Mercedes got quite a sweet deal. They have the facilities and the technology that Honda left behind. All they have to do is spend some money and hire better staff.

Oh, don't you dare spoiling a nice prejudice and conspiracy theory with plain old boring facts ;)

Zoe

I hope they're thinking what I'm thinking:

Why did they scrap their WDC and WCC design to copy Red Bull's?

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=375638

Nico Rosberg has described the W01 as a "disaster", as Mercedes moves closer to abandoning development of its 2010 car.

The 25-year-old German again outqualified his famous teammate Michael Schumacher at Valencia, but his prize was a mere twelfth on the grid.

He then scored no points in the race, despite the Brackley based team - winners of the 2009 world championship as Brawn GP - using a raft of improvements in Spain, including a Red Bull-like blown rear exhaust layout.

Britney was angry immediately after the race, and a week later has told the Cologne publication Express: "It's a disaster.

"The problem with the tyres is well known to the team. For weeks we have said we are coming to the front, but nothing happens -- actually we go backwards."

Rosberg admits he is "angry" with the situation.

"If you're twelfth, behind both Williams - who two weeks ago were nowhere - what do you expect? I went from Williams to Mercedes because I thought I would have a winning car."

Boss Ross Brawn said the team will continue to work on the W01, but admitted the time will come for a new approach.

"We have not done a good enough job," admitted the Briton.

"First we need to get our new aero package working properly, and depending on the result we will decide to what extent we then concentrate on next season," added Brawn.

Do any of you know when this will be?

Nico needs to learn to be patient . Just Ask Schu of 1996-1999 for Ferrari or 2005 for Ferrari. Notice how Schu isn't complaining or getting angry? He's been there before.

MS was (rightfully) complaining about the W01 as well, in particular when he missed Q3. It's just that MS and Rosberg are different personalities. MS is always slightly pessimistic, while Rosberg is usually quite optimistic. However, even his optimism doesn't last forever. He improved a lot over the previous years. He is now 25, it's his 5th season in F1 and he finally wants to have a top car, win races and show that he is amongst the best drivers.

looks like MGP is going to have to bring in Alonso to develop the car

Actually what is Alonso' record with development? I have never followed him closely, neitehr on or off hours, but in recent memory he had troubles at Renault, he had troubles at McLaren, and now Ferrari. What's wrong with him and why he would do any good to MGP?

Did you not watch 2008 where the car went from midpack/backmarker to podium contender?


Where he and his teammate came within one point of the WDC? Autosport gave the 2007 Mclaren the 'Car of the Year' award, as well.


Ferrari is a good car this year, I dont know what you're talking about.

Obviously, Alonso's role as a 'developer' is exaggerated by many, but you're clearly just bashing the guy with no good reason.

Well that's it for them, then. Unless Mercedes can pull their fingers out they need to realise this Brackley squad isn't going to do much. They had the best car for half a season which won it for them, thanks to the dubious diffusers and some wins thanks to Brawn strategy. Apart from that this squad hasn't really achieved anything. It sounds harsh, and it probably is... but I wonder if Mercedes really know what they're doing here.

They continue with what was noted in the interview, it's not going to work. Let's be honest with ourselves, 2009 was a freak season. How rare is it to get top teams like Ferrari and McLaren messing up so much with the drastic regulations and then having things like the double diffuser fiasco to help you even more. These guys got lucky. Things settled down for 2010 and everyone got their act together and suddenly the Brawn advantage went (well actually it went halfway through 2009)

Unless they actually make this team a proper Mercedes works teams they can't actually hope to achieve anything, surely.

---

I think the problem is McLaren. Once Mercedes is fully out of McLaren things will get better for them. Looking at how much McLaren achieved when they teamed up with Mercedes shows the potential, I guess.

Trust me, I do not bash Alonso. When I will do that, you will know the difference, but fact is, that Alonso has lost a lot of luster in past a few years for whatever reasons, and I can't recall that he would be described as a "team builder in Schumacher style" either. Someone dragged him into MGP thread for some reason, and perhaps that's why we are talking about him; otherwise I do not care where he is, or what he does.

rosbergs a dreamer he said if hamilton didnt get any points in the next race and rosberg won it he could have a chance at the championship so mercedes should keep working on this years car

atleast schumacher was realistic at the start of the season when he pretty much said they should write the season off and start on next years car

A guy who was at the FOTA Fans Forum:

"...Jock Clear off-mic at #F1 #FOTAFansForum: "Nico's significantly quicker than Michael..."

LINK: http://twitter.com/jvanbregt/statuses/17510570026

But the car was not so bad at the beginning of the season. Ok, it was not as fast as the Red Bull, but Rosberg was doing very good points. Then, the team began to bring the updates and everything has gone from bad to worse.

If the team is having problems to properly predict what kind of effect the updates have already in 2010, how can they focus in the 2011 car? They need to find first where their design problems are.

I have always questioned Clear' position in new Honda/Brawn/MGP; this goes back to JV v. MS days. Regardless of facts other than he said that, I think he should be let go, IMO. Psychological war from within should not be tolerated.

Yeah, great idea. Wave goodbye to the race engineer who works with your fastest driver, just because he happened to engineer your other drivers title rival thirteen years ago....

Well, Sakae, maybe Jock is more in the know than you are.
Maybe it is a fact that Nico is significantly quicker than Michael.
Maybe you are just in denial.

why not hes been awful so far this year

Recent race pace suggests otherwise.

well if Alonso can't find time to help Brawn, maybe Kimi can work in some development time between rallies












geez guys, I thought it'd be obvious my previous post about Alonso was a joke...

All what I am saying is if there is tension in the team, and people tolerate each other rather than be friends with genuine respect for each other, Ross would be better off to intervene in most forceful way. To pretend that things get better is just waste of precious time.

Jock's comment might be the truth, but it was unnecessary, and I also think it was premeditated. I would show Jock door, effective now.

nico can be as fast as he likes but how many times has he over taken his team mate? and how many times has his team mate over taken him either at a start or on the track.
michael beat him off the line atleast twice now? and overtook him on track in the last race

no point beeing fast if you are happy to sit in with the pack and take no risks like a boring sunday driver

Up front disclosure ... Im not a Nico Fan..

But this doesnt even have to do with Nico.. If Jock clear cant keep his trap shut he should be shown the door. While comments like this may be tolerated in a team such as Renault in a Kubica Petrov situation or a Badoer Raiikkonen situation this is Mercedes GP ... You dont see Schumis engineer making foolish comments of the sort. Yes Nico is fast but it has been painfully clear that MSC has gotten the short end of the stick alot of times this season. There is no need to be stirring up the sh#$T pot for gloating purposes.

He should lose his job or recieve a severe public dressing down for a comment like that.. This isnt a damn patty shop, get to work and be a damn team player else gtfo .. !

Everyone is replaceable; especially this guy.

Everyone is replaceable - especially Michael Schumacher 2010 spec.

Maybe everything will change with Pirelli tires next year.
It might be very different.

However, I think Pirelli will - somehow - benefit Ferrari.

They will not get rid of Clear just because he whispered what everyone has seen this year, to Whitmarsh or whoever. Clear has engineered in F1 for atleast fifteen years and is considered to be among the best. He has race engineered DC, Villeneuve, Barrichello and now Rosberg. I don't think his skills has ever been questioned and when he's about to establish a good rapport with your fastest driver, you don't show him the door just because of this.

from f1technical forum:
source:f1-total-interview with Rosberg:
http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 62909.html

Rosberg spricht von einer "Katastrophe"

"Die vergangenen zwei Rennen waren enttäuschend", sagt der Wahl-Monegasse weiter. Seit zwei Rennen arbeiten die beiden Mercedes-Piloten im Qualifying mit stumpfen Waffen, denn die weichen Reifen bringen bei der Zeitenjagd kaum Vorteile. "Das ist eine Katastrophe. Wir müssen versuchen, das in den Griff zu bekommen." Das Problem ist allen im Team bekannt, einzig einen Weg zur Lösung hat man noch nicht gefunden.

"Ross ist nach Montréal in die Firma gekommen. Dort hat er allen 400 Mann gesagt: Höchste Priorität hat das Verstehen der Reifen. Das steht in der Prioritätenliste noch vor weiteren Upgrades", erklärt Rosberg den Kampf um Anschluss. "Dann haben sich alle hingesetzt und sind mit Ideen gekommen. Die besten Ideen haben wir genommen und ausprobiert. Leider nicht sehr erfolgreich. Bis jetzt jedenfalls."

google translate:
"Ross has come to Montreal in the firm. He has said to all 400 men: The highest priority is the understanding of the tires. This is highest in the priority list above further upgrades," says Rosberg the struggle for access. "Then have all sat down and came up with ideas. The best ideas we have taken and tried. Unfortunately, not very successfully. So far, at least"

I don't understand how the team can't learn this tires for nine races? Rasberg also have some knowledge for the tires from last years. Only Michael can't help ,but I think he tries. Nico and Clear are only moaning, giving information to the press. Is anyone working in the factory now over the tire problem?

Paranoid much? Seriously WTF?

Agreed. If they are not willing to pour money and expertise into this team then they will achieve very little. Running a shoestring budget with a team that has had no sustained success at the sharp end is asking for trouble, last year was an anomaly.

Spending pots of money is no guarantee of success of course but Mercedes won't get anywhere without spending what is necessary.

I personally couldn't be happier Jenson decided to leave. This team is going nowhere. Tyres tyres tyres.. where have we heard that before?

"This team is going nowhere"? Where did I hear that before? Oh yeah, I remember now, it was when MB bought out fading Ilmore engines.

Yes, I fear that Pirelli and Ferrari will be quite a combo next year and years to come....

As I heard Ferrari preferred Michelin? McLaren also.

Strange.
Did Ferrari ever raced over Michelins ?

Certainly and influence of Alonso and his glory days, since he prefers the Mich's soft tire walls and stiff road band.

Ferrari raced Michelins in the 1980s AFAIK.

I think without in season testing really hurt the team not being able to get to the bottom of their problems, tires happened to be one of them which the team need to do a lot of runnings with all kinds of setup, now teams need to be in parc ferme condition after Saturday qualify so not much you can do if your setup isn't there to give you good performance or good data to analysis your issues afterward.

I know the ban of in season testing is to save cost for the sports, but I really hate this rule, along with no refueling.

I agree with this.. he is a top line engineer.

However, every lap they do in these cars is now at a race meeting and public (no testing at all), so opinions on relative speed can be formed by anyone who watches with care with pretty much equal worth.. so his comments are not really much more than flanelling.

I can't see a reason for it; do you?

I see nine reasons for it - the last nine races.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, although I have difficulty to make sense out of your words.

because people expected miracles from him even in a dog of a car thats still got the same problems they had last year....


hes still done pretty well and should have alot more points than he did if it werent for the team making stupid calls with stratergy

Indeed. They expected like it would be with Ferrari in 1996-1997, which was radically different....

Correct. That plus I did not expect Schumacher to be beaten so decisively by Rosberg.
When was the last time in Michael Schumacher´s career that he was trailing his team-mate with such a margin?

it wouldnt be such a margin if it werent for ridiculous pit stratergies its as if ross brawn is desperate for a win or mercedes will behead him

As a Mclaren fan I find this all very amusing.

Mercedes really have scored an own goal not sticking by the mighty Mclaren team of Woking. Personally I think Mclaren are the greatest modern racing car maker. I don't think even Ferrari can live with the boys from Woking when they can develop cars at such a frenetic pace.

It's destiny for Mercedes Benz.

"Destiny is not a matter of chance; but a matter of choice. It is not a thing to be waited for, It is a thing to be acheived". [William Jennings Bryan]

Hard to judge race pace when both drivers are stuck in traffic. The only race recently where we could properly judge their pace was turkey when Michael did a trulli train imitation with Rosberg stuck on his tail all day. Any one denying that Michael is a step behind Rosberg in raw speed is living in denial im afraid.

At this point, the only clear things are:

1. Mercedes is having trouble sorting out how to get the tires to work at the optimal.
2. Mercedes is starting to fall behind a bit in their development rate in relation to other teams.
3. Nico has been the more consistent driver in the team and also the quicker of the 2 drivers.
4. Ross hasn't been as sharp making calls on the file during races.

Overall. Mercedes as a whole (including Michael and Nico) have been a disappointment thus far.