I am not sure where you guys get this Singapor judgment timing. I always thought it was said they will judge him around this time of the year as this would be end of European season, where he drove on tracks he knew from GP2.

It would be worth if someone with good amount of time, energy and analytical skills put together analysis of Vitaly performance based on such tracks.

As for yesterday: bkfman writes that we are arguably 6th fastest team here. So Vitaly's 13th is not that far from where car belongs

But seriuosly... that spin yesterday dissaponiting. I don't know where his future is. But I don't consider him a waste for Renault's 2010 campaign. He brought money to team when the team needed it the most.

Despite early season excitment with team signing sponsors, none of that sponsors took place on car that would suggest Big Money being paid.

And it's so damned hard these days to get major sponsorship on the car, as Bernie's FOM started to compete with teams offering big companies contracts for whole F1 sponsorship, instead of individual teams deals. He is preassured to give teams more from TV revenues, so he strikes back by taking sponsors himself.

IMHO future will depend on Renault corporate decision. They are the only ones who can quickly change teams budget situation by contributing more to team. But whether seeing Petrov out or in is better or worse for them I don't know. They have so much interests in Russian market, you know...

Petrov is the heaviest driver on the grid... that's all there is to it and that's what i meant with his physical condition being capped... there shouldn't even be an argument there, but hey have at it if it floats your boat..

As for the rest, I don't give a damn about where the guy was born and how much longer than Kobayashi he needs to learn a circuit..

I don't mind Petrov that much, but it is my opinion that he constantly costs Renault precious championship points and I'd rather see a better driver in that car. (I also recognize Petrov brings precious 'business points' but i don't wake up at ridiculous hours on sundays to watch anyone do that.)

If it rains this afternoon and track is damp like yesterday I can imagine many incidents. And with marshals as 'lazy' as they shown this weekend safety car will come and go.

T17 - please no Renault incidents

I am going to get some cold beers from fridge and enjoy battles of those at front. Let's not let dissapointing form of Renault here take out the enjoyment of great F1 seaon end. You rarely see so many drivers with WDC shot with just 5 races left.

!All this is my speculations about Petrov and Renault!
If Petrov stays in Renault for me it means that they are in need of Russian money ( they can't find another big sponsor). For me it also means that Renault will stay around 4-6 in constructors championship in the next season with few podiums for Kubica.

If they want to compete in top three Renault need good second driver to push Kubica to his limits ( to test him against someone). They need him to bring points. They need him in the front of the pack to develop better car and not to spend time to make him feel better in the team/car. It also means that they need big sponsor money...

As to today's race- Kubica is in need of perfect storm. Good start, good track position + SC, and turbo under the hood ; )
Fingers crossed.
GO Kubica! GO Petrov! GO Renault!

I think that sponsor (accidentaly from Vyborg ) is not a prospect for his future but kind of pay off for this season. He's just paying his bills which he's obliged to for driving in Renault this year.

That's my thought too. I wonder if all these Russian sponsors were just some kind of paying the bills.

nothing accidental here... Vitaly's father is member of the board of the company

http://vyborgshipyard.ru/en/?p=board_en

Uh-uh. That's not how it works - you pay before you drive. A paying driver's contract will specify the amount to be paid and the date by which it is due. If Petrov was behind in his payments, he'd have been dropped by now. Petrov's payments were reportedly due on the first of April and the first of June.

You and me had exactly the same expectation for yesterday's quali. That was P4 (or unluckly P5). I belive we had the same reasoning for those expectations, considering R30 performance on certain tracks, Kubica's performance on certain tracks, RF1 comments before the weekend.

And it turned out to be lack of performance and huge disapiontment.

Feel free to call me not intellignet, I don't care because I knew what I'm capable of. But, i don't knew for how long you are following this thread, but I was always very optimistic, I was supporting the team massivly all the time, contrary to others forumers when the card was bad for us.

Saturday's quali performance changes it. Because it was not the first time they couldn't get the advantage of circumstances, good track layout. They did the same in Valencia, Hungary and Montreal. I'm sick of it. I don't want to fool myself anymore.

Renault was closing the gap to the big4 at the first stages of the seanson (I even remember Boullier sayin that they could aim for 3rd in WDC), they established themselfs as 4th best team and it seems it was enough for them and they stopped working (or didn't have the money). There was last focus on f-duct, wich came way way too late. In the mean time Mercedes came back at our level, and oddly enough a frickin Williams.

4th best team outdeveloped by Williams? Where that came from? That tells a lot about our development rate.

And for those countless front wings. We seem to think that's good they are changing the fw, because we see that they are updating the car, that "Renault is working". I think that's bad that Reno is doing this because it seems that they don't understand the car or designed wrongly. It look like Renault's designers operate like: let's put winglet here, winglet there and maby it will be benefitial.

No other team does that. Look at Ferrari, they don't change its FW often, moreover their FW looks rather simple compared to Renault's. So from where SF are getting this performance from?

Renault doesn't have money. They (ridiculously) asked FOM for money, but they were claiming that it would go for next year's car. I don't think so.
That's why i don't see Renault fighting at the top in next year. Maby for podiums on occasion. Simply because of money.

Which leads me to another conclusion. That Renault need to retain Petrov for next year, they need his money desperately. And this Vyborg shipyard sponsor is hilarious, I didn't count on that kind of "buissnes platform" from mr Lopez.

Just retain Petrov, we should forget about WCC fight at any level and simply forget that he's driving for Renault and his existence because that will be the best way (but I knew it will be hard since Renault will be comng up with loads of PR bullshit).

@Captain Tightpants, sorry, I was supporting (trying to support?) Petrov all the time and you knew it well. Not anymore. But you should be happy in some way, because I'm sure he will stay at Reno for next year.

As I see it for now, with this team Robert won't achieve much.

I'm not the pessimist. It's the way I see it.



Indeed, it's quite a turn.

That's because I was feeling that Robert's presence at RF1 could good for him. From what I see now I'm aschamed I was thinking even for a while that Kubica shouldn't move from Renault to Ferrari, that Reno could be the right option in some way. It was a crime to think that

I hope all of you Kubica fans, who wanted him in Renault for next seasons, are hapy now. Because I'm certainly not.

I don't know why some of you criticise RF1 for the strategy so much. When they say that the tyres are working on the first flying lap then I guess they're right. They check this stuff during practice sessions. So why this strategy? Robert said that they had only one set of fresh tires in Q3. So they had choice: go two timed laps with the first lap compromised by greater fuel load and with the second lap compromised by worse tires or go one timed lap with good tires and low on fuel. They chose to go with one timed lap which maximises the possibility of getting the lowest possible time at this particural track.

On the other hand, I'm not sure but I think that Renault with Kubica wouldn't have this problem if Vitaly hadn't failed in Q2. At the time that Vitaly stopped Robert was on his flying lap which he had to abort. If Robert could have finished his lap maybe he wouldn't have to use another set of soft tires.

Apart from all of that above, the rules and point system promote the best cars. The teams that easily go into Q3 can save set of fresh soft tires whereas Renault who need to fight hard for Q3 don't have this luxury.

cheers

And final two cents regarding Vitaly:

If his cash contribution is high I wish we keep him. He could came 2nd in GP2, so he is able to keep single seater on track. If the car is better he won't try to overdrive it like he does this year and he still brings points. As for teammate able to push Kubica? I don't think Kubica is a kind of playboy F1 driver who needs pushing or otherwise he spends too much time with his boats, jets and waste focus chasing supermodels. Kubica is very mature and concience of himself. he is interested in racing and all he wants is fast car. He will push himself enough. So I think $20M for car development from Vitaly's budget will do more favour to Kubica than driver who needs to collect big salary.

Yes, better 2nd driver makes easier WCC points. But WCC is little against WDC. I can name from instant memory WDC drivers for every year back to 1970. I can't do so for WCC. Neither I care as much...

@mdev

from RF1PP

Check this hi-res:

on side note: we are on page 200!

100 was at Australia race... good sign?

@korzeniow

OK, now I know why. I hope they get better.

yeah, but back then was explosion of joy

from dynamics of the picture it looks like Vitaly is being sucked by black hole

That makes him really fast. Faster than light since he escaped from black hole

The black hole is what he approaches whenever he crashes. I'm Fvcking poetic right now.

200 pages!

Oh what the ....
It's page 200, It's Race Day, MadYarpen is Waxing Lyrical, Let's have............

Couldn't resist

200 pages of good read

Sadly doesn't like there'll be rain. Damn.

hopefuly a safety car will do us some good.


















...Wops

Come on Boys & Girls,
Watch the 1st lap MAYHEM at the front, middle and back of the grid, I just hope Robert & Vitaly survive
6 Backmarkers to deal with, new drivers on the circuit, Massa coming from the back and a safety car or two, anything can happen.
Enjoy the race wherever you are viewing
GO Robert, GO Vitaly, & GO RENAULT R30

You are funny. You don't know what you are talking about. Why would Renault develop the R30 at this stage of the year? It's nonsense. 4th or 5th in the WCC? Who cares? 5 races to go and 2011 comes. It's absolutely natural that teams turning all their forces to 2011 developments except those who are still fighting for titles.

The team reached its targets: to be top5 team and achieve some podium finishes. I don't know what do you expect from RF1 at this stage of this year. You are living in a dream world. This year is a positive one from all aspects: the team made huge steps compared to last year, the team has been rebuilt and the team had some very strong races and fine results. If you expected more, then it's your fault and stupidity.

Which now important is 2011 developments. Nothing else for a team who is 5th in the WCC. If the R31 will be weak product, then you can start moaning. Until that point your comments are useless in this topic. If RK will be a WCC contender in R31, then you must beg our pardon because of your actual comments.

I don't care who will be driving for RF1, I'm not Kubica or any other drivers' fan, I'm RF1 fan. I understand what the team does nowadays (dropping the development of R30 and putting all the resources behind R31), because this is the way to go. I don't care that we have to fight with williams now. We won't be lower than 5th in WCC. What counts is 2011 from RF1 point of view now. I'm not depressed that our drivers have to fight with barrichello or rosberg.

And your signatures are always amusing

Difference between 4th and 5th place is big one- it means big drop in payout from Bernie. It is 1 to 4 place and big drop 5-... place.

You are certainly hell of a RF1 fan. You don't care who drives in you favourite team, you don't care about team's performance and that your tem gets ass kicked by way weaker teams.

I'm not living in dreamworld. My exectations have a backup in reasoning: 1) track characteristic siuts our car characteriscic, 2) updates were brought to Singapoure, 3) RF1 comments of fighting for podium, 4) Kubica street racer factor

I wonder what you expected from Reno at Singapoure GP...

I didn't said that Reno should develop R30 further this year and I don't want them to. You got it wrong. That would be stupid thing to do.

Point is they were developing along with other teams to this point and Mercedes, Williams come out better. That's what disappoint me.

The team absoutely didn't acheve its targets. 4th in WCC was the goal.

What I expect from RF1? I expect them to deliver when they are suppose to deliver. I don't think it's stupidy.

Posts moved for being off topic. Race discussion is here;

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=136180

At least it was exciting

Robert compensate the pain that Renault inflict. Great drive of Bobby K!

Yeah, talk about ambivalence. I almost flipped out when he got the puncture and a couple of laps later I was jumping up and down with glee when he pulled a clean sweep, fresh tires or not...

What a race for Kubica! After the puncture he charged through the field from 13th to 7th in just a few laps Brilliant!

A who says that overtaking is impossible here

Same here!

What kind of pain did Renault inflict on Robert or his car?

I was the same. I saw the shredded right rear tyre and said "Damn!" very loudly

I'm actually rather glad it happened now because that was a really entertaining and awesome end to the race. In the end Robert only lost a few points from it, and it'll shut up those who say he can't overtake.

Epic driving from RK today, ok the puncture cost him big but clawing back from 13th was far from a given, so top stuff!

Outstanding drive by Kubica, absolutely fantastic drive!

They inflicted pain to many of Kubica's fans by their incompetence and unablility to set up the car on track that this car should own.

Renault got the pit stop right, which is all they need to do during the race nowadays, so I'm not going to blame Renault itself for any issues this weekend. The car simply wasn't fast enough.

Suzuka next though - this really ought to test the downforce of the Renault... I think Robert could do well there.

Passing Mercedes for 4th place is slim pickings.
But I still think that with a little bit of luck Kubica can pass Rosberg maybe even struggling Massa. Finger crossed!
Race could have gone better but Kubica's overtaking moves made my day ( next- unplanned- beer is in the cooler).
There is huge gap to the top teams so Kubica podiums are probably no go.

Kubica showed real class today, a pleasure to see him at work

What about Vitaly? He had a bit of a quiet day today...

erm...

With 9 laps to go, after RK passed VP, I thought Petrov might follow Robert through to P8 or P9.
But Robert had better tyres and some awsome racing skill and Petrov is once again without points.

I think that when VP let the leaders lap him he lost a lot of ground to the 3-car pack ahead of him and it was basically over. He was a bit unlucky with his incident with Hulkenberg.

As for Robert he was by far the most entertaining driver of the day. All of his passes were clinical and fun to watch but the move on Sutil was just perfect. Both drivers showed how it's done fair and safe unlike Hamilton on Webber. Of course Robert had fresh tires but still it's a street circuit and it's always far from being easy. Another moment to highlights of his year along with passing de la Rosa in Bahrain and that great battle with Jense on first lap in Valencia.

Race result is great for WDC fight.

Robert: unscheduled stop let him have some fun with overtaking and gave Renault TV exposure worth 10 times of what we would have when cruising after after Rosberg.

Vitaly: close, but no cigar, even if it was very small cigar

Stupid Hulkenberg. It's not the first time he's ruined someone else's race.

Indeed. I'm surprised that wasn't investigated.

Eh, it was a racing incident. As the commentators said, causing an avoidable accident is the very definition of a racing incident. Unfortunately, Hulkenberg has a precedent for doing stupid things when other drivers are around. Look at the way he tried to pass Rosberg (or maybe it was Sutil, we never got a clear shot) in Montreal - anyone could see that it was never going to stick, but he tried anyway. Fortunately, the only race Hulkenberg ruined then was his own. But this contact with Petrov and his sliding around turn seven were just poor form, especially after Monza. Williams are staking a lot on him. They've sunk years into him, and he's not a paying driver like Petrov is. They've only invested their time in him, and so they need him to stop making such critical errors and get on with it.

With hindsight, Kubica should be a bit happy about his puncture. He got the same result he would have either way, and at least this way he got to have some fun and once again show how good he really is. Fantastic stuff.