And here we go again

Exactly, I agree with you. Renault is a manufacturer team and owns 75 % of the shares. If the management doesn't appoint the best driver available (Heidfeld) then they shouldn't have stayed in F1 at all. I think the fact that Heidfeld wasn't confirmed with Sauber over Christmas just shows that he has a deal done with Renault, although they haven't just confirmed it yet. With the news that Kubica won't be looking for an exit I think they can announce their second driver soon, and it just has to be Nick. Even though Grosjean would deserve a second chance somewhere, he was up against Fernando Alonso without testing for Christ's sake!

Lack of testing doesn't justify the number of errors/spin offs/crashes that Grosjaen had IMO, maybe he deserves a chance in some new team, but not one that is talking about TOP3. Assuming that new teams are looking for experienced or/and paying drivers, the chances for Grosjaen doesn't look good (if Renault take it serious with this TOP3 talking).

If you look at Grosjean's qualifying pace, it wasn't actually too bad compared to Alonso. I think he deserves a full season to prove himself.

So do I actually, but I doubt he'll get one.

There are too many good drivers on the market at the moment.

And with Renault taking a step back I doubt they'll want to keep funding Grosjean while he learns the ropes.

I don't suppose USF1 would consider Grosjean? He'd bring a little experience and, I think, be faster than someone like Alex Wurz. Last year there were glimpses of the speed he showed in other categories.

Campos is presumably out of the question barring careful use of insider knowledge at the bank which employed him.

I think it would be better for Renault not take Heidfeld. He is solid, but average driver. And is completely different from Robert.

Yes, Much shorter.

Other than that, not much..

Sure, Alonso would be better, Lewis too, but moment, doesn't they have a drive for 2010? What a pity.
Please show me an available driver that would be better than Nick.

And so what that he is completely different?
That's good, if the car doesn't fit one driver, you have a chance that the second will do better.
It worked good at BMW (until they doesn't came to the brilliant conclusion, that fighting for WDC doesn't make much sense in marketing terms, and that better than fighting or at least trying to fight for WDC is putting the money into the KERS)

Doesn't they have different driving styles?
Smooth-Aggressive
Oversteer-Understeer
?

(Since it is getting more likely that Nick will be at Renault, the Hei-Kub discussions aren't offtop at this thread, aren't they? )

Yes, And that's a good thing...
Most teams strive for that, since you never know exactly how the car will turn out.
Most of the difference in driving style can be corrected during set up.
What is a little harder, is tyre wear.

It was Heidfeld personally involved in BMW decision not fighting for WDC in 2008.

ok....

never heard that before, proof?

Yeah sure, I heard that Kubicas crash in Canada 2007 was because Heidfeld used his dark forces.

if you post this again, they will ban you for stupidity.

Not directly, but in some ways yes. AFAIR after winning the Canadian GP BMW didn't focus on major improvements, but tried to make the car more driveable for Nick. However it's not his fault at all.

Bad news.


http://www.sport.pl/F1/1,96398,7418817,F1_...ym_Renault.html

Looking at Renault's catching up efforts for the last few years I expect them to be sort of competitive not sooner than in August

My poor translation of above source:

3 weeks without aero-tunnel is the reason to not being competitive at the begining of the season??? Cheap excuse IMO. Development R30 since June and now such b...it. Yeah...

This is also incorrect.
Heidfeld had trouble getting heat into his tyres during qualifying.
It took him 4 or 5 races before he managed to change his driving style to solve this.
Every quote from the team mentions that many changes were made and tried on the car in an effort to further develop the package. They claim, and results substantiate, that none of these changes worked.
It is arguable as to how many and how substantial these upgrades were.
The team admits they started work on the 2009 early but they also insist that they never gave up trying to improve the '08.
In any case. Heidfeld had nothing to do with this. As a matter of fact, he like Robert, lamented that the upgrades did not seem to be effective.

Nevertheless this is highly unreliable website. Waiting for some more credible sources...

Reliable-unreliable, do you accuse them that they falsify quotes of Bob Bell and Morelli? Maybe polish media is unreliable, but don't exaggerate it.
The opinions of polish journalists are 99% BS, but quotes are quotes.

True barteks, unreliable source like a hell. Few days ago Bell admitted that that development of R30 has never been suspended. Pathetic news...

They didn't talk with Bell though - that was just a quote from a different source. But Morelli talks with Polish press from time to time, I see no reason why the journalist would invent the whole story. I'd put the article among the credible ones.



Morelli actually said the same thing.



Ferrari couldn't use one of their tunnels for a similar period of time once and it clearly affected the results. It's not the end of the world maybe, but certainly something to worry about.

Maybe they will ban you for being naive, my dear.

I heard from the VERY credible source that it was Heidfeld personally behind this BMW decision.

4 or 5 races?

2008 Qualifying positions:

AUS kub 2 hei 5
MAL kub 6 hei 7
BAH kub 1 hei 6
SPN kub 4 hei 9
TUR kub 5 hei 9
MON kub 5 hei 13
CAN kub 2 hei 8
FRA kub 7 hei 12
GBR kub 10 hei 5
GER kub 7 hei 12
HUN kub 4 hei 16
EUR kub 3 hei 8

Thanks to non-low fuel qualy your list is quite pointless.
2-5
6-7
5-9
10-5
3-8
...all of them could be due to fuel. Thanks FIA..

Well if that's true then he is frakked cos he sure could do with Kubica putting in a good word for him at Renault.

Guess we'll see how it pans out.

And the source is SO credible, that you are afraid mentioning it here? C'mon people, where from you are getting this BS?

You DO realize that Heidfeld outscored Robert for the last 10 races of 2008, after be said that he thought he had licked his qualifying problem.

You mean 10 races after Canadian GP when BMW switched resources to help him instead of fighting for WDC?

I'm finding it be hard to understand if Heidfeld is that powerful that he can dictate the policy of F1 manufacturer team how he is still without a drive???

Why do Kubica fans that sometimes post inteligent notes, come up with this crap?
To think that BMW switched resources to help Heidfeld, to the detriment of Robert, is pure fantasy.
You may have had help from the Polish press. Who knows.

I'm not looking forward to this kind of "chip on shoulder" argument for another year.

anyway O.T.

And you do realize thats a pretty irrelevant statistic? You literally had to add up ten races to get to the point where Nick scores more, which is only due to a DNF in Silverstone on Rob's side to make Nick look as good in 2008. Knock one off of those 10 races and look at the last 9 instead of the last ten and Kubica outscore Nick 29-24. So Kubica out scored Nick in the first 8 races, and the last 9, but more importantly lets just go with the fact he outscored him for 18 races in 2008.

Now I'm not bashing on Nick, I'm crushed he didn't get the Mercedes drive, but twisting statistics isn't going to change any facts here. Using pick and choose statistics I can say that Kubica outscored Heidfeld for the last 15 races of 2009 . I think if you followed BMW as closely this season as I did you would know Kubica was the stronger driver this year. He had at least 3-4 engine failures where Nick only had 1 (and Kubica had one too at the same time), I mean they both were pretty unlucky this year but it would be hard to argue that Heidfeld got hit with as much misfortune as Kubica (I mean in Kubica's 2 best races this year he was fighting engine problems). Yes Nick scored 2 more points than Rob over the course of the season, but if BMW had put on his tires correctly in Spain or given him a better engine in Belgium or if qualifying in Japan hadn't been a total farce it's hard to believe Kubica wouldn't have outscored Nick based on the pace he was exhibiting in those circumstances.

You did believe it? Excellent PR work...I remember Mario saying something like this: "We will help Robert to secure the third place in general standings". In the last 2 races the car suited him so much that he didn't manage for the first time in 2008 to make it Q3 unlike Nick.

Why oh why the KubicaHeidfeld story cant be just left alone?

Why oh why some people here think they are more of experts in F1 than F1 teams themselves? It's really annoying.

Renault F1 announcement to be sent this afternoon ( Twitter )

Seriously, the situation needs to be addressed by the moderators at last. Any mention of Kubica and/or Heidfeld ends up with another pointless battle, derailing each thread it takes place.

No, I'm not referring to Polish press, but to Kubica himself, who said something like that after 2008 Belgian GP

It was not against Nick. Actually Kubica said that team for a couple of months was trying to resolve Nick's problems instead of making the car faster and that he needed their help too and hoped he would have got it.

Coincidence?

Nick to Renault then.

Could be interesting.

Strange that Nick and Robert are joined at the hip!

Like Alesi and Berger really!

I've never said it was against Heidfeld. I've only noticed the result of BMW decision.

Renault to go for th third position,... for the last years they are saying the same thing... Hope Robert actually gets what he wants.

They are a proven combination of raw speed with consistency. They kind of just 'work' together somehow.

Oh totally, I agree.

I just hope Renault can design a decent car. They've not done that since 2006...

Yes, that's what I was thinking. It seems he's going to Renault.

But Noble would be equally right, if Renault announced Jérôme d'Ambrosio or Vitali Petrov; it would indeed be an update, because it's Renault or nothing for Nick...

I've never said you said it was

Interesting that Bob Bell said that 2010 would simply be about getting closer to the front in preparation for a challenge in 2011. Obviously keen to downplay expectation.

Bell need to find new Dino, which is a tough thing.