Its really hard to assess how 'chaotic' their management is sitting in your chair at home. Ditto with their 'lack of focus'. That seems to be a very specific criticism thats certainly based more on your personal feelings than any objective(and inside) analysis, ya know?

And what about their 'politicking'? They seemed to be more 'friendly' with other teams and even led FOTA for the good of getting rid of Mosley. Of course, thats somehow just turned around by some of you into a bad thing(no surprise there), but I think its clear that whileFerrari is not the same as it was a few years ago, it certainly doesn't mean its necessarily weaker than before.

If that happens then it will put Schumacher's achievements into perspective. Yet there are no Brawn and Byrne and Todt around at Ferrari this time.
Guess who Schumi is teaming up with again for 2010?

That's a Chihuahua, native to Mexico. Mexico was part Spain. Maybe the little one is FA.

So ... getting rid of Mosley wasn't politicking? Or that whole mess with the budget caps and breakaway series and whatnot. I hated Mosley but that b*stard was in many respects right, he said 2 manufacturers would walk out, he was right ... remember Howett and Mario vehemently opposing budget caps? Where are they now? That whole mess IMO boils down to a simple coincidence, Ferrari's and McLaren's interests aligned for a specific 3 week period so ... all hell broke loose. It certainly wasn't a noble undertaking by all the teams in the interests of the sport and the fans or whatever other PR mumbo jumbo we 've been fed.

PS objective and inside analysis? This is a forum people use to express their opinions ... I think ... unless of course you can back up yours with inside data (please include traces) and certified objectivity.

PPS Did you not see a difference in Ferrari focus up to 07 and after 07? Perhaps you were focusing on another team, borrow the season reviews they might help.
And it's not hard to assess how chaotic their management is when you consider they retired MS to hire the most antisocial driver in F1 and were then shocked he was ... antisocial. Then started hedging their bets, Todt's magic was he never hedged, he picked his horse and stuck with it.

One thing is sure,
Luca Colajanni will have a busy times correcting the news from Spanish media.

Infact, it would not suprise me if he quits from his job in the midle of a season.

How long before the alonso/ferrari marriage hits the rocks???

Never? Alonso will bond with Ferrari very nicely. And Ferrari already had 2 great drivers and I think they managed them perfectly okay (talking about massa/raikkonen)

Infact, lets see how well they handle schumey ;)

How long before the alonso/ferrari marriage hits the rocks???

Looks like the contract is going to be written in stone now that Schumacher is racing again.LdM will probably throw the whole weight of Ferrari behind Alonso.

Either that or, if Schumi manages to hammer Alonso race after race, he'll throw the whole weight of a Ferrari at Alonso.

That or the stone on which the contract is written.Still think Alonso is going to win this battle though.

Downplay Ferrari's role in taking down Mosley how you like, but it was something that most *everyone* wanted, and going after the guy who supposedly *favored* them, I would have thought that some people would see them as a team thats certainly more in-line with other team's wishes and in general, less selfish than they were assumed to be. I dont know, I guess anything can be turned around somehow. I think you're certainly stretching it to make them sound like the bad guys as much as possible, which isn't surprising around here, but at some point, I think people need to realize that they're not the 'evil' team some think they are. Is it still 'politicking'? Sure. But is using your clout for the common good really a bad thing? Did Ferrari really get much out of ousting Mosley? Not really. If anything, it put them in a fight with the FIA that I'm sure they wouldn't have wanted if there wasn't good cause for it.

And yes, I think saying that their management is 'chaotic' and whatever else is subjective, but to the extreme point of being mere personal feelings, rather than based on any real solid evidence. Like I said - wishful thinking. You obviously dont like Ferrari, which is fine, but the fact that its so clear tells me your thoughts are merely a reflection on what you *hope* is going on. Change does not automatically mean bad things. I dont expect to see another 5 year period of domination, but its certainly reasonable to expect they can be right up there at the front fighting for championships with their new top-line driver.

Flav might like to get involved if he can overturn his castigation. He would help the mould a lot I reckon.

Yeah, it's about team moulding though, not building per se. Gelling.... you can't just be a driver to do that, you have to communicate well and get on with those around you in all aspects..

He still beat him twice, right ?
Following Luca's orders ? You appear to know too much about the internal debate at Ferrari, I believe.

Alonso accepts being beaten. He doesnt accept dirty and disrespectful antics by the team and team mate, like he experienced in 2007, so if that doesnt happen then there wont be any problems at ferrari from his side of the fence. I think massa will cause problems when he realises hes only B class. More chance of problems at Mclaren also with Hamilton if he gets beat.

Yep exactly. Its quite funny. We saw the same thing in 2007 when he joined mclaren in 2007 and predictions of how he might never win a race again for years, and in 2008 as well. Some people never learn.

especially as he's been one of the fastest rain drivers in the last years

Alonso will make Massa look like the nonentity he is, but it won't matter as neither of them are a match for Michael Schumacher.

Some Schumacher fans will be very disappointed next year

Yes jeze, you are probably right...





...because of Hamilton and Vettel!

Did you make similarly ridiculous predictions in the summer when MS announced his comeback?

When? The car will be basically finished when they get the Alonso feedback for the first time. Before that, some of the team will support Massa for various reasons, one might be they like him, another might be because of the accident and a third might be that Massa is really fast. Some of the staff will be pretty pissed that Ferrari kicked Kimi out because of sponsor money, and the driver the sponsor put there instead have said some pretty nasty things about the "red team" before. In fact, he was their enemy and they were his. I do not think Alonso will be seen as a savior , a golden warrior that will take them back to the top, automatically. He will be met with a lot of skepticism from many parts f the organization, not least from Massas team, and he will have to thread very careful not to piss anyone off before he have had a chance to prove his worth.

If he fails to beat Massa convincingly early, it will be uphill for Alonso.

You are sooo wrong mate. Ferrari kicked Kimi because they wanted to sign Alonso. Santander only put the money.

Alonso showed nothing too special in rain in the past for you to say that Massa might be lapped by Alonso in rain. It will never happen. An I don't know what excuse you could bring in if Massa beat Alonso in rain.

Kind of silly to even get started on Alonso vs Massa at this point. Alonso is fast, Massa was the equal of Kimi, so in my mind neither is likely to dominate. Personally, as was already mentioned I worry more about the team than the drivers. The last two years have seen:
Reliability issues.
Design issues.
Strategy issues.

They missed out in 09 with the DD and Kers but so did McLaren and they managed to turn it around. Ferrari, uncharacteristically, stopped development and pretty much gave up. McLaren kept moving forward and at least had the end of the season to understand the diffuser in preparation for 10.

Should be interesting, I just hope it isn't interesting at the back of the grid.

Ferrari "gave up" cause they had to re-design pretty much the whole car. McLaren was able to develop their car without too big changes.

LO FREAKIN L .. It took Ferrari (with Michael Schumacher's help+Ross Brawn+Rory Byrne+Jean Todt ) 5 years to become champions (in 2000) after 4 straight years of losing to Wlliams - McLaren and now these freakin morons (FA brainwashed fans) actually BELIEVE Alonso's arrival is gonna be the saviour and is going to bring Ferrari back to the top . OMG delusions of grandeur

Ferrari wont win another WDC for the next 21 years , they will be lucky enough if they finish in the top 5 next year ! Im saying that becuase I believe it is true. Ferrari needs and (always did) Schumacher than the other way around !


The reality is Alonso is only dynamite if he is driving the BEST Car with BEST tires. He is a driver who needs the absolute best package to win ie: Renault 05-06 ... What did he do in 08 and 09 when Reanault was in the mid-field ? NOTHING !

Anyways Im just so happy that MS is back. Im happy that FA is gonna retire at the end of 2012 with no addictional rings while at the same time MS will end up with 10 world championships when his 3 year deal with Merc is done in 2012.

Ferrari who ??

It only took Alonso 3 years to bring Renault to the front in 2005, and 1 year to being Mclaren back to the front in 2007. Both less smaller budgets than Ferrari.



The renault was not the absolute best package 05/06. In case you missed it he won 2 races in 2008, so thats a lot more than nothing. In 2009 sadly the renault was more back field than midfield. Alonso already sorted out Michael in 05/06 and sent him into retirement a loser and hes only gotten better since, so I doubt your little dream will come true. Even more reason to hate Alonso than you already do.

yeah I also forgot to mention that FA was also the luckiest SOAB in 2005 AND 2006 ..

how many times did poor Raikonnens McLaren break down in 05 and Fernando got the lucky breaks and lucky wins ?? All at the same time taking advantage of a handicapped Ferrari-Bridgestone package. Michael was fighting with a blunt weapon in 2005 as he said himself, but still finished 3rd in the championship while teamate Barrichello was nowhwere to be seen in 2005 !

Oh yeah, FA fans dont wanna mention Schuamacher's engine-blow up in Suzuka 06 ?? ..... 2 time WDC my butt !


Fernando Alonso is another Jacques Villeneuve. Being at the right team at the right time and with luck up the ass to go with it too !


First Alonso has to beat his own teamate Massa , which IMO he wont, then worry about the rest of the field ...


Ferrari who ??

Don't forget that in 2006, Alonso's engine blew on course for six points at Monza and his wheel fell off in Hungary en route to ten. He committed zero mistakes that year, whereas Michael (Rascasse included) made four individual points-costing errors. Alonso also got penalised unfairly at Monza that year, if you don't remember. Overall, he lost 16 points due to machinery letdowns that year, whereas Michael lost 15, so no real difference there.

Looking at how many mistakes Alonso has committed during races since 2005 is an interesting read:

2005: 1 (crash in Canada, accident in Hungary was pretty much Ralf's fault)
2006: 0
2007: 2 (Hungary could be described as a mistake, but IMO he shouldn't have been penalised, Japanese crash, possibly caused by bodywork damage from Vettel collision, that was caused by Vettel's overambitious overtaking manoevre).
2008: 4 (Monaco move on Heidfeld, Canada (possible gearbox error), France and Germany cost him points when he bothced overtaking manoevres).
2009: Did you see one?

Alonso has made the best part of seven failed manoevres and mistakes in the last five years. He's also won in the dry, in the wet and gotten 20 wins in that period. And you call him a bad driver

What about Alonso's ridiculous penalty at Monza and his engine failure there? Funny how you fail to mention that either

Off the top of my head, he spun out in both Malaysia and China, costing the team valuable points. I wonder how these got overlooked... let me guess, it's the car's fault?

Are you talking about Fernando 'the blackmailer' Alonso ?

I think I missed that. I remember him winning one race in 2008. Would care to list them ?

Alleged black mailer, and you dont seem to understand the difference between provoked and unprovoked. If you provoke most people there will usually be trouble.

The official FIA records list 2 wins for Alonso in 2008.

Singapore and Japan.

That's actually quite interesting statistics. I was really surprised, when Fred recently said "I think I'm at my best moment as a driver and as a person.". Seriously, Fernando? So in 2005 and 2006, when you made almost no mistakes, you were worse driver than in last 3 years when you made a lot of mistakes?

2007 - Spain (small, but still), Canada (lawn mowing Turn 1 what, five times? and being overtaken on the outside by Sato-san in freaking Super Aguri), Japan (King of Rain in wall)

2008 - Monaco (King of Rain strikes again, firstly wall, then poor Nick), Canada, France (no, he wasn't overtaking, he was lapping someone)

2009 - Malaysia (that was funny to watch, Fred in gravel while Felipe kept Ferrari on road), China, Germany (wasted chance for podium I think, as R29 was really fast there)

These are examples of being at highest point of career? I don't think so and that's why Fred will have tough times battling with Felipe (if he's the same driver as before accident ), who indeed was driving in 2009 at his best.

Singapore and Japan, if in doubt, check out F1.com

2007 you listed only 3 races. Thats not much at all and two were minor. Massa would kill to even be close to that.
2008/2009, hes made minor mistakes, not race ending but dont forget hes racing in a midfield environment where he can afford to risk more and the car is harder to drive. When he has a top car he barely makes mistakes. massa makes more mistakes while driving the best car on the grid.

2008 which was apparently his best ever year. crashed in australia. spun out malaysia. 5 spins at silverstone. crashing into lewis at nurburg, and then into bourdaris. Monaco spun. And thats massa's best ever season

I didn't see any mistakes from Massa in the midfield car he contested half of this season with. OK, he missed the chicane a few times in Monaco, but that's not counting toward that tally, since he didn't lose anything to it. His botched overtaking manoevre of Vettel was hardly a mistake either, he was just misfortuante that Rosberg sezied the opportuinty. It was worth going for it. The first-corner incident in Bahrain was just a race incident.

A couple of years in the midfield will have made Alonso "hungry" again. I expect him to be at the top of his game this season. I just don't think the car will be championship material though - it remains to be seen whether the post-Brawn, more Italian Ferrari can rebound from a disappointing season.

I don't think so.
Santandar clearly took part in the financial engineering that expeled Kimi from Ferrari.
They even offered to pay more to go to McLaren.
Kimi, the renegade of course refused it.

Slownso was desperate not to do his third consecutive year in the limbo.
Renault was clearly collapsing.

But nevermind, Satan_der will - easily - get its money back with the Ferrari Associate credit card.

I think that Mercedes maybe harder pressed to make a top car this year.

They(Brawn) benefited most from the DD controversy and won the championship in the first six races because of it. The rest of the season, they were not so good. The 2010 Mercedes will have been primarily designed without the resources of Mercedes, and by a vastly reduced staff from the previous year.

Ferrari on the other hand, were hugely disadvantaged by the DD issue, but still hung in there, though it wasn't a great season. They started work on the 2010 early, so there is a good chance they could start the season well.

The real test comes from who can be most successful in the development race, and both Schumacher and Alonso are know to be strong in that area.

Of course, Red Bull and McLaren will very strong as well.

Mercedes have their work cut out for them.

If the cars are up to it, it could well be

lewis
jenson
massa
alonso
michael
seb
mark

All with legitimate shots at the title.

No mention of michaels team mate.. because we all deep down know that if he is quick and good.. well yeah the other guys not going to get a genuine shot at it is he?

How they were minor, when he lost championship there (about 15 points)? And Felipe's mistakes cost him less that year - Malaysia (4 points), Canada (5) and Japan (2-3).



As jeze pointed out, Felipe was in midfield car this season and his really small mistakes didn't cost him any points (or maybe one). Fred on the other hand by his mistakes lost possible podium (just look at his time in Q1 and laptimes in free air on hard compound in Germany) and handful of points.



No, it wasn't his best season. He was better and better as season progressed, but you can't even compare to what he did in 2009.

Australia - yes, he lost it by himself, but then engine died, so no points whatsoever
Malaysia - that cost him championship
Monaco - really? probably only Robert hasn't put his car in wrong place and Felipe's mistake cost him 2 place, but still little in comparision to others (wings and tyres all over the place)
England - awful weekend, worst in his Ferrari career, horrible mistakes, horrible setup, horrible strategy
Japan - he spun Lewis, but tangle with Seb? racing accident in my view (penalty for Seb )

And 2009? No spins, no controversial collisions, no mistakes, regular points scorer and that's worse season than 2008? Comedy gold.

I see. You were talking about the guy who knowingly used stolen Ferrari data and had to be granted immunity to testify.

Did you keep a straight face while typing Singapore ?

hmmm... I think the "Schlonzis" and "fan-bois" will ask for Kimi & his fans to come back by mid-year... Fun thing it will be anyway...

I think you mean one. otherwise your credibility goes straight out the window...

*edit
So to support your argument that FA did a 'better than nothing' job in the 2008 Renault you credit him with the Singapore 'win'? Please help me understand how you can attribue that win to FA's abilities AND NOT ANY OTHER OUTSIDE FORCE....
All very well that "The official FIA records list 2 wins for Alonso in 2008", but how does that support your argument that FA did 'a lot more than nothing' in 2008.

It's difficult to get into mature debate with anyone with this kind of reasoning, or lackthereof.

For sure