Hmm, here 'tis again:

MotoGPod's Take on Racing's Recent Tragedies

(I deleted my prior post when I discovered the link didn't work--anyway, what I said was, Jim much more eloquently defines what I was trying to say earlier.)

EDIT: If you're not on Facebook, the link may not work for you.

Was a very well written piece. Thanks for posting.

Very sad. R.I.P

I suppose he died doing what he loved.

I also feel for the other 2 riders. Sad, sad day for all concerned.

I just spoke to macz about everything that happened today, and he's quite upset, even though he doesn't work directly with anyone involved. It's been such a rough couple of weeks, particularly for such a close-knit group of really good people. Damn, damn, damn.

The replay of MotoGP just started on Speed here in the US. It opened with an interview with Ben S., with shots from Indy of him hugging his mom, and now a shot of Barbera with his "In memory of Peter Lenz" sign on the Misano grid. I feel like bursting into tears.

Thank goodness macz will be home tomorrow.

Just terrible news.
2 deaths in 7 days and both so young.

4 deaths including those from the Manx Grand Prix on Wednesday.

Its been a tough week.

RIP Tomizawa

quite sad. Really liked the kid. Same thing could have happened to RdP back in Germany

. . . or Max Neukirchner at Monza last year.

RIP Shoya Tomizawa

i'm stunned, speechless.

How many incidents this year where rider falls and stays on track?
Randy De Puniet, Casey Stoner?

The Moto2 incident two or three races ago, when some rider clipped the rear wheel while on the the start finish straight was scary.

It's an interesting comparison that the red flag was shown in WSB race 1 even though they were all off the track and nobody was that badly injured, comparitively. So I think this should have been shown here. Then they could have worked on the rider where he lay and given him the best chance even in this case it sadly would probably not have helped.

They should have the medical facilities to go to the rider, like they do in F1, and start work, not have to to stretcher them off to the facilities risking the rider being dropped. We all said that at Suzuka all those years ago and yet nothing seems to have changed.

Andy

I am sorry you read it like that.

Yes, I pointed fingers. I recorded my opinion. And I still stand by that. But I don't feel like I want to debate it any further. Call it however you wanjt...

IIRC from his book, Steve Olvey declared Gordon Smiley at the circuit medical centre at Indy when he was killed back in the early 80s. He then vowed never to declare a driver at a track again due to all the legal issues that followed. He then writes about how he virtually had to lie to get Jeff Krosnoff into an ER in Toronto when he was clearly killed instantly in the Champ Car race there in the late 90s.

Ben

Totally agree. I was quite shocked by the haste at which the track workers tried to get him off of the track. It even looked at one point as if they dropped the stretcher. There is no way he should have been moved until a proper medical team was there to do the job.

I don't know what to say. I saw the Moto2 race, but had to go out afterwards. I spent the day not knowing, but as we'd been told that no one had lost their life, I thought he'd be OK. To come home and find that he had succumbed to his injuries was shocking.

Unfortunately, I've seen several fatal accidents now. It still chokes me every time.

So they didn't feel the need to red flag the race because Tomizawa would've been removed from the track a few moments later. And they had to remove him from the track asap because otherwise there would be bikes racing past and there would be noise etc. Gotta let this sink in for a moment... 

The latter part is from the corresponding Autosport article, where Dr Macchiagodena is also saying that 20s more or less is likely not changing his condition. Well, i'm not a doctor, but i was always of the impression that it's extremely important to avoid any rapid head movement when you're dealing with head injuries and possible skull fractures. So i'm not exactly sure how hastily pulling him onto a stretcher, then running across the gravel pits without special neck/head restraints - dropping his head into the gravel at one point - would do his condition any good.

Shoya Tomizawa death stuns Alex de Angelis



Dani Pedrosa devastated by Shoya Tomizawa’s death

I am very saddened by what happened and thoroughly confused by the apparent lack of standards or consistency in red flagging the race. I understand the show must go on and it is a business and so on, but please follow.

One week before as the Indy Moto2 race was red-flagged right away after the second corner accidents I thought what is the need as all the bikes were off the track, none of the riders were injured and all the bikes and debris was at the outside of a very slow corner. Apparently it could very well have been handled by yellow flags and most cleared away by the time the other riders come through on the second lap.

So if seven or eight riders out of dozens were out of the race, tough. Then there was the whole business to let the local boys back into the race as well after breaking the rules about leaving the pits for the restart...but that is not so important here but comes into the business side of this I guess and gave the local crowd a chance to see their heroes race. I am sort of OK with that bit but the original red-flagging seemed like an over-reaction, but I attributed it to the many mass collisions we have seen in Moto2 this season and erring on the side of caution.

So yesterday Tomizawa is obviously seriously injured and laying ON the track and Redding lays injured on the run-off of the fastest corners of the track, I thought for sure this was going to be red-flagged. No?

Why not? Just because it is in Italy and not the U.S.? Or is it because it happens later on in the race and a restart would be more inconvenient? I read the officials comments and reasoning and it reads like just so much whitewash and there seems to be no consistency from one race to the next.

As others have mentioned in this thread, it seems the proper medical guidance and standards of a fall victim or a possible head or neck injury were not followed either. Just like dau above, I am appalled that the circuit doctors most pressing need is to cart the injured riders off the track as soon as possible and not providing the best care on the spot.

And the keystone marhalls dropping the stretcher...when I saw that I thought 'oh my god if there was any chance he was OK for now for sure it is worse''. Terrible, just terrible that everything was obviously so rushed.

So who decides the red-flagging? Is it a different person from race to race or the same? The standards and reasons for red-flagging a race seem to be all over the place to me.

Very nice words from Dani... May Shoya rest in peace

More tributes from the paddock

Valentino Rossi
"I’m so sorry for Shoya because he was a strong rider but above all he was very ‘sympatico.' He was very funny, always smiling and he always had nice things to say to everyone. He was also very young with a great career ahead of him so we are all very sad."

Jorge Lorenzo
“I don't have many words for the race on such a sad say. It's a huge pity because he was a good guy and a strong rider. I am so sad and I just want to say how sorry I am for his family and his friends. When this happens nothing else matters."

Casey Stoner
“I am deeply saddened for Tomizawa, his family and everybody who worked with him. It is something truly terrible and it left me breathless, like a week ago. It was a pleasure to watch him ride and I was looking forward to see him have a great career."

Nicky Hayden
“I am really sad, we have lost two riders in two weekends. My thoughts are with his family and his team but I think the whole paddock has been hit hard by this tragedy. At the end of the day we are all brothers here. We have lost a talented kid with a great personality. I loved his style, his determination and the smile he always wore.”

Andrea Dovizioso
“My thoughts are with Shoya Tomizawa. I was informed after the race and the news is like a slap in the face. Two tragic accidents in two races is so terrible and it reminds us how dangerous is our job. The safety commission has improved safety levels so much that we often forget this aspect.

"I’m so sorry for Tomizawa’s family. Having become a father I can understand that this is the worst thing that can happen for a family. Unfortunately we couldn’t do anything: these were two casualties, two accidents with a similar dynamic where the track-side barriers were not touched. This can happen and this is why our job is so risky.”

Hector Barbera
“I am speechless. I was told about it as soon as I got off the bike, and it is very difficult to take something like that in. Today's result doesn't really matter anymore. Shoya was a great rider who always gave his all on the bike.

"He was also a great person who was always smiling and with whom I got on well. I want to send my thoughts to his family and friends."

The article makes clear that the problem was not simply head and neck injury, but severe abdominal and thoracic trauma. Both of which can be fatal in their own right. The priority was to remove Tomizawa from the track, to the ambulance with respirator and stablilising equipment, and from there to the medical centre. Stopping the race -- it was adjudged -- would have crowded the infield and lengthened the ambulance's journey to the track's medical facilities. The same thinking was applied in 1955, when the Le Mans 24 Hours was not stopped in spite of hundreds of injured spectators. It was criticised heavily at the time, mainly by people with a misplaced idea of 'respect for the dead' (what about respect for the still-living?), but the consensus among historians appears to be that it was the Right Thing To Do.

Also, no offence but I'm extremely suspicious when someone criticises the actions or procedural knowledge of a doctor with the prefatory comment 'I'm not a doctor, BUT'...

The article may make that clear, but that is all from the benefit of hindsight, there is no way anyone could be sure what his injuries were without first inspecting him, and there is certainly no way the track workers could have known given the speed at which he was rolled onto the stretcher. I simply do not believe any of the excuses I've seen and take the view that they put keeping to the schedule as their priority.

The situation was the same for me yesterday. I was relieved intially to hear a similary relieved Julian and Toby (Eurosport) pass on the report that all riders involved were OK.(I presumed that Tomi was unconscious after the crash although it didn't look less than serious). In the evening my son told me that Tomi had died. I felt like I had been punched in the stomach.
I too was surprised to see the race continue and expected a red flag. Fortunately, I haven't /didn't see the stretcher incident - that would have made an already terrible incident a worse spectacle.
The decision to red flag a race is taken at the course at the discretion of the senior official(s). The WSB was red-flagged yesterday as was the race at Indy the other week for what could be considered less serious incidents.
R.I.P Tomi.

But all the riders do? I guess they're just sheep marching to their deaths then.

History shows that riders know a thing or two about proper medical response. Most likely everyone in the paddock knows someone who's been in a similar incident. How is the fact that the response of track workers at Misano would've been inappropriate to deal with Daijiro Kato relevant, aside from Tomizawa's nationality and the fact that both deaths were broadcast worldwide on live television?

It's an awful thing to think that once Tomizawa had lost control of his bike, his fate was effectively sealed. Someone who performed such superhuman acts on a motorcycle simply cannot die against his will. Admitting that nothing but rider error killed Shoya-san seems to go against everything we think about spectating motor racing. Admitting that whatever guardian genius it is that allows riders to balance body position, throttle movement and tyre grip was this time mistaken. But there is no supernatural entity watching over the competitors. The rider is all muscles and neurones, the 'control interface' adapted to the task of directing the entry around the track in the quickest possible time. If you prick him, he does bleed. If you send him a Facebook message, he does respond. This is the reality. Motorcycle racing lost a competitor, lost an ideal of endeavour, effortless control over machine, genius, godhead, whatever. Motorcycle racers -- and I include everyone backstage of the show in this distinction -- lost Shoya Tomizawa, a man who by all reports really came to life once the leathers came off.

I took the liberty to show the pictures to a forensic doctor and a 5th year medical student.

They both claim after such a heavy accident the body should NEVER be touched by people who do not have any form of medical background. In fact, if a person in a lesser car crash gets stuck inside the vehicle, the authorities red cross the entire road and fire departements are called in to remove the roof, so that the patient can get extracted WITH HEAD RESTRAINS. The same happens with road riding bikers.

The reason why this is done, is that some arteries can be damaged or on the verge of collapse. The slightest wrong movement will cause a certain death. For instance, an widening of the aorta. If that blows youl bleed to death in half a minute. Then there is the risk of spinal damage. Or cracked ribs that could puncture the lungs.

If I was the Italian D.A. I would launch a thourough investigation. And the MotoGP organisation should take a moment and rethink their procedures in the moment of such a heavy accident.

The accident was horrific and the decision not to red flag was clearly wrong, but I would still prefer if the subject could be left to the authorities. Not because I do not care, but because I feel really ill reading about it. He is dead and it was an accident. An accident that was possibly made worse by decisions by race control. But it is not really racing no more. It is private for his family and friends and business for the lawyers and nightmares for those involved. It is sad for the racing fans, but I think that before one start to poke and analyze and whatever, some time needs to pass.

If you are uncomfortable with the subject then refrain from reading about it, but as tragic as the accident is I stiil think the subject of what occurred following it is worthy of discussion.

AFAIK all motor racing deaths in Italy get investigated as a matter of law, so lets let the process take its course before making judgemnets knowing only part of the facts.

Sure, but i don't see how that is relevant. Maybe there really wasn't anything that could be done, so it didn't matter how he was handled anyway - but my point is: nobody would've known that before he was checked by medical personnel. I also find it quite hard to believe a red flag would've crowded the track enough that they wouldn't have been able to get him to the medical facilities fast enough. We're talking bikes here, right? 

Also, i can't help but compare this with what would probably happen in an F1 accident of this magnitude - the race would be red flagged immediately, none of the marshals would dare touch an unconscious driver and instead wait for the medical car to arrive. They would then first stabilize the injured driver, put on one of those medical collars and carefully remove him from the car together with the seat, trying to minimize any head/spine-movement. Please don't ask for sources, this is just what i remember from the last heavier F1 impacts. And i just wonder, why is it so different to how it was handled here? What is the reason for that? I'm not even blaming Tomizawas death on how he was handled but this is obviously some kind of standard procedure and i just don't understand why.




Well, i just tried to emphasize that i have only very limited knowledge of medical treatment in case of such accidents, stemming from the first aid course i had to attend. It just contradicts everything i learnt there about how to deal with bike accidents.

Yes the medical treatment should be better but it would not have made a difference this time. That second impact must have ripped his insides into two pieces. No way anyone can survive that.

Why don't they wear something that will resist a tyre going over your mid-section? Surely body armour technology will do that?

No problem.

Here's an eloquent comment from the Motomatters.com user 'Max Power', which explains the track worker's position in such accidents:



It seems likely that the only thing that could've made a real difference was some greatly improved manner of transporting the rider directly to the best trauma centre possible. But one should perhaps remember that the track with the best medical infrastructure in the world, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, witnessed a similar fatality last week...

I'm also a little disturbed the implications expressed on this thread that a man like Franco Uncini can be part of the vast Dorna television-ratings/covering-up-medical-incompetence conspiracy that some envision.

Tragic circumstances, R.I.P.

Sounds as if they work on something like this.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86430

There is, unfortunately, only one thread about motorcycle racing.

The protection the riders wear is already doing an incredible job of protection in most accidents. This was of course an extreme one with the speed involved.

Whether or not anything would have helped in this instance, why couldn't the medical car or ambulance with a doctor come directly to the scene?

Of course in that instance there would need to be a red-flag or a safety car type of solution.

RIP Shoya Tomizawa and Peter Lenz

Rest in peace Shoya Tomizawa. Motorsport is still a fatally dangerous sport.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86443

God damn, this just isnt fair.

Agreed...

I think it is very likely that Tomi died instantly (despite the official version), but the handling of his body was unacceptable by any standard. The race should have been red-flagged and the body immobilised and attended on track before moving it anywhere, it's standard procedure. There's no excuse for not doing that.

Anyone who thinks it is acceptable to move a body like that after a serious incident is a low iq ignoramus.

Love these try hard idiots who pretend they understand.

2010 and the same BS is still flying around

Stop the race put the chopper on the track and transport him to hospital.


A F&*&in ambulance WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Josh Hayes did the double this weekend at New Jersey, giving him a 22 point lead going into the final round. Say what you will about AMA these days but Josh has earned this title amongst some great talent. All he has to do now is finish right behind Tommy Hayden or better in the 2 races at Barber to seal it up.

I hear you.

It was almost like a scene from The Running Man. Competitor dies, gets cartwheeled of the arena and on with the show.
Anr the smiling umbrella girls, etc.

A major f&%#ing disgrace by moto2. Organizers, pardon my french

He's deserved it, no question. The talent pool in AMA is deeper than it perhaps looked a few years back. With Mladin and Spies gone, the championship's top six or so have really taken a big step up. AMA just needs Honda and Kawasaki back now...

I agree as long as they're not full factory teams. The more makes the better. What we don't need is another factory team arms race that makes it impossible for anyone that bought their bike from a dealer showroom to finish any higher than like, 8th, no matter how talented they are.

This. Happened at Imola 1994... why not now. Shambles. Something needs to be done to seriously improve procedure that may save lives in the future. Doubt it would have made a difference in this case, but it was shambolic.

Still shocked by the death of tomizawa, awfull crash but as Rossi said these things cannot be avoided. That is racing and he fell in the wrong place at the wrong time and the guys behind couldn't do a thing about it. The MotoGP race was again a bit boring, the front pack are always seperated by at least 2 or 3 seconds and can't go faster or catch up most of the time so that stays boring.

You do have to think without the very sad death, which obviously and quite rightly has attracted most comments here, this thread would have been filled with how dull, yet again, the MotoGp race was.

It was on BB1 here and not BB2 for once, I am not sure what the casual observer would have made of it. I would be interested to see how the tv viewers varied over the whole of the year once this season has finished.

Andy

I have been told so many times do not remove the helmet after an accident. What you posted makes perfect sense