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Taxi
QUOTE (Taxi @ Jul 28 2010, 18:17) *
5-10 th? very very dificult. Just saw the Finland entry list and it is the most competitive of all season: Kankkunen, Ostberg, Kassami, H. Solberg and Wilson in wrc's and then a few dangerous s2000 in the hands of Haninen, Gardmeister, Sandell, Al Attiyah, Tuhino, Kethoma, PG Andersson....

Kimi will have a dificult week end.

[but we all know he' gonna crash trying ;) ]



Told ya... wave.gif
kismet
QUOTE (rko281 @ Jul 30 2010, 19:03) *
After so many years following motorsport, you should all know that it's no good to announce your deals too soon. As later as possible and only after mounths of speculation. This is how contracts are made and/or broken.
Towards the end of the season he will announce it.
Even if, as someone said earlier, Kimi seems to be an honest guy, when contracts are involved the PR talk must be very carefully choosen ("don't know yet", ...bla,bla,bla). I'm sure he knows what he's going to do next year, that why he seems very realxed about it.

Yeah, people keep saying that but I just don't see the logic. I understand there are all kinds of reasons - contractual and otherwise - to keep a move to a rival outfit under wraps for as long as possible but I've been, perhaps mistakenly, taking it for granted that Kimi's first choice would be to stay where he is. How is it ever too soon to confirm that an employer and an employee are happy with each other and not looking elsewhere? It's actually not routine to postpone contract extensions until as late as possible. This year in F1, Webber's was announced ages ago and so was Massa's, Toro Rosso's already said they'll keep their current driver lineup etc. In WRC, Ogier is a much bigger fish than Räikkönen will ever be and his contract was announced a week or so ago after only a week or two of speculation. Kimi continuing in WRC barely qualifies as news on a slow news day so there's little point in dragging this out until bloody November, IMO. It's just annoying and unnecessary if The Big Announcement is only going to be what we all 'know' it's going to be. If he announces a switch to DTM instead - well, that would actually be kind of interesting!
rko281
QUOTE (kismet @ Jul 31 2010, 20:14) *
Yeah, people keep saying that but I just don't see the logic. I understand there are all kinds of reasons - contractual and otherwise - to keep a move to a rival outfit under wraps for as long as possible but I've been, perhaps mistakenly, taking it for granted that Kimi's first choice would be to stay where he is. How is it ever too soon to confirm that an employer and an employee are happy with each other and not looking elsewhere? It's actually not routine to postpone contract extensions until as late as possible. This year in F1, Webber's was announced ages ago and so was Massa's, Toro Rosso's already said they'll keep their current driver lineup etc. In WRC, Ogier is a much bigger fish than Räikkönen will ever be and his contract was announced a week or so ago after only a week or two of speculation. Kimi continuing in WRC barely qualifies as news on a slow news day so there's little point in dragging this out until bloody November, IMO. It's just annoying and unnecessary if The Big Announcement is only going to be what we all 'know' it's going to be. If he announces a switch to DTM instead - well, that would actually be kind of interesting!


Kimi is sponsored by Red Bull and this speculation about his 2011 season in the press is making them happy. This is also a sort of publicity. And as I said many months before, the announcement will be made towards the end of the season.
sleenster
I think it's possible that the deal really hasn't been sorted out yet between Citroen, Red Bull and Kimi for 2011. Even Dani Sordo, who supposedly will be driving for the Citroen Junior team next year has not signed a deal yet. Olivier Quesnel (Citroen team boss) has said that the budget for the Citroen Junior team has yet to be finalized. I'm sure Red Bull's sponsorship of Kimi does in fact have some contribution to the Junior team's budget and maybe there's some negotiations going on about how much Red Bull is going to be paying the Junior team.

I've also heard some rumors about Citroen being unsure or uneasy about whether they will be able to produce enough DS3s for next year and at the rate Kimi is crashing them, they are probably going to need several more than they usually build. This is just my speculation, but maybe there's still ongoing negotiations about how many DS3s Citroen can build, how much money Red Bull is going to pay, and how many cars they think Kimi is going to crash.

I don't think it's really as easy as Kimi deciding when he wants to announce signing the contract, I think there may be some financial and logistical issues that need to be sorted out first and that takes some time. Of course, this is all assuming that Kimi is actually continuing in WRC. The other possibility is that he is holding out for an F1 deal and that usually takes to the end of the season to sort out.

Trust
QUOTE (kismet @ Jul 31 2010, 19:14) *
Yeah, people keep saying that but I just don't see the logic. I understand there are all kinds of reasons - contractual and otherwise - to keep a move to a rival outfit under wraps for as long as possible but I've been, perhaps mistakenly, taking it for granted that Kimi's first choice would be to stay where he is. How is it ever too soon to confirm that an employer and an employee are happy with each other and not looking elsewhere? It's actually not routine to postpone contract extensions until as late as possible. This year in F1, Webber's was announced ages ago and so was Massa's, Toro Rosso's already said they'll keep their current driver lineup etc. In WRC, Ogier is a much bigger fish than Räikkönen will ever be and his contract was announced a week or so ago after only a week or two of speculation. Kimi continuing in WRC barely qualifies as news on a slow news day so there's little point in dragging this out until bloody November, IMO. It's just annoying and unnecessary if The Big Announcement is only going to be what we all 'know' it's going to be. If he announces a switch to DTM instead - well, that would actually be kind of interesting!

Completely agree . Especially this part smile.gif .
Anssi
QUOTE (OfficeLinebacker @ Jul 31 2010, 16:40) *
He means that he doesn't know FOR SURE because the papers haven't been signed yet. What the previous poster meant was that he probably has a very good idea what's going on, but NO ONE knows FOR SURE until the papers are signed.




Well, Kimi said he doesn't know, and that means to me that he doesn't know. It is pointless to try to outguess him. What he says is what he means.

I don't think there are high chances for Kimi coming back to F1 for next season but as long as Kimi hasn't said what he's going to do next season then F1 is a possibility.

I don't have some magic crystal ball from which I look into the future - I see other people make bold predictions but then again if you have 2 options and 1 to pick then you have pretty good chances to get it right even when you really have no clue at all.
artista
QUOTE (SilentKiller @ Jul 31 2010, 15:58) *
As far as I see it, Kimi's performance in WRC so far, he is NEVER going to be a WRC champion. It seems he has started very late and there are others who are young have done rallies their whole carrier.....those who seem more motivated and determined than he him.
If he ever has to be considered as a potential rally winner he has to improve a lot, which according to his age is slightly more for his asking.


I don’t agree with the bolded part.
I don’t know if Kimi could ever be a WRC champion or not, or if it’s already too late for him to start rallying, but for sure he doesn’t lack motivation and determination. Rallying is not so political as F1 and people say what they think (well, more or less) and if Kimi has been praised publicly for something (for example by Olivier Quesnel) during this season is for his attitude, motivation and determination
Callisto
Imo it took a lot of guts and motivation to switch from f1 to wrc.
nmik
QUOTE (Callisto @ Jul 31 2010, 18:41) *
Imo it took a lot of guts and motivation to switch from f1 to wrc.


Agreed.
hello86
smile.gif

QUOTE
Kimi's mid-term report

Now that the World Rally Championship season is more than halfway over, we caught up with Finnish star Kimi Raikkonen to see how he rates his progress up to now…

What do you think of your results so far this year?
“I’d say that our results are what we expected; or maybe slightly better than we expected. When we came into this year, we knew that it was not going to be easy and it would take us some time to adapt and of course this has been the case.

If you consider that everyone else has got so much more experience than us and we had not even done five rallies before the start of the year, it’s not too bad.

Sweden was a tricky event for us to start the year with as the grip kept on changing but then we found it a bit more normal on gravel in Mexico. Jordan was a really tricky rally but we were very pleased to take our first points, and then we had Turkey where we finished fifth, which was a great result.

After Turkey we missed Rally New Zealand and then we had Portugal, which was difficult for us because it took a little bit of time to get into the rhythm again. When we went to Bulgaria I had a good feeling on asphalt and if we had not had an accident, then I think we could have been in the top five.”

How about Finland?
“Actually, Finland was the same sort of story as Bulgaria: some good bits and some bad bits. But it would have been top eight and not top five.”

So how many marks would you give yourself out of 10?
“I’m not sure: I would say maybe five? Because some bits have been good and some other bits have been not so good but in the end it was all more or less what I was expecting. OK, maybe we have done a bit better than I was expecting, so I could give myself five and a half or six?”

Making pace notes has been a big challenge. How is that going?
“That’s probably one of the hardest things for me. Even when I was in Formula One I never really liked it when engineers were talking to me over the radio when I was driving the car in the circuit. Now though it is part of the job. There is probably more speed to come from me through improving the pace notes than there is in any other area.”

Rallying is a slightly mad sport. Does it ever scare you?
“No, there is nothing that I am scared of in a rally car: it is just a very different style of driving. In the end you have to trust your co-driver and your pace notes because this is part of the skill of rallying.

Having said that, when you go off on a circuit, you normally go off into a gravel trap or a tyre wall. When you go off in rallying there are trees. There is no room for mistakes, and although I am making a few all the time, this is one of the things that attracts me to rallying. If it was easy, then everybody would do it.”

Have your targets changed at all this year?
“No, not really. I just want to gradually improve and learn everything you need to succeed in rallying. It’s unrealistic to expect much more in your first year as rallying is all about experience.

The chances are that I’m not going to be able to win anything this year but if I could have one or two more results in the top five then that would be really good. But I think it’s going to be tough…”


source: http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT...p=1242745950125
Desdirodeabike
For those interested, here is my humble review on Rally Finland smile.gif
From the Kimi perspective: Rally Finland – Home on the range
Mauseri
QUOTE (SilentKiller @ Jul 31 2010, 16:58) *
those who seem more motivated and determined than he him.

Oh please, not again this. Some people just dont get it. People said it all the way trough his F1 careers yet he fought for the championship several times and won it once. He may be different personality and difficult to understand for some, but one thing is certain that he doesnt lack motivation when it comes to driving cars fast and making them go even faster.

Whether he will ever be good enough to win rallies is another matter which only time will tell. Based on his showing on asphalt, maybe he could even win a rally one day.
DrF
http://www.wrc.com/results/2010/neste-oil-.../final-results/

QUOTE
1 4 J. LATVALA M A8 2:31:29.6 0 2:31:29.6 0.0 0.0
2 2 S. OGIER M A8 2:31:39.7 0 2:31:39.7 +10.1 +10.1
3 1 S. LOEB M A8 2:31:55.6 0 2:31:55.6 +15.9 +26.0
4 11 P. SOLBERG A8 2:32:00.3 0 2:32:00.3 +4.7 +30.7
5 7 D. SORDO M A8 2:33:14.6 0 2:33:14.6 +1:14.3 +1:45.0
6 5 M. WILSON M A8 2:37:13.3 0 2:37:13.3 +3:58.7 +5:43.7
7 15 M. ÖSTBERG A8 2:37:20.4 0 2:37:20.4 +7.1 +5:50.8
8 12 J. KANKKUNEN A8 2:39:08.6 10 2:39:18.6 +1:58.2 +7:49.0
9 51 J. HÄNNINEN S N4 2:40:34.6 0 2:40:34.6 +1:16.0 +9:05.0
10 53 P. ANDERSSON S N4 2:41:45.3 0 2:41:45.3 +1:10.7 +10:15.7
11 24 P. SANDELL S N4 2:42:04.6 0 2:42:04.6 +19.3 +10:35.0
12 62 T. GARDEMEISTER N4 2:42:21.8 0 2:42:21.8 +17.2 +10:52.2
13 21 M. PROKOP S N4 2:44:41.8 0 2:44:41.8 +2:20.0 +13:12.2
14 17 M. THERMAN A8 2:45:21.0 0 2:45:21.0 +39.2 +13:51.4
15 66 M. KAKKO N4 2:46:10.1 0 2:46:10.1 +49.1 +14:40.5
16 23 M. KOSCIUSZKO S N4 2:46:29.7 0 2:46:29.7 +19.6 +15:00.1
17 27 J. TUOHINO S N4 2:44:44.3 2:00 2:46:44.3 +14.6 +15:14.7
18 40 O. TÄNAK P N4 2:46:50.5 0 2:46:50.5 +6.2 +15:20.9
19 67 C. BREEN N4 2:47:16.6 0 2:47:16.6 +26.1 +15:47.0
20 50 J. KETOMÄKI P N4 2:48:18.8 0 2:48:18.8 +1:02.2 +16:49.2
21 38 H. PADDON P N4 2:49:56.5 0 2:49:56.5 +1:37.7 +18:26.9
22 73 A. NEIKSANS N4 2:50:05.0 0 2:50:05.0 +8.5 +18:35.4
23 68 R. KRESTA N4 2:50:12.8 0 2:50:12.8 +7.8 +18:43.2
24 46 A. GRONDAL P N4 2:51:25.8 20 2:51:45.8 +1:33.0 +20:16.2
25 8 K. RÄIKKÖNEN M A8 2:50:54.9 3:50 2:54:44.9 +2:59.1 +23:15.3
26 71 M. ESKELINEN N4 2:56:21.8 0 2:56:21.8 +1:36.9 +24:52.2
27 79 P. LEHTOVIRTA N4 2:56:51.1 10 2:57:01.1 +39.3 +25:31.5
28 39 A. RASCHI P N4 2:57:03.6 0 2:57:03.6 +2.5 +25:34.0
29 22 N. AL-ATTIYAH S N4 2:57:50.1 0 2:57:50.1 +46.5 +26:20.5
30 34 M. SEMERAD P N4 2:58:26.7 0 2:58:26.7 +36.6 +26:57.1


25th in a WRC C4.

http://www.wrc.com/results/2010/championship-standings/

QUOTE
1. S. LOEB 18 25 25 25 15 18 25 15 166
2. S. OGIER 10 15 8 12 18 25 12 18 118
3. J. LATVALA 15 10 18 4 25 R 8 25 105
4. P. SOLBERG 2 18 15 18 R 10 15 12 90
5. M. HIRVONEN 25 12 0 15 12 12 10 R 86
6. D. SORDO 12 0 12 R 10 15 18 10 77
7. M. WILSON 6 0 10 6 8 8 2 8 48
8. F. VILLAGRA - 6 6 8 2 4 - - 26
9. H. SOLBERG 8 8 2 0 6 R 1 R 25
10. M. OSTBERG 4 - - - 0 6 - 6 16
11. K. RAIKKONEN 0 0 4 10 - 1 0 0 15
12. P. ANDERSSON 1 - 0 - - 0 6 1 8


11th overall. In a C4 that is 1st, 2nd and 6th.

It's going to take a LOOOOOOOOONG time for Kimi to get anywhere near the podium and in the mean time his stock is going to drop. By the time he's got his pace notes sorted out will he have the same crowd pulling capacity as he currently does?
2ms
QUOTE (DrF @ Aug 2 2010, 09:17) *
http://www.wrc.com/results/2010/neste-oil-.../final-results/



25th in a WRC C4.

http://www.wrc.com/results/2010/championship-standings/



11th overall. In a C4 that is 1st, 2nd and 6th.

It's going to take a LOOOOOOOOONG time for Kimi to get anywhere near the podium and in the mean time his stock is going to drop. By the time he's got his pace notes sorted out will he have the same crowd pulling capacity as he currently does?


So you think he is doing worse than he expected he would? How could anyone expect to do better than he is their first year in rally while racing against people Loeb? I just don't understand what you are getting at? I think he is both loving rally and doing at least as well as he could have ever expected to. I'll go so far as to surmise that he is probably more likely to continue to do rally than ever.

If it's that you think he is going to lose his Citroen well (a) I think that's crazy idea because he is the biggest thing to happen to WRC since Loeb and this is not going to evaporate to nothing within a couple years -- I think he is Citroen's 3rd favorite driver and Loeb will be retiring way before Kimi (b) even if he did it seems irrelevant as the Fords are looking extremely good for next year and may even be the favorites so it's not as if not driving in Citroen Junior team anymore would change anything as far as whether or not he continues with rally anyway.
rko281
Those who've attented any rally this year can tell you how he draws the crowds. In service park, in the area of his car is loaded with people.
It's good PR for rally and his doing something that he likes. For now it's a win-win situation.
Let's not talk about his merchandise that was sold out this weekend (faster than was expected). Believe it or not, he is good for the business even with the "I don't care" attitude for which he always got criticized.

As for succeding in rally, I don't know if he will or not, but is funny how those who know about rally (former champions, team managers, etc) know it's neccessary to do few years to expect to be up there fighting with the top ones while some fans/haters expect him to be in top spots in his 1st year.
Take a look at some former WRC champions ' beginning years.
BRG
QUOTE (rko281 @ Aug 2 2010, 17:01) *
Take a look at some former WRC champions ' beginning years.

Yes, usually in national championship events, driving Group N cars, then moving up to Group A, perhaps then in the Junior WRC or the Production WRC for a couple of years. Then maybe a few runs in the WRC proper.

Only Kimi gets a free pass straight into WRC at the highest level.
Sammyosammy
QUOTE (DrF @ Aug 2 2010, 15:17) *
http://www.wrc.com/results/2010/neste-oil-.../final-results/



It's going to take a LOOOOOOOOONG time for Kimi to get anywhere near the podium and in the mean time his stock is going to drop. By the time he's got his pace notes sorted out will he have the same crowd pulling capacity as he currently does?


You might want to call Robertsons on that..? wave.gif
Trust
QUOTE (2ms @ Aug 2 2010, 17:36) *
So you think he is doing worse than he expected he would? How could anyone expect to do better than he is their first year in rally while racing against people Loeb? I just don't understand what you are getting at? I think he is both loving rally and doing at least as well as he could have ever expected to. I'll go so far as to surmise that he is probably more likely to continue to do rally than ever.

If it's that you think he is going to lose his Citroen well (a) I think that's crazy idea because he is the biggest thing to happen to WRC since Loeb and this is not going to evaporate to nothing within a couple years -- I think he is Citroen's 3rd favorite driver and Loeb will be retiring way before Kimi (b) even if he did it seems irrelevant as the Fords are looking extremely good for next year and may even be the favorites so it's not as if not driving in Citroen Junior team anymore would change anything as far as whether or not he continues with rally anyway.

DrF thinks Kimi reads his posts, and so he'll make a comeback in F1.
Back to reality please.
2ms
QUOTE (Trust @ Aug 2 2010, 12:35) *
DrF thinks Kimi reads his posts, and so he'll make a comeback in F1.
Back to reality please.


DrF's a good guy and I know his opinions are sincere about Kimi in rally (i.e. he's not one of the guys going into threads about drivers they don't like and just trying to say negative things about them or whatever). I think he's actually fan of Kimi like I am. I just am not able to see what he is reading into as far as Kimi's results in rally this year and what they might mean for the future.

To me it's very simple. Kimi's doing at least as well as anyone could have ever expected a first year driver to ever do in rally. So I don't think anything about his results changes anyone's minds about him doing rally from what decisions everyone made at the beginning of the season. Aside from that, I think Kimi's sick of F1 and is retired from it. Or at least he enjoys rally more. This is clearly obvious. If you like one job more then another then it would be stupid to switch to the other. He already has way more money than he could ever spend so it's not as if he needs to do something less enjoyable in order to make money. I think of it as him being done with F1 but instead of sitting around his house or playing golf like typical retiree, he is out having the time of his life doing something any one of us would do anything in world to if could to have same opportunity.

Let's say Kimi was to suddenly start driving like total crap and also CItroen went bankrupt and decided to only run two cars next year or something. Well I still don't see that affecting Kimi because he could clearly just be hop into one of all the Fiesta WRC in 2011 along with Kaj who you can see everywhere in videos etc is having the time of HIS life just like Kimi is.
kismet
No one in their first year in rally should be racing against people like Loeb. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I'm enough of a realist to appreciate that Räikkönen crashing into stuff in WRC sells more piss in a can energy drink than Räikkönen driving sensibly within his limits and finishing 7th in a Finnish rally championship event ever could but, at the same time, I kind of wonder if that off-the-deep-end/sink-or-swim approach really is the best way to go about developing as a rally driver. I know it wouldn't be for me but we're all different.
TT6
QUOTE (BRG @ Aug 2 2010, 19:39) *
Yes, usually in national championship events, driving Group N cars, then moving up to Group A, perhaps then in the Junior WRC or the Production WRC for a couple of years. Then maybe a few runs in the WRC proper.

Only Kimi gets a free pass straight into WRC at the highest level.


Somehow your tone sounds familiar. Is it still because of he's a Finn or maybe because he is a former F1 champion?

Where will this huge unjustice end? Rosberg getting to WRC because of his famous dad?
rko281
QUOTE (kismet @ Aug 2 2010, 21:14) *
No one in their first year in rally should be racing against people like Loeb. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I'm enough of a realist to appreciate that Räikkönen crashing into stuff in WRC sells more piss in a can energy drink than Räikkönen driving sensibly within his limits and finishing 7th in a Finnish rally championship event ever could but, at the same time, I kind of wonder if that off-the-deep-end/sink-or-swim approach really is the best way to go about developing as a rally driver. I know it wouldn't be for me but we're all different.


Then take a look at Latvala or even Gronholm at the begining.
Look, Latvala still crashes and he has started competed first time in Rally Finland in 2002 (maybe 2003) and now in 2010 he finally wins the most prestigious rally.

Some wise former WRC champion said once that if you don't crash at the begining it means you are not trying to go flat out and if you go flat out you will crash several times lol.gif
Yorkie
QUOTE (sleenster @ Jul 31 2010, 19:40) *
I think it's possible that the deal really hasn't been sorted out yet between Citroen, Red Bull and Kimi for 2011. Even Dani Sordo, who supposedly will be driving for the Citroen Junior team next year has not signed a deal yet. Olivier Quesnel (Citroen team boss) has said that the budget for the Citroen Junior team has yet to be finalized. I'm sure Red Bull's sponsorship of Kimi does in fact have some contribution to the Junior team's budget and maybe there's some negotiations going on about how much Red Bull is going to be paying the Junior team.

I've also heard some rumors about Citroen being unsure or uneasy about whether they will be able to produce enough DS3s for next year and at the rate Kimi is crashing them, they are probably going to need several more than they usually build. This is just my speculation, but maybe there's still ongoing negotiations about how many DS3s Citroen can build, how much money Red Bull is going to pay, and how many cars they think Kimi is going to crash.

I don't think it's really as easy as Kimi deciding when he wants to announce signing the contract, I think there may be some financial and logistical issues that need to be sorted out first and that takes some time. Of course, this is all assuming that Kimi is actually continuing in WRC. The other possibility is that he is holding out for an F1 deal and that usually takes to the end of the season to sort out.

Kimi sounds to me a bit like a playboy sponsored by Red Bull
DrF
QUOTE (Wolfie @ Aug 2 2010, 20:09) *
10. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +6,4
10. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +23,6
10. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +56,1
9. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +1.05,1
8. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +1.31,6
8. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +2.04,7
8. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +2.15,6
8. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +2.46,3
8. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +2.55,6
8. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +3.15,8
8. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +3.18,2

Then Kimi gets one wrong note and goes into a deep ditch. He loses two tyres and his front bumper when trying to get back on the road and he has only one spare tyre. Three stages left before service and he could have easily left it there but no. He takes it slow and drives three stages with practically 3 tyres and without a front bumper which explains his position dropping during the next 3 stages.

32. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +13.14,0
34. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +19.50,7
40. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +20.35,0

Service break - tyres changed and new front bumper.

36. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +21.21,5
31. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +21.50,9
31. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +22.15,6
29. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +22.43,4
25. Kimi Räikkönen Citroen +23.15,3

So this is another way of looking at the list where he was 25th considering that he was 40th at some point before that.

Kimi was often faster than Juha Kankkunen who is a 4-time World Champion in WRC and who drove on his home roads, heck he even passed his own power plant during some stage and also his own estates. He knows every rock and stump on those stages.

I really can't see how you think that Kimi is doing poorly there? Compared to who? Loeb?

Because all of them have rallied for years in other series and know how to make pace notes and how to listen to them. According to Tommi Mäkinen Kimi knows how to drive, once he gets used to the pace notes it should be quite easy for him.

Where was Mikko Hirvonen on that very same list?

Have you ever seen this F1-driver rallying, Derek Bell?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFkbYacqrZM
Point taken, he recovered well and crashing is part of learning.

Bur how long does he have?

Kimi's stated that he doesn't want to drive an F1 car unless it's for a top team for podiums, yet he's prepared to struggle in a championship-capable WRC car. I just wonder how long he's prepared to spend learning pace notes and how long the likes of Citroen and Red Bull are prepared to sponsor him. It's a huge gamble and I hope he can get to grips with the pace notes because after 2011 there will be no F1 option and if he doesn't succeed in WRC after that he is going to lose his appeal. I don't want that to happen, even if he does.

I feel he was chased away from F1 by Ferrari and the sport is poorer for it, I just hope he does as well in WRC as he could have done if he'd stayed in F1.
DrF
QUOTE (Yorkie @ Aug 2 2010, 20:35) *
Kimi sounds to me a bit like a playboy sponsored by Red Bull

And Santander!

He works a bit harder than your average playboy, he's done plenty of extra events besides the WRC, which is gruelling enough.
Kovalonso
Kimi... kid... what are you doing there ?

Come back to F1. smile.gif
Redstorm
QUOTE (DrF @ Aug 2 2010, 15:47) *
Point taken, he recovered well and crashing is part of learning.

Bur how long does he have?

Kimi's stated that he doesn't want to drive an F1 car unless it's for a top team for podiums, yet he's prepared to struggle in a championship-capable WRC car. I just wonder how long he's prepared to spend learning pace notes and how long the likes of Citroen and Red Bull are prepared to sponsor him. It's a huge gamble and I hope he can get to grips with the pace notes because after 2011 there will be no F1 option and if he doesn't succeed in WRC after that he is going to lose his appeal. I don't want that to happen, even if he does.

I feel he was chased away from F1 by Ferrari and the sport is poorer for it, I just hope he does as well in WRC as he could have done if he'd stayed in F1.

Kimi obviously doesn't give one shite what anyone thinks he should do. He is not out to please anyone, he is out to have fun and do what HE wants. The man has his priorities straight is all I can say. Wow, his life must be rough. Smoking hot wife, beautiful homes, enough Euros to fill the pool at EACH of his houses, Enzo in the garage, bikes too, and the hard decision of "dirt of Tarmac." yeah miserable life......

I'm sure he is on here right now waiting for every nuggett of advice we can give him.


Anyone who doesn't envy at least a part of that was dropped by the doc at birth.....
sleenster
QUOTE (Yorkie @ Aug 2 2010, 15:35) *
Kimi sounds to me a bit like a playboy sponsored by Red Bull


He doesn't even need to be driving in the WRC this year, or even driving anything at all. He could have just sat on his arse and collected 17 mil this year.
Yorkie
QUOTE (DrF @ Aug 2 2010, 21:55) *
And Santander!

He works a bit harder than your average playboy, he's done plenty of extra events besides the WRC, which is gruelling enough.

Its hardly a job though, there's loads of people that would like to be paid to thrash a WRC around

QUOTE (Wolfie @ Aug 2 2010, 22:25) *
This season nobody expects anything from him which is reasonable and understandable. No pressure at all. He was even expected to crash majorly in Finland and not bring the car to the finish line - by Citroen's boss himself ;)

If you think about how he came to F1, unexperienced without a superlicense and all and all he did pretty well in F1.

Jean Todt said on Friday that not Jenson Button and not the one who wins the WDC this year would be able to achieve the level Kimi has achieved this year.

The thing that frustrates Kimi the most is that he can't yet drive flat-out, he is forced to keep the pace slow so that he gets used to listening to pace notes.

The other guys who come to WRC have been rallying for years and most certainly crashed several times in a year.

So he is this season only collecting experience and one thing that should be remembered is that those top guys there have rallied those routes during the earlier years so they are way ahead of him. But the one thing Kimi has going for him is his ability to memorise tracks so I think/hope that he will continue in rally since personally I think he has the talent for it. He could have easily crashed in every rally but so far the only place where he didn't manage to bring the car to the finish line was in Mexico.

And he was 2nd in Rally della Lanterna, it was a battle of 2-3 seconds with Ogier in the end and the other guys there had drove there hundreds of times.

If you remember what Kimi was like in F1, when Stella spoke to him he said 'don't talk to me in the middle of the corner' so he has to learn a completely different style now and for a real rookie he is doing pretty well.

It would be a completely different thing if he would have rallied for several years in the lower serie.

I don't know how people see it to be honest? In Finland rally people give applauds for those who crash - not because they are gloating - because it's a sign of driving flat-out. Mikko Hirvonen has been critisised by his own manager for not being courageous enough to take that 'perkele-gear' into use. It means crashing but it also means driving on the limit.

And the rally people here have very few idols, 4-5, and they are not even all Finnish. One rally-driver drove straight into Finns hearts the first time he drove in Jyväskylä - Colin McRae - people adored and admired him for not giving up, taking risks and crashing, he was immediately number one in Finns' hearts.

We used to call him Kilin-Colin (kilin-kolin is Finnish and means that some parts are loose and make a noise like 'kilinkolin') and Colin's car always had loose parts in his car - hence the nickname that was given out of love.

For some reason Kimi drove into Finns hearts last summer and it was a huge thing since the rally fans in Finland are very demanding. They cheered most for Juha Kankkunen and Kimi Räikkönen and methinks they see Kimi as a future rally-talent.

As a matter of fact I would be very worried if Kimi would stay on the road all the time. In rally you learn only by making mistakes.

And there's also another thing. This first season Kimi has been improving his speed all the time so his curve is progressive when it comes to speed.

And Finland's rally is the most dangerous and fastest rally in the world according to drivers and experts so him bringing in the car was a miracle to say the least.

He trained for most of his life in closed circuit tarmac racing, rallying is a completely different discipline, he's having to start from scratch
Desdirodeabike
QUOTE (Redstorm @ Aug 2 2010, 23:35) *
Kimi obviously doesn't give one shite what anyone thinks he should do. He is not out to please anyone, he is out to have fun and do what HE wants. The man has his priorities straight is all I can say. Wow, his life must be rough. Smoking hot wife, beautiful homes, enough Euros to fill the pool at EACH of his houses, Enzo in the garage, bikes too, and the hard decision of "dirt of Tarmac." yeah miserable life......

I'm sure he is on here right now waiting for every nuggett of advice we can give him.

Anyone who doesn't envy at least a part of that was dropped by the doc at birth.....

lol.gif Awesome.
I may have been dropped on the head sometime during my infancy but I still envy him on every point tongue.gif


Ah Wolfie. Voice of reason. Thanks for your post up.gif
Yorkie
QUOTE (sleenster @ Aug 2 2010, 23:17) *
He doesn't even need to be driving in the WRC this year, or even driving anything at all. He could have just sat on his arse and collected 17 mil this year.

You think that when people have money they just sit on their arse and do nothing?
FigJam
QUOTE (Yorkie @ Aug 3 2010, 08:56) *
Its hardly a job though, there's loads of people that would like to be paid to thrash a WRC around


You make it sound like Raikkonen is collecting a great salary just for thrashing a Red Bull sponsored WRC car around an empty car park all year. lol.gif
Sammyosammy
QUOTE (Redstorm @ Aug 2 2010, 21:35) *
Kimi obviously doesn't give one shite what anyone thinks he should do. He is not out to please anyone, he is out to have fun and do what HE wants. The man has his priorities straight is all I can say. Wow, his life must be rough. Smoking hot wife, beautiful homes, enough Euros to fill the pool at EACH of his houses, Enzo in the garage, bikes too, and the hard decision of "dirt of Tarmac." yeah miserable life......

I'm sure he is on here right now waiting for every nuggett of advice we can give him.


Anyone who doesn't envy at least a part of that was dropped by the doc at birth.....


up.gif

Sure he is, sure he is roflmao.gif
DrF
QUOTE (Wolfie @ Aug 2 2010, 22:25) *
If you remember what Kimi was like in F1, when Stella spoke to him he said 'don't talk to me in the middle of the corner' so he has to learn a completely different style now
That's the part that worries me. His driving ability is without question but his accidents are caused by pace note errors and he needs to get on top of that. He can't memorise rallies like race tracks. He needs to be able to divide his attention between co driver and car, something he's admitted finding very difficult to do. Citroen will only give him so many cars to crash while he learns (other drivers crash cheaper cars while they learn) and if they aren't getting the points...
Wolfie
Hope this hasn't been here yet but here is Kinga's brilliant summary of Rally Finland, she makes them of each rally:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9TP8QBsFkk
BRG
QUOTE (TT6 @ Aug 2 2010, 19:36) *
Is it still because of he's a Finn or maybe because he is a former F1 champion?


Nope. It is because he is undeserving of a WRC seat at that level, at least until he gets more experience and proves himself. I cannot recall ANYONE - Finnish or otherwise - who has ever been given a works rally seat on the basis of just 2 or 3 rally outings. So why does this guy merit such special attention?
goldenboy
I just saw a clip of Kimi signing autographs at the end of the rally of finland (I believe it was the end) and he had a massive smile on his face. Signing autographs AND smiling uncontrollably??? He's not coming back to F1 anytime soon. Good for him that he's really enjoying it, he usually seemed pretty miserable a lot of the time in F1.
Sammyosammy
QUOTE (BRG @ Aug 3 2010, 10:38) *
Nope. It is because he is undeserving of a WRC seat at that level, at least until he gets more experience and proves himself. I cannot recall ANYONE - Finnish or otherwise - who has ever been given a works rally seat on the basis of just 2 or 3 rally outings. So why does this guy merit such special attention?


Whether one likes it or not, this guy gives a boost for the WRC circus thousand Wilsons couln´t ever. That is why.
Wolfie
This is how Kimi himself rates his performances:

QUOTE
So how many marks would you give yourself out of 10?
“I’m not sure: I would say maybe five? Because some bits have been good and some other bits have been not so good but in the end it was all more or less what I was expecting. OK, maybe we have done a bit better than I was expecting, so I could give myself five and a half or six?”

http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT...p;refmodpos=D13
Sammyosammy
QUOTE (Wolfie @ Aug 3 2010, 10:50) *
Neither can I recall but just for the sake of comparison, let's take K. AL QASSIMI for example. He has been rallying since 2004 and has been in WRC since 2007 driving a WRC-car.

Championship standings so far this season:

11. K. RÄIKKÖNEN (15 points)
19. K. AL QASSIMI (2 points)

Which one deserves the seat better in your opinion?


Didn´t You mean ??

K. RÄIKKÖNEN, 0 seasons + 8 rounds (15 points)
K. AL QASSIMI, 3 seasons + 8 rounds (8points)
Sammyosammy
QUOTE (Wolfie @ Aug 3 2010, 11:03) *
LOL

That's another way to look at it too lol.gif

But hey, kick out that brat Kimi from WRC, what is he doing there anyway????


Somebody posted here (??) a while ago an interesting statistics concerning WRS´s sites. There is more viewers this season in a month than there was as total last season.

At least "this guy" isn´t ruining their product ? drunk.gif
goldenboy
QUOTE (Sammyosammy @ Aug 3 2010, 11:06) *
Somebody posted here (??) a while ago an interesting statistics concerning WRS´s sites. There is more viewers this season in a month than there was as total last season.

At least "this guy" isn´t ruining their product ? drunk.gif

it's the only reason Ive been keeping an eye on it, and I've never been into rally, or even kimi. I think it's also about the age old question of which series are the better drivers. But yeah you would have to be pissed if u were an up n coming rally driver looking for a seat to have an f1 dude nick it.
Sammyosammy
QUOTE (goldenboy @ Aug 3 2010, 11:15) *
it's the only reason Ive been keeping an eye on it, and I've never been into rally, or even kimi. I think it's also about the age old question of which series are the better drivers. But yeah you would have to be pissed if u were an up n coming rally driver looking for a seat to have an f1 dude nick it.


True. It´s called sports. Happens in every form of sport. Pressing delete button on Raikkonen would be hypocritical wave.gif
saunarobot
He's been crashing yes, he's been sometimes behind other WRC drivers in pace yes. The most important thing is that he's shown glimpses of speed that no one can disregard, like on the stage in Bulgaria where he eventually crashed he was the faster that Loeb on the first few splits before slowing a bit and crashing. I don't think there are many drivers who can do that pace on the same day in the same car as Loeb.
BRG
QUOTE (Wolfie @ Aug 3 2010, 10:50) *
Neither can I recall but just for the sake of comparison, let's take K. AL QASSIMI for example. He has been rallying since 2004 and has been in WRC since 2007 driving a WRC-car.

Championship standings so far this season:

11. K. RÄIKKÖNEN (15 points)
19. K. AL QASSIMI (2 points)

Which one deserves the seat better in your opinion?


Absolutely! Neither of course deserves a seat at this level. But sadly al Qassimi is part of the Abu Dhabi sponsorship package without which Ford would be out of the WRC. Then there is Henning Solberg - lovely feller & a real character, but he crashes too often and isn't really quick enough.

There are plenty of drivers who deserve a proper WRC shot - Andersson, Galli, Meeke, Hanninen and a dozen more, and the seats that they should be in are taken up by a bunch of wannabes.
FlatOverCrest
QUOTE (Wolfie @ Aug 3 2010, 00:31) *
But you make it sound like he is crashing all the time?

Sweden: No damage to the car
Mexico: car damaged
Jordania: no damage to the car
Turkey: no damage to the car
Portugal: no damage to the car
Rally della lanterna: no damage to the car
Finland: damage to the front bumper

The only rally he didn't finish was Mexico.

(Bulgaria I honestly don't remember???)


Er...he crashed and rolled the car!
As to the previous events... After Mexico he was under strict instructions NOT to bend the car as they did not have enough spare C4 chassis available, as tey had placed all their focus into developing the DS3..
He has driven well, but he is discovering that when the pressue is on in rallying, you have a micro-fraction of margin of error as compared to F1 or any other circuit racing. If he sticks with it, he will become a solid WRC driver... the question is...will he?
Yorkie
QUOTE (FIGJAM @ Aug 3 2010, 03:20) *
You make it sound like Raikkonen is collecting a great salary just for thrashing a Red Bull sponsored WRC car around an empty car park all year. lol.gif

lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif

But doesnt it sound like a great life, earning all that money learning how to drive a rallycar?
I dont want to really hear how its all hard work

lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif

QUOTE (Wolfie @ Aug 3 2010, 10:50) *
Neither can I recall but just for the sake of comparison, let's take K. AL QASSIMI for example. He has been rallying since 2004 and has been in WRC since 2007 driving a WRC-car.

Championship standings so far this season:

11. K. RÄIKKÖNEN (15 points)
19. K. AL QASSIMI (2 points)

Which one deserves the seat better in your opinion?

Arab oil money?

Another rent a driver?

QUOTE (saunarobot @ Aug 3 2010, 11:54) *
He's been crashing yes, he's been sometimes behind other WRC drivers in pace yes. The most important thing is that he's shown glimpses of speed that no one can disregard, like on the stage in Bulgaria where he eventually crashed he was the faster that Loeb on the first few splits before slowing a bit and crashing. I don't think there are many drivers who can do that pace on the same day in the same car as Loeb.

Kimi was driving 11/10ths hence he crashed, Loeb was driving 8/10ths? 9/10ths? 10/10ths?
Callisto
So i guess its wrc next year then for the iceman,i cant see kimi back in f1 next year.i used to watch wrc when i was a kid with my dad,our fav was ari vatanen,my uncle in kenya used to compete in rallys also in a toyota
Callisto
Wolfie,excellent post,(i cant quote_on phone)
i coudnt have put it better
Wolfie
I'm not sure if these have been here already but from last weekend when Heikki Kulta was in Finland's rally:

QUOTE
Todt praised rally driver Räikkönen

Turun Sanomat 30.7 2010 00:57:33

You know Räikkönen well. How realistic is it to expect him to become a champion in WRC too?

– It's a theoretical question. Kimi is a WDC in F1 but F1 and WRC are two completely different racing series. It's the same if you would ask me how realistic it would be if Usain Bolt would win the championship in maraton and 100 meters. Maybe Bolt could win, I don't know, but I can say as little about Kimi too, Todt told TS.

– Kimi is talented and very committed race driver. He is an extremely brave guy. When Kimi wanted a new challenge he was brave enough to go and look for it in rally. F1 is constant pressure and I understand well why Kimi wanted to do something else.

– Kimi has already achieved a certain level as a rally driver. I can say this: If Jenson Button or whoever who wins the WDC in F1 this year would go to rally he wouldn't achieve the same level as Kimi has during his first season, Todt specified.

Turun Sanomat, Jyväskylä

HEIKKI KULTA


QUOTE
Rally-Kimi has learned a lot

Turun Sanomat 30.7 2010 01:05:34

Kimi Räikkönen was so busy on Thursday that this interview we had agreed was moved more and more later until 50 minutes before the SS1 Kimi had time to answer to a few questions.

If I write that you drive rally in 2011, is it wrong information?

– To be honest I don't know yet, Kimi said.

How much better as a rally driver are you now if you compare to the rookie who started from here a year ago?

– At least I have learned a lot. I learned a lot during the beginning of the season but there is a huge amount to learn.

Experts see that Räikkönen drives Red Bull Citroen like a F1-driver. Kimi takes the car in a straight line concentrating on the front and doesn't let the rear slide like you could do with a rally car.

Do you still think when driving that you driver like a F1-driver?

– I guess my thinking has changed a bit. It's hard to say because I have learned so much. I guess this is a different starting point, Räikkönen thought.

What has been the most difficult thing to adapt to?

– Everything is new. Of course notes are the most difficult to learn. I make them and listen. Sometimes I just put a little more effort into driving and don't hear them and have to ask for them again. Many of my mistakes are due to me not listening carefully enough to the note. It's the most difficult thing because it doesn't happen automatically, Räikkönen said.

What do you expect from this rally?

– I hope it will become a good rally and that I don't make any stupid mistakes. If I'm one second per km behind the lead, then I'm satisfied. It helps a bit that we have notes from last year.

Gravel is the real element for the Finnish rally stars but for Räikkönen it seems that tarmac is a more natural surface.

– I have drove on tarmac all my life, that's why. I expect more of me on gravel too but since I haven't had many rallies my driving style is a bit different. In rally experience means more than it means in F1. If you make a small mistake in rally it costs a lot. In F1 you usually get back on the track through the safety-area.

Turun Sanomat, Jyväskylä

HEIKKI KULTA


Compliments to Dracaena for this translation up.gif

QUOTE
Kimi had the first note curse.

Kimi Räikkönen's learning year in the rally world has been as thorny as expected since experience has to be found through making mistakes.

On the second try in Rally Finland Räikkönen and Kaj Lindström got to the finish line, as was the goal. But them main aim of a flawless performance, which would also have been a birthday present for the now 41-year-old co-driver, was not achieved.

After Friday Räikkönen charged himself for a tough battle against Juha Kankkunen but already on the first special stage of the morning, Kolonkulma, the former F1 star got into trouble. The Citroen slid into a deep ditch and couldn't get out. The front bumper was left on the side of the road and the tyres on the driver's side peeled off their rims.

-We just came too fast to a slow corner turning to the right. The car fell into a ditch and wouldn't come up on it's own. We tried to get up by accelerating and while doing that the front broke on the side of the ditch. We got help from the spectators and eventually we were back on the road, Lindström explained.

-We only had one spare tyre and we had to wonder how to get one tyre back on it's rim so that the air would stay in. Then we just drove peacefully, Räikkönen told.

In the final results Räikkönen was 25th 23 minutes behind winner Jari-Matti Latvala.

The first note has it's risks

While the Citroen was lying hopelessly torn in the service area, Tommi Mäkinen went to hear what his friends had been up to.

-It's typical that the mistake happened on the special stage for which Kimi made the pace notes first. It just goes to show how extremely difficult it is to make pace notes. That's the biggest problem and challenge when compared to driving F1, said Mäkinen.

Lindström explained what the first stage pace note problem means.

-When the rally goes on and you gain experience you start to check the first note during that day and the next day. You just try to make it more accurate and therefore the risks are highest on the first stage. The same thing happened to Tommi sometimes, the note for the first stage was a bit less accurate than for the others.

-Kimi was concentrated but mistakes just happen. The needed experience only comes this way, Lindström thought.

For Räikkönen driving to the finish line was like putting money on a high-interest savings account.

-It's good that we managed to drive through all the stages. If Kimi continues with rally in the future he will benefit a lot from driving the whole rally in Jyväskylä with this car and on race speed, Lindström reminded.

No bullseye stage

The experienced co-driver estimates that only two stages went badly: Myhinpää on the first time on Friday and then Kolonkulma on Saturday morning.

But what about Räikkönen himself – how many stages went well?

-Probably none of them were such that I'd be really pleased with them. When you're driving you always notice that you could be going a lot faster.

Räikkönen fully enjoyed his home race.

-It's one of the sweetest rallies. It's well organized and the feeling among the spectators is different than in a lot of the other places. Rally is popular in Finland. People sit next to the stages from six in the morning and everybody has flags waving and it shows that people are rally fans here, Räikkönen praised.

Information in a completely different way

Mäkinen denied being Räikkönen's mentor.

-I'm not involved in Kimi's racing. He has the Citroen team with him.

Mäkinen emphasized that Räikkönen doesn't have to learn the actual driving.

-You learn to drive a car by practicing. With Kimi the problem is that when driving on a circuit he was able to memorize every spot by heart. In rally there's information coming in all the time and it's coming through a different route, through the ears when the co-driver is reading the pace notes.

-You have to learn to utilise that and it's from a different world than anything else in the motorsport world, even realizing how much time it takes. It is taking time but Kimi's ability to make the notes is improving all the time, Mäkinen emphasized.

Turun Sanomat, Jyväskylä

HEIKKI KULTA

(31.7.2010)
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