He was provoked by Ferrari, how dare they use a different gas from the rest to fill up their tyres?

Pey Pey Alonso and Schumy befongs to the same king of bread.
I hope they meet each other on track very often next year.
Lots of elbows and knees.

And I think Schumy will help his little brother Massa, for sure.

I have to say it, by mid year Ferrari will be missing Kimi. Don't think Alonso is any faster than Kimi and when it comes to integrity and character we can't even begin to compare.

FYI, Alonso and Schumacher have met on track from 2001 to 2006 without any significant problem.

Ps. This post is full of frightened haters who can´t stand seeing Alonso with a competitive car next year.

Quoted for truth.

you seam to ignore Massa is paid by Ferrari
Alonso isnt.

I doubt that, at least they will never admit it in public.

Can't anybody wait a couple of months til they meet on the track?

Massa was the measure of Kimi and has the team in his corner. FA is a proven winner but how well will he fit in and how will he feel the team is treating him?

Fisi had a hard time coming to grips with the Ferrari after almost beating Kimi in a Force India (no I am not comparing Alonso and Fisi). How well will Alonso deal with the way Ferrari designs and builds there cars?

I don't see much between Alonso and Massa, could very well be a race to race thing with one driver having the edge one week and switching the next. Whatever the case it will be fun to watch.
Merry Christmas.`

MS and Alonso haven't had much problems... beyond that steet parking in Monaco.
But that was when Alonso wasn't a desperate guy.

I have no problems w/ Alonso driving a decent car... as long as he has developed it and haven't paid to unemploy another one.

Everything was fine until 2006, then he started to do a mistake after another one.
You really know a man when he goes through rough times.

The assumption is that Ferrari will build a competitive car for 2010. Based on last year I would not consider that to be an automatic.

The question is not who paid but who made the decision to pay. That was Ferrari who have made their reasons very clear, and Kimi's performances at ferrari back up their words.

He didnt use stolen data. His emails were not discussing the emails. And both Mclaren drivers were given immunity.

Everyone keeps giving Michael and Mika their full quota of wins, despite some of them involving team mates helping them, and giving them the wins, so why should Alonso's be ignored because he had help from a team mate? Seems like typical hypocrisy to me.

Cronologic facts:

1> Ferrari were satisfied with Kimi's performance.
The proof is his contract was renewed for 2010 [the old one 2007-2009], not an old contract going from 2007-2010, that Ferrari had to carry on.

2> Alonso was signed from 2011 to became #1 at Ferrari.
However Alonso failled to be competitive in his return to Renault.
In the verge of Renault bankrupcy and a third consecutive year without results, Alonso asked Santander to rush his move to Ferrari.

3> Santander signed a big sponsorship and started to nego the conditions.
If Ferrari was to pay the charge for the common consent to extinguish the contract, no extra condition would be necessary. Just pay the charge.
But Santander, not to make Kimi feel humiliated offered the extra money to make the McLaren move attractive, not a mere kick in the butt, bcs Santander is also there at McLaren.

4> That proves that not only Ferrari approves the performance of Kimi, but also Santander.

5> Ferrari haven't opposed to the deal bcs it was not paying, Santander did on behalf of Cowardonso.

These are the only facts you wrote. The rest was wild speculation, assumption and imagination. There is no need for it because Ferrari have explained in detail that they were not happy with Kimi and that is why they replaced him. Luca said Kimi went fishing in 2008 while Massa was fighting the wc. He said ferrari want a driver who can help develop a car and can lead a team, and they think Alonso is the better driver for that. These words are fact, in black and white, go read them. There is no room for interpretation. Kimi took up the option of an extra year so it was not ferrari's choice to renew.

Wrong. Often repeated myth/lie that Robertson has directly denied.

If you want to challenge WebBerk's points please do us all a favor and don't pretend to be some objective observer who doesn't speculate.

The facts we know are:

1) Kimi was signed to an extension for 2010 that per Robertson was NOT an option or clause in any previous contract.

2) Santander signed a sponsorship contract with Ferrari.

3) Kimi himself believes based on what he knows that Santander heavily pushed for Ferrari to replace Kimi before his contract was up.

4) Ferrari for one reason or another, chose to attempt to replace Kimi with millions being backed by Santander.

You don't think there is room for interpretation? Sorry, there is plenty of room for interpretation and anyone attempting to piece this story together will have to do some since we simply were not given all the information.

My interpretation is that Kimi would still be at Ferrari finishing off his contract if it wasn't for Santander money.

Oh, and welcome back, again...

Robertson is kimi's manager and hardly objective, and anyway what he says is totally illogical. Why would ferrari have decided to extend kimi's contract at that moment when he was driving poorly and when there was no need to renew it because he was contracted for the next year. Something forced the extension.




Of course thats what he beleives, hes hardly objective isnt he?



For one reason or another? How about the reasons that were actually given by ferrari?





Ferrari gave us all the information. I just posted it. You seem to be only interested in information that you like. Have fun waiting for it.

You failed to address a single one of my points. Or successfully refute them.

So your argument is that Kimi and Robertson are lying. Why hasn't Luca called them on this outrageous lie if you really think Robertson would be stupid enough to fabricate something?

Oh thats right, we should take your "objective" opinion over the key players involved in the transaction. Because, well clearly, they have a history of lies/deception.

Unlike you.




Luca could have easily denied any such statments, but he chose his words very carefully when given the opportunity. If you don't think there is any room for interpretation, your basically attempting to lie to yourself when in reality even your doing exactly that, interpreting.

I just posted you a large section of direct quotes from the 2 main bosses of ferrari denying kimi's and robertsons lies, yet then you post why hasnt luca called them on the lies, and then you claim im trying to push my opinion"??
Its the opinion of Montezemolo and Domenicali, they speak for ferrari not Kimi and his manager. Its nothing to do with my opinion, I didnt write those quotes. Luca has been denying this conspiracy theory for months, saying ferrari choses their drivers not sponsors. Where did he chose his words carefully? He said Kimi went fishing while Massa was trying to win the wdc, he said kimi doesnt work well with the team, what more do you want? Do you want him to flat out say KIMI SUCKS!?

biffa these are the same liars who say that MS is a traitor and ignore all he did for Ferrari.

The same Robertson who said day before Monzas race 2006 that Kimi doesn't have contract to anywhere? He lost his credibility looong time ago.

Nothing wrong with posts that points out that some "facts" is indeed just speculations, but when doing it it is no good to fill up with new specualtions disguised as facts. You do that and therefore you are more or less automatically disqualified as a "truth sayer"

Sure, the Robertsons have a responsibility to be true to you.

Do you know when the contract was signed?

I posted direct quotes, no speculation. Your side is speculating with rubbish like Alonso pressuring santander to buy Kimi out, and kimi's opinion on the matter.

I think it's highly likely that Santander wanted the move more than Ferrari did - KR has hinted at such and you cannot expect the proud Scuderia to come clean.

Regardless. Alonso deserves a top drive so let's see if he can take advantage of next year's much improved Ferrari. I just hope Massa has recovered enough from the accident to offer a challenge.

Fair enough.

Why should we believe Raikkonen? At the end of the day Ferrari chose Alonso.

Until you can prove Kimi isn't a liar, he's simply not good enough to get a seat in F1. End of story.

Alonso is awesome though. He's gonna beat Massa real good.

So, in one side the "proven liars" Robertson and Räikönnen, in the other the "Santissimi" Luca di M. and "Dumbo" Domenicalli, who never lied in their life, despite of having been involved in politics in Italy like San L. or simply not being up to it like San D. ... And after knowing it we're supposed to make our mind without ...
But the holiest of them all seems to be the new Ferrari driver, who emails stolen data but "don't use" it... Good, now he can at least know all about the tyre gas "of the red car" without using his God-given right to automatic absolution from all sins...

Actually the Machiavellian politics at Ferrari over the past couple of years have reminded me of the old days with increasing regularity.

I personally wonder how long Domenicalli will last in the current climate? Unless they produce a world beater in 2010 there is a very real possibility of the Schuderia falling into the chaos of the eighties and nineties - something no one in F1 truly wants.

Just because Santander might have wanted it more, does not exclude Ferrari wanting the same thing and their decision being totally independant of santanders wishes. Everyone keeps saying Alonso went to ferrari because of Santander, yet what about the other option, that Santander went to Ferrari because of Alonso? I think so. Kimi's hints are hardly from an objective source. He has an ego and pride so its hard for him to accept he was replaced because of performance.

We dont have to listen to anyone because the facts speak for themselves.

1. Kimi was massively expensive, and much more than Massa.
2.Kimi had been clearly outperformed by Massa for the last 1.5 seasons.
3. A double wc was on the market.

You dont need to be Einstein to figure out why Ferrari decided to replace Kimi. They used Santander to do it but the decision was ferrari's. I personally think they would have done it without Santander being there.

A> Ferrari indeed wanted to replace Kimi for 2011, not 2010.
B> Schumy also "underperformed" in the last two season before his "retirement".
C> Alonso was in the market bcs he spent the last two years in his safe zone, after a horrendous season at McLaren. The Master of Disaster was on provisional contracts with Renault, he was always on the market sniffing under every rock after a better opportunity.
Lewis for instance was tight bonded to a long term contract.
On the market means Alonso did shait on past seasons.

Any evidence?

No he didnt. He whipped both his team mates. Kimi got whipped.


Glad to see you finally got something right.

Your "facts" speak rather to yourself IMO, so let's see...



1. You know the right amount...? I don't... And I think it all has more to be with Massa being cheap...
2. According to point 3. of your facts, only double WDC's count... What about a single "homemade" WDC...? And I can't understand how this "1,5 / 2,5 year championships" always are quoted here... Bernie's new idea, after nobody liked his medal system?
3. A double wc...Isn't it that thing in the bathroom? And if it's so good & unique, how was he / it "in the market"...?



I'm not Einstein... Nor you Nostradamus, BTW... And since Ferrari, without Santander, spoke only about Alonso in 2011, I would be very careful making such statements...

Never had friends going through nasty divorces...? Difficult to get out what's (if there is any truth in such cases...) true or not...

He didn't say it to me, he said it to the press




Well, it wasn't after Monza 2006 qualifying, that's for sure

It seems the Ferrari team has lost ALOT of respect from the F1 fans these last couple of seasons ....

Like I said in previous posts, I never liked Luca Di Montezemelo after the way he treated Schumacher, giving him an ''ultimatum'' in 06 .

As some other member posted this before, Ferrari are going to regret what they have done by summer and wished they had KR back !

Kimi was maybe anti-social in a way but he minded his own business, kept his mouth shut and did his job.

Fernando has proven at his Renault and McLaren days as being a drama-queen when things did'nt go exactly HIS way, what will be so different next season at Ferrari ??

As they say in life, what goes around comes around and I hope to see Ferrari struggle next season and beyond becuase thats what they derserve after kicking out 2 world champions in the last 3 years ! and the best in all of this is , Alonso's seat at Ferrai is'nt guaranteed , Santander money or not.

OMG, I see a train wreck in the making at Ferrari and I could'nt be happier !


Ferrari Who ??

willi weber
anthony hamilton
flavio briatore

Driver managers by their nature are slimey and untrustworthy, robertson sounds like he fits the bill perfectly.

Campos will no doubt get the same image if he get in any spotlight.

Perhaps you can prove Kimi is a liar?

Possibly. Doesn't mean that Ferrari were satisfied with Raikkonen's performances, though. I dont think anyone was. Probably not even Kimi. The record shows that he was pretty much equal with Massa, and I highly doubt that Ferrari were satisified with that, cuz his salary pretty much shows what kind of performance levels they expected.

I think its pretty desparate to argue that Ferrari are hiring Alonso for any reason other than that they expect him to be better than Kimi. Money is good, but Ferrari are not a team that desparately needs pay drivers.

And conversely, I've seen a lot of people that have gained much respect for them over the past couple seasons. Especially in their efforts to work with other teams and the fact that they treated Kimi and Massa quite equally until one was truly out of the title hunt. Plus, many people disliked Todt very much so a switch to new leadership was welcome by those 'many'.

You're just seeing what you *want* to see, it seems.

Same here.

What is "my side"? Post me a direct quote saying Kimi was sacked because of his performance. That is what you tried to say with your quotes but failed.

For sure? Or do you guess again?

Well, they won me as a fan the day they signed Alonso, the best current F1 driver.

... in your opinion.


But I'm sure your not the only Alonso fan that swiched over.

Well, I'll say that this thread went way off track ( no pun intented) (rainy Silverstone)

Should be very interesting in the Ferrari camp this upcoming season.

I'm not a huge fan of Flippi, but I must admit he has upped his game over the last few seasons.

Assuming they are on equal footing as far the cars are concerned, he may have his hands full with Fred.

Let alone the rest of the field.

HolymolythisisgonnabeanastoundingyearinF1!

Some key races will be Bahrain and Turkey, Massa tracks, if Alonso can duke it out there with him and win either in a head to head, he'll be in control of the season, when Schumi went out to respond to Massa's time in Bahrain in 2006, it was a great lap by Schuey, Michael responded to the challenge, and that's what Alonso will have to do, exert some control and demontrate that little extra if he can. Alonso won titles with michelin tyres and til this day, I think the renault opt suspensio michelin package is the car that he was exceptional good in, I just think his style hasn't been quite the same on bridgestone, Kimi as well at times, just seemed different on some tracks as if he felt not comfortable driving bridgestone on them, and didn't know why, maybe Massa learned the bridgestone way very well when driving with Schuey.

With no refueling next year, it'll be interesting how they race, and how good some drivers are to get the best out of them.


One plus for Massa, and it's a major one, was he was willing to let Michael help him out, Kimi's natrual ego would not let himself ask anything from Michael, because he wants to get there by himself, but I think it's quite clear, Michael is such a resource of knowlege, he's so adaptable, and Massa is ok to ask MS questions, that's a major plus. It's because it's MS, his feedlback is worth gold really.