250 is still two and a half times bigger than Super Aguri. Yes.

Not a good comparison since Super Aguri never was a full constructor.

Toyota confirms that it doesn't have any longer the 2010 grid entry:

http://www.f1network.net/main/s491/st151959.htm

Apparently Todt told Peter "he" is in. Hurray!

Welcome back Sauber

I meant when Sauber used to be independant befor BMW took them over.

http://sport.sf.tv/nachrichten/archiv/2009...er_sauber#video

Some points in the video:

Possible drivers (not exclusive, just what Sauber listed roughly): Trulli, Heidfeld, De La Rosa, Petrov, Kobayashi, NOT Kimi.

Aim is to beat somebody who has similar ressources. Infrastructure is excellent, windtunnel to be down to 1-1.5 shifts.

Some sponsors are on board some have to be found. P.Sauber is not looking "to be standing on the pitwall the next few years".

This is truely great news for Formula 1.

Is Mario Theissen staying with the team or filling another role with BMW???????

Uh, why Rampf? He's been with Sauber since 1994.. Hardly a black spot on the team.

On Monday November 30th 2009 Team Sauber F1 will be on the official FIA 2010 teamlist with
starting numbers 26 and 27, according to Roger Benoit.

Hell yeah!!!

Good news indeed.

Theissen will not join Sauber but remain with BMW as Motorsportchef

So Theissen will be doing all the cooking

Geoff Willis is reported to be on his way to Sauber. C'mon Willis or Rampf? Easy choice.

Really? Wasn't it Willis linked with qadbak?

Really? As far as I remember they both built dogs and stars in the last decade. I'd keep Rampf because integrating Willis could take a while.

'Motorsport chief'

I lived and worked in Germany for a year, and Zurich for 4 years, so I know chef means boss in German. It is just a joke that I have had with many bosses through this time

(come on then chef, what's on the menu?)

Glad Peter's [nearly] back... always had a soft spot for privateers. He was good with sponsors as well...

Sprint Cup is hardly the place to promote a high-tech carbon fibre sportscar manufacturer though.

It would be good to see a McLaren car (again!) at Le Mans (in LMP1 and GT2) and in ALMS though.

Hendrick car $50m/season
Midfield car $15m/season

No wonder Hendrick win all the time!

Although it must be said are the Hendrick drivers on F1 type $10m+ salaries, possibly chewing up a fair chunk of that budget?

What's the situation with Toyota and FIA? Sauber should know where they stand.

Sauber should know where they stand - but before that can happen, the FIA need to know what the situation with Toyota is. As far as we know, they're still pursuing it, but the entry list is expected very soon (possibly on Monday). The FIA cannot bow to the needs of one team when there is a legally-binding situation with another. They can't exactly grant Sauber and entry when there is the possibility that the situation with Toyota may prevent it from taking place.

Monday announcement?


http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-...n-light-monday/


Trulli to Sauber? says the Speed, not Merc....

That's akin to saying that limies don't have faith in McLaren because someone started Williams.

How about using Ferrari motors then? Imagine it, last laps Alonso in 9th....

This assumes USF1 is looking for another investor.

Do they need startup money, or do they need money to go racing?

Perhaps, this shows Americans have faith in USF1, or atleast F1, and now want to play as well.

Ferrari won't be able to influence the team if they are engine suppliers, just as Red Bull wouldn't be able to influence Sauber if they were sponsors. Sauber has been in the game for so long that the other teams respect him. They wouldn't take advantage of that by telling Sauber to move over so that one of their drivers could pull through. And even if they did, I doubt Sauber would listen. Ferrari might revoke the engines and Red Bull might pull the sponsorship, but you know that Sauber would surely protest it. It would be another scandal, the equivalent of fixing a race, if not as serious as what Briatore did.

Aside that the same scenario can happen with Renault vs. Red-Bull, Merc vs. McLaren, FI, etc., there could be car failure, a crash, running out of fuel, (related to that fuel pump failure due to low fuel), to make things happen. Additionally, there are still some folks that believe a Toyota slowed down in the wet to allow Hamilton take the crown. There are folks that believe McLaren let Kimi have the WDC in 2007, Button won the championship for some, because of the DD "cheat".

No matter how things play out, there's always a conspiracy to tend to. Even if Sauber doesn't let the Red Bull or Ferrari through, then they have been bought by whoever else wins. Right? no. it's rather that people believe what they want.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=353099

Can we believe this?

Today Roger Benoit has new information that probably not Sauber but Toyota will
be announced as 13th F1 team today by FIA. He also claims there is a real possibility
because of the fact that Peter Sauber is now owner ( and not Qadbak ) a 14th F1 2010
entry will be granted to them, but needs support of all 13 F1 teams.

Makes me think that either de la Rosa or Petrov will be in a Sauber next year.

AMuS today did a piece on the BMW Sauber saga. They point out where BMW screwed up at 3 different crucial points.
Seems Peter's original offer was for 30mil Euro and BMW has now sold it to him for much less, since the team is now worth less, having lost most of the Bernie money, thanx to Munich.
QadBak was their first choice, the American Investment House was the second choice. When Qadback went south, they approached the Americans again but they had lost interest. Thus PS was the only option left if they wanted a decision this year.
Sauber feels very confident that they will be on the grid.
It didn't state this but it appears to me that Peter is still partnered with the Swiss investors.
He is very positive about the car, stating that the car is completely designed and they are currently building it and have already started the enhancements.
Looks good.

In my opinion the situation for Sauber is very difficult: if you have a clear look on the FIA entry list they are not. FIA is waiting for what Toyota decides to do and, considering the ghost of a 150M$ fine, they have sold the team to the serbians, waiting only that FIA approves the deal officially.
This means that, unless all the other F1 teams approve the presence of a 14th team on the grid and unless Toyota decides that paying 150M$ is better than concluding the selling of the team, the grid slot is very far...

"Limies"???

I do believe you mean't to say "limeys".

So called because the British Navy supplied lime juice to their sailors to prevent scurvy.

Whilst the "non limeys" were toothless, spotty and generally unwell, the "limeys" were fine.

You have James Lind to thank for that.

I do wonder how much Peter sold the team to BMW for, and how much it cost him to buy it back. My guess is that he made a pretty penny.

Yeah but kind of a white elephant without access to the F1 grid..

I don't want to speak out of my way, but not so fast! New owners will have to be subjected to and pass scrutiny that is applied for new entrants. Buying somebody's team doesn't mean you have financial stability to stay on for a while. I am not strong in this, but as much we have learned just not too long ago.

I feel uncomfortable over what's happening to Mr. Sauber, and I wish he would be freed out of that misery.

Well, we shall see about that, I guess. It's interesting how he wound up owning all the facilities again though, likely at a greatly reduced cost that when he sold them. (Of course this also reflects the loss in value given that BMW foolishly chose not to be on the 2010 grid.)

It's a shame Sauber ended up in this position because of BMW's knee-jerk reaction... and I actually would prefer Sauber to have access to the 2010 grid over whatever Toyota F1 would become..

I started a thread yesterday with a poll discussing the 13th entry situation

I think if Toyota manages to find a decent buyer/leaser, then they also deserve the slot though.. because that would effectively mean they met their obligations regarding Concorde, and it would also illustrate quite well how worse it was what BMW did..

If Toyota only wants to avoid the fine, they should just sell/give their spot to Sauber. They'll have to finance the Stefan guy if they want to be sure that he's on the grid.

Sauber will never buy the Toyota slot or outift, first because it has already been sold so it's not on the market anymore, second because they think they will get the slot anyway and this pride will probably be not the way to deal with
this situation according to what you read on the press

Uh, we dont know for certain that Toyota has been sold. Zoran Stefanovic denies having purchased it, claiming he has other ways of getting to the grid. And even if he buys Toyota's chassis and engines, that does not guarantee that he has bought the entry. Remember the still-born Phoenix Finance outfit in 2002? They purchased the remains of Prost and wanted to race with their cars until a civil court ruled that the FIA was right in saying a grid position cannot be puchased.

Yes but that's the reason why everything is so quiet at the minute: Toyota is just waiting the green light from FIA that needs to ratify or not their deal. The approval is the only thing that at the minute is delaying their deal.
On the other hand in Kohln they are still working on the car, confirmed their homologation tests to the testing facilities, things that you are not gonna do if you are not planning to have a racecar on the grid for
next year. Don't you?

wasnt trully already announced at Lotus?

For the good of the sport, the FIA should push through a space for Sauber as a 14th team if needed, 28 cars in a GP or not.

The liklihood is that one of the newer teams mightn't be on the grid for too long. Sauber is surely to be considered a far more stable proposition who won't desert the grid any time soon.

And if any team is going to drop out it'll be USF1.

Either way there is no way that Sauber will not be on the grid next year.

Oh, ye of little faith.

It depends on a whole range of factors, too many to be able to categorically say at this stage that Sauber won't be on the grid next year.

Considering how many people have been laid off from Toyota (around 600) and from Sauber ( around 140) i think USF1, as well all other new small teams, will have plenty of choices
of people to employ to finish off their projects and be on the grid if they have money.
In my opinion the only reason why they do not hit the grid is because of lack of fundings.

Got any evidence of that?

According to Michael Schmidt of Auto, Motor und Sport today

Toyota ist bereit, Stefanovich Zeichnungen, Personal, Motoren und Maschinen zu überlassen. Der Startplatz geht aber nicht automatisch an Stefan Grand Prix über. Peter Sauber hat die besten Karten auf den 13. Startplatz. Doch selbst wenn der Mann vom Balkan den Toyota-Nachlass übernimmt, ergibt sich daraus kein Automatismus, dass er auch den Startplatz des japanischen Automobilherstellers bekommt. Stefanovich muss sich hinten anstellen und neu bewerben. Da ist Peter Sauber einen Schritt weiter.