No room for shades of grey?

With regard to Lewis - Good on him for admitting his mistake and not blaming it on the team or the car.

With regard to some of his fans here - It's vastly amusing to watch the contortions to which you are resorting to explain how this unforced error is further proof of his greatness... Let's just face it - it's not. He blotted his copybook today. Accept it without providing absurd explanations about how his booboo is proof that's he's just trying HARDER than everyone else.

As to his comment about him coming back stronger - bollocks. I mean - I know why he'd say it - what else are you going to say? But no - sorry to say, making a silly error when you have a great chance to get a good result fundamentally weakens his season and is likely to subconsciously sow the seeds of doubt within him. Success tends to breed success, and desperation tends to breed desperation. This was McLaren's strongest chance so far this season - if you really think that Lewis' mistake in 1st qualifying is going to mean he'll come back stronger in Turkey, you're welcome to it. Personally, I think that once we get to Turkey, McLaren will be back on their back foot, as the track is unlikely to favour them like Monaco did.

Whos done that, I havn't seen any posts of the like?

I've seen a lot of bashing and a lot of defending.


I havn't even attempted to defend his driving, just the OTT hate posts.

I thought his mistake was very dumb and Lewis has spoilt what could have being a really good GP.

Good point Bruce, he did screw up.

Unfortunately, your probably spot on there.

XMAN - Winner of the made up crap post award 2009.

If you actually bothered to listen he said - "I dont know what I was thinking" "I apologise to the team for wasting their time"

then he said "we learn from our mistakes and this will make me stronger"

What the F%8K is wrong with any of that.

Half the drivers out there in the same situation would of said - "I dont know what happened", "the car just spun on me", "we need to check the data to see what happened", "its the team favouring Button again and not my fault" etc etc

Hamilton just received his revenge for last years race. Then he crashed it, but got lucky to carry on and even be able to win the race because of it. This year he isn't so lucky (so far....)

Webber's thread is that way -->

Some people find quite funny the need young Hamilton seems to have to say that making costly mistakes makes him stronger. No real insight there, methinks. No problem with Lewis crashing the car. The way he drives around this place it is almost inevitable, but it can turn out into an awesome performance.

Perhaps he can understand better now what Ron Dennis meant when he asked him to hold position in 2007, as he was touching the barriers more than once on almost every lap in order to catch up with his team mate.

I do not recall any other driver saying something like that after a mistake. Sorry if it bothers some people, but it really is quite funny.

Pretty poor effort at trolling, must learn for MVN

Nope, but they say equally stupid things, the only difference they arn't picked apart by the resident bashers like they are with Lewis, any other driver and they don't even measure.

Billions, in my world, that's the point.

"lover" is simply the approriate response when being called "hater".

I'm not
Just believe that was goes around comes around, or something like that

Then you are expecting quite a few steward penatlys for Massa this year then to make up for all the dodgy decision last year?

Anomander - this is the quote I was referring to - the argument Rotari was making is that Lewis is always on the edge and always trying his hardest - that's why he's "great to watch". I just can't help but feel that Rotari wouldn't have employed the same logic had Piquet made the same mistake at the same place...

And really - nothing against Hamilton - he can't be very happy about it, but he won't be the first driver to throw Moncao away with both Hands - actually - he's in pretty good company here - Senna and Schumi both did it (though never in qualy, that I remember).....

My comments are directed more toward the spin doctoring than Hamilton.

Bruce, with respect, theres quite a lot of difference from what Rotari said to what you posted earlier.

Saying he's great to watch isn't saying this is what makes him a great driver, in much the same way that this type of driving made Montoya and Sato great to watch.

I hope you've got the wrong end of the stick with the comment as it looks pretty accurate, driving like Lewis is better to watch then someone who just trundles around.

"great to watch" and "great" that you used in your previous post are completely two different concepts. With piquet, he's never great to watch. Schumacher did throw Monaco away in qualiy.

if u followed from FP1 it is very obvious that MP4-24 is very difficult to drive, yet LH setting strong times by awesome driving. he eventually made mistake and crashed in Quali, but thats because he pushed very hard. it happens when driver is giving his very best. shame but good effort at least, id say.

I do feel awfully bloody sorry for Lewis.

Monaco is clearly the highlight of the year for him.

To have such a crash on his favourite playground just sucks.

What a shame he didn't have that crash on Thursday or this morning.

No cause those decisons weren't made by Massa, so it would be a bit unfair to penalise him for one another's mistake, wouldn't it?
However, let's not get into this any further.
(Btw. that my name is F.M. doesn't mean I'm a diehard Massa fanboy or something)

Or worse yet, it could have been tomorrow............if that makes any sense whatsoever?

Not much of a consolation, but he might get a point or two yet ;)

Slightly out of context there Bruce. My quote was in response to someone saying he didn't need to be pushing that hard. When Piquet spun under similar circumstances (fortunately for him, without destroying car) he WAS needing to push, as he was in the drop zone.

And saying a driver is great to watch, doesn't mean you think the race and sport is all about them, or even that you think they're the best. I think he's great to watch because he's unpredictable, because stuff like this can happen, but not because he's slow and useless. He seems to offer a high contrast of outcomes. Rather than predominantly bad, or predominantly good. This is why he's great to watch.

I don't think your earlier post criticizing people apparently trying to spin the crash in to saying he's great is fair. If my quote is your supporting evidence, then it's definitely not fair.

I also don't think he's wrong when he says it will make him a better driver. That depends on your attitude to making mistakes, not making them.
You do subconsciously learn from your mistakes, especially things that happen so fast. It is how you improve.
It's demoralizing criticism, if anything, that would plant a 'seed of doubt', not overstepping the limit.

Anomander - I don't think that ANYONE is just "trundling" around out there. And that's my point, I suppose, They're all going balls out. Lewis is fun to watch because he is immensely talented, but I doubt VERY much that he's trying harder than everyone else. Piquet is a little less fun to watch because he is a little slower and less talented than Lewis, and there is always the suspicion that he'll come unglued, but he's probably is trying HARDER than Lewis... he has to. Anyone who says that Lewis binned it today because he tries so much harder than those other lollygaggers is merely making excuses.

I suppose that rotari is looking for a silver lining, but I don't really think there is one here

Why not read my post. You have certainly misunderstood what I meant. Or have missed the context of my quote.

"God was with me" is simply another way of saying "fate was on my side" or "luck was with me" for the non-religious...

e.g. this war veteran talking about his D-Day landing:

It seems I must have. I read your quote as saying "he's great to watch because he tries so hard" (subtext - tries so much HARDER than everyone else - because if everyone was trying equally hard, there is no distinction in Lewis' effort, right?).

Oh dear...

Hamilton is great to watch because of the style in which he drives. Kimi is great to watch too, as is Alonso, etc. Then you have guys like Button who are super smooth, less spectacular. But you can still appreciate their art.

Reading back over this thread, it seems there are a lot of sad and bitter people on this forum. Why not find a driver to support, rather than obsessing over one to bash?

It's all very sad really.

I don't think that people are "sad and bitter" on this forum - it's simple human nature. Many would argue that Lewis has been guilty in the past of a certain amount of hubris (and if not Lewis himself, the British Press has been guilty of hubris on his behalf), and there are few narratives more enjoyable than "comeuppance for hubris".

It's really not a bad problem for Lewis to have - after all - if Fisi, Sutil or Piquet had spun, ya think people would be arguing about it?

Good point.

He has to do the unthinkable and overtake a bunch of times tmrw.... and knowing Hamilton, he wont just wait around and follow a slower car around for many laps, so I wont rule out him having an incident tmrw

Yeah I've no doubt, for example, Piquet is trying as hard as he simply can. No question. We don't disagree on that.

Absolutely not. No drivers go balls-to-the-wall 100% of the time. The human constitution simply can't take it. I think what sets Lewis apart is that he has some sort of makeup that allows not only his balls-to-the-wall to be slightly more productive than others', but also he can go more balls-to-the-wall for longer than most.

I know many believe in, and attempt to perpetuate, this myth, but surely today of all days has exposed it as exactly that - a myth.

He said "longer than most", not "all the time".

Today it was "shorter than most" though, was it not?

That isn't to diminish his undoubtedly fine talents as a driver, but just that his abilities are possibly being inflated to some degree by some fans. There is certainly no evidence to suggest Lewis is "set apart" from other drivers, in the same way that Senna and Schumacher were.

Let's say Hamilton can push it for 90% of his time. Other's at 85% of his time.

Today Hamilton just happened to come across the other 10% of his.

You can say that if that is your believe, of course. I respectfully disagree. I would put him amongst the top 5 current drivers, certainly. But this attempt to elevate him above several of his peers is simply not backed up by the evidence, however much he appeals to folk who don't find him the least bit sanctimonious.

I am pleased to see him see the crash will "make him stronger" though. It seems everything that he claims makes him stronger causes him more issues, so more strength to him I say.

FFS PEOPLE! PUT MWM ON YOUR IGNORE LIST AND STOP QUOTING HIM! You might as well be bashing your head against a rock! And he might as well be bashing his face against his keyboard, for as much sense as he's making.

This (hopefully) will be my last response to emm double eww emm.

He's clearly a troll, and I'll tell you why:




So MWM would elevate him above oh, about FIFTEEN of his peers, which is simply NOT EVEN CLOSE to being backed up by any evidence whatsoever.

One of the true signs of insanity is internal inconsistency. Good-bye, MWM.

I wouldn't be that harsh on MWM. He makes some good points.

I agree, ignore is the best option...

Yeah and cancer helps you lose weight

Anything apart from absolute chaos and lewis race is pretty much finished, he starts dead last.... needed a gearbox change.


one of those days

Some people are must lead very sorry lives IMHO. Lewis makes a mistake, raises his hands and accepts it was his fault and the first thing somebody thinks is to come here and starts jumping up and down. How many times in the last one year has Kimi binned it when he had an absolute chance to win? Did we see this kind of bile musturbation in his direction? Courthard used to bin it nearly every race....so what is the big deal Is there something iam missing?

I'm afraid you've been taken in. A few people on here post to achieve a certain effect, rather than to express an honest opinion.

I think it will be interesting to see what he can do, but to score points from 20th?

What's more of a testament to his talent + combativeness? Winning from pole or scoring points from starting dead last?

LOL Obviously as far as talent winning is better, but still, it would be fun to watch him actually pass some people on track!

Dammit. Well he's GOT to overtake all those heavy cars in front of him so let's hope we get to see him try. If he dnf's trying then I won't blame him.

I can't wait. It could be another Monza like thrash, but if everyone has a nominal race, I don't even see how he could get a point.

Which makes you think, doesn't the strict engine life restrictions discourage anyone trying a balls to the wall charge from the back?

Good point, I suppose they'll give him 10 laps or something and if he's not making any headway turn it down.