be happy to get rid of Whitmarsh. He's too smooth for my liking. I prefer the old nerdy Macca made in the image of Ron's OCD(/mild autism?). More importanltly he has not produced the goods. He has done OK but there is nothing to suggest that there is anything exceptional about him....LH on the other hand is exceptional (and is, so far as we know, very loyal and a good influence in the team). Wonder what it would be like to have Jonathan Neale as a leader?

Just bemused, as Hamilton seemed, by the hoo ha over what was essentially a lucky gamble. I am even more bemused/worried by how excited Whitmarsh was.

Yes, I thought those remarks were very unkind, unprofessional and not totally true. Hamilton didn't come first in every championship first time and was actually cut lose by McLaren for one year. Whitmarsh is basically saying Lewis only did so well pre-F1 due to superior equipment and doesn't seem to give much credit to his talent at getting the most out of that equipment. He always had to beat his teammate in this superior equipment. Is Whitmarsh trying to push Hamilton out? Gone right off him! He's a fool if he cannot see what an asset Hamilton is to the team. Come back Ron - all is forgiven.

Hmmm... bit of context would be nice here. Whitmarsh said that the team ensured that Hamilton would come into F1 better prepared than any other rookie (and took the time to remind us of his nine podiums in a row in his first nine races, which - as he says - will likely never be repeated) - but questioned whether they had prepared him enough pyschologically; for the dissappointments he will inevitably face... He even refers to McLaren having taken one of their young protegés out of the top kart team, to have him face a little adversity.(which is where the term "experiment" is put into context; ie they have learned from their experience with Lewis... No other team has developed a driver from such a young age.)




Well, I've read and re-read the article and cannot find where he says this. I think you must have misunderstood some of what he has said.

If anything Martin Whitmarsh is defending Hamilton here, not castigating him. He's saying its not surprising that Hamilton reacts badly to adversity because their program with him didn't prepare him for it - they prepared him for constant success. In other words, he's saying its McLaren's fault, not Hamilton's.

He has said nothing that you accuse him of. He isn't saying Hamilton only won because he had superior equipment, he says that Hamilton always had the equipment available to him to win.

Do you know what...., never mind. I'm out of here. I'll let you all stew in your own paranoia and blind hero-worship.

Except that LH is a person not a component. People are responsible for their own words and actions and it is pretty demeaning to describe another person (no matter what) in the terms that Whitmarsh used. What do you think Anthony will make of these comments? What about Ron and Mansour? or LH himself?

This interview is the worst possible PR for LH. It pretty much confirms what his detractors have said for years: 1) His lower formula record is down primarily to having the best equipement (ie he is not that special) 2) he is a McLaren product who has no personality of his own (and "experiment" to use Whitmarsh's words).

These things may well be true but admitting them is not necessary and will probably be counterproductive (even putting the resentment that the interview is likely to generate to one side). LH is a product (or a brand, if you prefer) why damage the brand with unneccesary and highly negative admissions. Most of Macca's sponsors are long term but one or two such as Santander are there primarily because of LH so his brand is not without value to Macca.

Unless Whitmarsh is so convinced that LH's public profile has become so damaged that these comments would actually be helpful then this interview was either remarkably ill judged or the start of an attempt to push LH out of Macca... and I dont think Whitmarsh makes too many missteps on the PR side and certainly none as big as this.

Looks like that bit of fun in Melbourne could cost LH dearly...

A bit rich for McLaren (through Whitmarsh) to call LH... considering their line of conduct in recent years (illegal breaking system, spygate, liegate, J-damper, etc.). McLaren are far from saint, and their reputation is far worse at the moment than LH's. If it weren't for Max's and Bernie's kindness, they would have been thrown out of F1 and their business would have been bankrupt.

Frankly, there are some times when I want Lewis out of this team and on his own. I think he could do very well in a new environment. I feel this will be his next step. I don't care if he wants the McLaren F1 GT (if he wins 3 WDCs with McLaren), he has to get out of this team to mature, to grow. Call me crazy but I think he would do well in a team like Ferrari. Ferrari truly values the "human contact"; take a look at Alonso: he only has spent 6 months with the team and has already won half the team over. Lewis could do the same I figure.

As a Macca fan, I'd rather just be rid of Whitmarsh. I've had bad vibes about this guy all along... too smooth, too much of an office politician type.

Unless and until LH does something more disruptive to the team than simply complaining about a calamitous tyre call or have a minor traffic incident away from the track, I have I have no reason to want to see him gone. LH is in seriously good form and in this year's Ferrari would murder the field... even the Redbulls, I'm not sure I could stomach something like that in coming years.

But I don't think Whitmarsh is going to go away. He has been groomed by Dennis for this job, and is one of Dennis' favorites. I bet Dennis values Whitmarsh more than Hamilton. Don't forget that drivers are dependable in today's F1. Unless a scandal erupts, I doubt Whitmarsh will go anywhere. If one has to go, it will be LH, and, from the look of it, it's starting like he may be gone after 2010 (or won't renew his contract with McLaren after 2012).

Geez, how do you glean that from the minor things that have happened this year?

I am merely speculating... but it's safe to say that most defining moments, huge deals always start out as insignificant rumors and events.

LH's call at the end of the Australian GP may have been one of those. Time will tell, but I reckon Lewis has no more strings tying him to the team; Dennis and his father are gone. He has repaid McLaren by winning a WDC and by saving McLaren's season last year. Furthermore, his public image has allowed McLaren to retain a much needed sponsor in a year where McLaren will sacrifice a lot of funds to buy back its own shares.

You'd think then maybe, that Ron would place a larger interest in Lewis than in Martin then, no?

Probably not, but surely your last sentence would suggest such a thing?

Oh well, I hope they don't sever their ties, time will tell.

I'd love it if Ron was to take the helm again..........not that I have anything against Martin though.

Frankly, it's hard to tell. Whitmarsh has pretty much been No. 2 his entire life at McLaren and now has the opportunity to start fresh and lead this team. Drivers are dependable nowadays, as we have seen with Kimi, JB/RB at Brawn, etc, so Lewis' value to McLaren must have dropped when JB signed with them.

I think Whitmarsh generally doesnt think Lewis is as special as Ron thinks he is....

that is probably why he is so all max about Button

but that is gonna change though... as the season progress... watch this space.


Ron wont let Lewis leave Mclaren easy by the way

This may not be so far from the truth given Whitmarsh's comments.

Edit: I forgot to give credit where credit was due. A masterpiece from Henrytheeighth. Sorry your Highness.

Uhh, Lewis is much more important for McLaren's success than MW, anyone can do MW's job while finding someone as talented as LH took mclaren 20 years

Rubbish. There were better Karters than Lewis, that McLaren could have backed, but the face has to fit too.

Examples?

i also think that LH is more important than MW specialy for ron he brings in some big bucks i never see some t-shirts or caps ... of MW
MW also dont brings sponsors to mclaren personly MW need to be verry carrefull about his emotions
MW need to be verry carrefull because the press will notice this to
if lh will go from mclaren i think he will go to mercedes if lh go from mclaren i think mclaren will get in a downwords spiral [b]IF[b] they dont find a verry good replacment for LH
but then again i already posted my concerns about mw few pages back and i hope im wrong

yes wanne see them to the only one i can find hes always on top

there is one word in this article, which made me sit up, and made me sad
for Lewis (and for McLaren)

This is the word "EXPERIMENT" Lewis was an expertiment.

Nobody should never, nerver ever make experiments with human beings (especially children)
Nobody should ever be regarded as an human experiment
Lewis is a Human being not a laboratory rat.

This experiment was made primarily for McLaren
It looks like they wanted to cultivate a pefect driver for their perfect machines
but Lewis is not one of their expensive an beautiful machines, seems they have forgotten it sometimes
In an article, sometime ago, there was reproted, that one of Maccas senior members admitted they have forgotten sometimes of Lewis humanity, and will never make this "mistake" again.
Uhh, Hello !
this sounds for me like "Frankenstein McLaren and their nice little monster."
McLaren has used Lewis, for their purposes (and their & his succsess)

and now?
experiment finnished?
game over?
I hope not
It looks like, they realzised something

Of course they did Lewis no physically harm, and I think they did everything with no ill intents
(& Anthony has also played his part, in this game)

But would Martin and Ron have done this with their own children?

The face, and if I were nasty, I would say his (Lewis) background

Gonna be hella funny when Lewis has a great result this weekend or later and all you paranoid Lewis fans suddenly forget everything you just said when Lewis is hugging and kissing MW and the team.

Have you ever been to any Kart race meetings ? (just gauging if you're genuinely interested, or being an ar##)

It was a £50k-£100k+ year sport at that that level (for which McLaren fully supported Lewis). Quicker drivers come an go but have budget problems and hit a financial wall. It's probably not right to start throwing kids names around, but we can go all the way back to World Karting champion Terry Fullerton who was Senna's rival in Karting, Mike Wilson in the 1980s (the last British world champion before Oliver Oakes). And McLaren could have groomed a whole line of Italian world champions (of which Lewis wasn't) in recent times.

i have no problem with that
like i said this are my personal feelings and that i hope im wrong
only time will tell i gues

Lewis won everything in karting, almost literally.

But anyway, karters are not enough for F1. The karters have to step up to formula racing, and Lewis was able to step up (not every karter ace can do it), winning Formula Renault UK, Formula 3 Euroseries and GP2 Series.

Could this be one of the reasons Anthony is no longer Lewis's manager??????

Edited: Forgot the key word "manager". Now it may make sense.

Lewis drove in selected championships and wasnt world champion.

True, not all Karters are suited to single seater racers, but they learnt their trade in Karting and many simply ran out of budget. Current drivers have jumped straight out of a Kart and put Formula BMW on pole. Or kimi only 20 odd races in cars before F1. Obviously the current F1 drivers are deserving, but to say there was nobody better than them is wrong.

Asking for some facts isn`t a person being an arse. However, getting defensive when asked for them doesn't show yourself in the best light.

There may be great drivers in Karting, but some of them are no more than. Great in a Kart, slow in everything else. Just come out and say it, I know what you're thinking. You think that Lewis is nothing more than an average driver, who has lucked into his spot at McLaren and that's all there is to it.

You're entitled to this opinion, but if you're going to voice it in a forum, it's generally considers a good thing to be able to back up your assertions rather than just relying on some intrinsic knowledge that is beyond the layman, because they don't attend Kart meetings.

Don't take offense fenixracing but this did make me laugh (I hope you do too!)

"the only one i can find"........"hes always on top"

Maybe Lewis realized something, by growing up
and makes his first steps out of the "golden cage" in which he was, the most time of his life

yes got it hahahaha didnt notice that
im sorry my english isnt that great i now im from belgium im sorry if my english comes with something weird

That's OK....
Glad you appreciated too.

ofcourse who wouldnt

Well now you are being an arse. You didnt ask for facts you asked for examples, I wasn't prepared to start throwing kids names around. You've certainly made yourself look bad, because I think Lewis is the quickest driver in F1 (if not the complete package) I have nothing against him at all, just the comment that "McLaren couldn't find talent in 20 years". Did you miss that?
McLaren, like so many, simply wouldn't commit to highley talent young Karters, so they were lost to motorsport. It isnt rocket science FFS.
Also note, Lewis recently stated he learnt his trademark late braking technique in Karts

Lewis had won 1 British cadet championship when he approached McLaren. When they signed him, he won another in a Formula that was pretty much tailored to Lewis. Given the £100s of thousands McLaren spent on him, he only delivered 1 Euro championship. Finished 15th and 20th in the world championships. So I stick by my claim that McLaren could have found other talent in a 20 year period if they'd been more willing to invest (something Anthony Hamilton agrees with)

Perhaps it isnt wise to base you arguments on your poor mind reading ability?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Martin Whitmarsh's comments. They are forthright, honest, and to the point. And despite the opinion of some, I don't think they hurt Lewis at all, rather they deflect some blame from him. I think Lewis is groing up (rather painfully at times) in public these last few years. Perhaps, if his history was a little different (as MW rightly points out), he would have arrived a little more grown up. I think it's all good and don't expect LH to take particular offense..

European champion Formula A 2000.
World Cup Formula A champion 2000.

There's no such world championship in karting, like in F1. The world championship in karting is just a one weekend event.

Every karters are racing in selected championships, you know the planet Earth is pretty big and there are plenty of different nations. Kids can't race in the way F1 does, especially because such global championship doesn't exist.

To be European chamipon and World Cup champion for a British kid (after winning loads of UK titles) is more than enough.

Pffft....never a truer word spoken or written.




Isn't that the same thing, in this instance?




I couldn't care less if I look good or bad. I won't however, make an assertion on a forum and them refuse to back up my reasoning for whatever reason. That's all a person was asking for. If you can't or won't back up your reasoning then you leave yourself open to all sort of interpretations.

Anyhow....back on topic. What was the topic again?

I think you guys are arguing about nothing

McLaren could live without MW/LH, but they both are obviously valuable assets to them. To say that any of them couldn't be replaced, or could be replaced easily is a bit exaggerated.

I was arguing that McLaren could have found other talent within a 20 year period. Lewis had only won minor British championships when he was signed. The OP I was refering to, claimed this was the only talent McLaren could find.
As you correctly point out, there were other Formulas and talent outside Formula Yamaha. And as I correctly point out, there was plenty of other talent available outside Formula Yamaha.

McLaren then went on to sponsor him to a rumoured £100k+ per year, so I would have hoped he won something on a higher level, although once again it wasnt particularly impressive. Before his most dedicated fans rear up again, I did follow Lewis and he was impressive to watch, as he is now.

The topic is Lewis Hamilton, I didnt refuse anything. I presented you with enough facts to back up my view that McLaren could have found other talent. The main thing to note, is that McLaren's sponsorship came very early, so there were blatantly other formulas to find talent in, proved by other drivers going on to be more successful than Lewis without corporate backing, but F1 teams are/were notorious for not investing in yong kids.

And before you think I am in some way bitter (I detect a hint) I could also name very talented Karters who simply lost the dedication or got into other things.

You just made some stuff up, hoping nobody could be bothered to go through it all again.

If it was so easy to get drivers of LH's talent why did McLaren go with average drivers like Hakkinen and raikkonen (especially) for the past 15 years?

According to Autosport, Bridgestone's Hirohide Hamashima thinks that McLaren's tyre call last week was correct:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82635

Qualifying Malaysia- that´s it for Lewis - he is out - Jenson Button once more got the better of him. Nice start to the weekend.
At least Lewis is in the well known company of Fernando Alonso - together they still tried to qualify...

Just to ensure an exciting race for us...

Oh dear, deluded.