Captain Tightpants
Dec 12 2009, 11:20
Nobody knows - there's been no official word. The Mercedes, Ferrari, Toro Rosso, Lotus, Campos, Virgin and USF1 designations all remain unknown, for now.
Timstr11
Dec 14 2009, 13:32
Apparently Brawn were the victim of a big scam involving Henkel as (supposedly 90 million euro) sponsors.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-...-1-1562884.htmlI will try to translate when I'm home.
Hmmm, Fry and sponsors.
Why am I not surprised ...
Where Michael goes where money follows,... at least till now... So we will see Schumacher very soon in the Brawn out fit?
FlatOverCrest
Dec 14 2009, 14:10
QUOTE
"It is my plan for the future and my objective to once again enjoy success with Mercedes," Heidfeld told German Press Agency dpa. "For this reason, I have already turned down concrete opportunities and we are continuing to give other possibilities a lesser priority."
Maybe Nick agrees to be Mercedes third driver for this year, providing he gets the seat in 2011, after Schumachers one year deal is expired?
Frans is going to have so many people aiming comments at him WHEN Schumacher is confirmed at Mercedes GP for 2010...
salamin
Dec 14 2009, 14:13
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ Dec 14 2009, 14:32)

Apparently Brawn were the victim of a big scam involving Henkel as (supposedly 90 million euro) sponsors.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-...-1-1562884.htmlI will try to translate when I'm home.
Mercedes in legal dispute with sponsor
QUOTE (One @ Dec 14 2009, 08:57)

Where Michael goes where money follows,... at least till now... So we will see Schumacher very soon in the Brawn out fit?
Just 2 more small hurdles.
1...Ferrari contract
2...Medical OK for neck
Timstr11
Dec 14 2009, 14:22
QUOTE (salamin @ Dec 14 2009, 15:13)

I don't understand how Brawn can sign a sponshorship deal of such a magnitude, without having at least shaken hands with the CEO of Henkel...
They clearly lack experience at Brawn when it comes to acquiring sponsors.
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ Dec 14 2009, 15:22)

I don't understand how Brawn can sign a sponshorship deal of such a magnitude, without having at least shaken hands with the CEO of Henkel...
They clearly lack experience at Brawn when it comes to acquiring sponsors.
Lost JB, desperately looking to sign MS to save face and now this; it's not just raining, it is pouring...
juicy sushi
Dec 14 2009, 14:28
Yes, that seems rather shockingly poor business acumen on their part. I can only hope they've got other offers as well.
It's too bad as well because I would think Henkel would have made a good sponsor for the team itself.
robracer
Dec 14 2009, 14:29
I don't know if
this has already been posted today.
QUOTE
It is my plan for the future and my objective to once again enjoy success with Mercedes
For this reason, I have already turned down concrete opportunities and we are continuing to give other possibilities a lesser priority
So Henkel out? There goes the Schumacher budget then!
QUOTE (juicy sushi @ Dec 14 2009, 15:28)

Yes, that seems rather shockingly poor business acumen on their part. I can only hope they've got other offers as well.
It's too bad as well because I would think Henkel would have made a good sponsor for the team itself.
more here
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ Dec 14 2009, 09:22)

I don't understand how Brawn can sign a sponshorship deal of such a magnitude, without having at least shaken hands with the CEO of Henkel...
They clearly lack experience at Brawn when it comes to acquiring sponsors.
When the Henkel deal was done with Brawn, they informed Mercedes.
The chairman then called the chairman of Henkel, who knew nothing about this.
It was therefore Mercedes that uncovered the fraud.
QUOTE (metz @ Dec 14 2009, 15:36)

When the Henkel deal was done with Brawn, they informed Mercedes.
The chairman then called the chairman of Henkel, who knew nothing about this.
It was therefore Mercedes that uncovered the fraud.
IF it is as simple and straight forward like that, why then is Henkel suing Brawn?
QUOTE (metz @ Dec 14 2009, 15:42)

To get the money back.
I wasn't aware money had changed hands. The papers were forged to obtain a loan from the bank so I don't see Henkel's account department paying out in the first place.
Timstr11
Dec 14 2009, 14:53
QUOTE (femi @ Dec 14 2009, 15:39)

IF it is as simple and straight forward like that, why then is Henkel suing Brawn?
Henkel suing Brawn? Where did you read that?
Mercedes is arguing that the deal stands and thus want money from Henkel (not the other way around).
At leats, that's how I understand it.
athlon
Dec 14 2009, 14:55
Hopefully the other agreements with bwin, Becks or Orange will be fine.
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ Dec 14 2009, 15:53)

Henkel suing Brawn? Where did you read that?
Mercedes is arguing that the deal stands and thus want money from Henkel (not the other way around).
At leats, that's how I understand it.
Henkel suing Brawn
athlon
Dec 14 2009, 15:07
Rinehart
Dec 14 2009, 15:08
QUOTE (femi @ Dec 14 2009, 15:01)

They're not suing them!
QUOTE (metz @ Dec 14 2009, 15:36)

When the Henkel deal was done with Brawn, they informed Mercedes.
The chairman then called the chairman of Henkel, who knew nothing about this.
It was therefore Mercedes that uncovered the fraud.
That's just hilarious.
Fry makes a deal worth 90 mio and never meets the CEO of Henkel?
I mean, 90 mio. That's almost 2 budgets of the new, small teams.
Should we laugh or cry?
QUOTE (Rinehart @ Dec 14 2009, 16:08)

They're not suing them!
How do you interpret this statement:
QUOTE (Reuters UK)
Henkel filed suit last month against Formula One team Brawn GP over the incident, having in September informed carmaker Daimler -- which bought a controlling stake in Brawn last month -- that no such contract existed, a Henkel statement said.
QUOTE (peroa @ Dec 14 2009, 10:09)

That's just hilarious.
Fry makes a deal worth 90 mio and never meets the CEO of Henkel?
I mean, 90 mio. That's almost 2 budgets of the new, small teams.
Should we laugh or cry?
We can assume it was a multy-year deal.
The Henkel executive had forged his chairman's signature. (?)
Could this have been one of the reasons why JB left Brawn for Mclaren and Mercedes going all out to sign on MS? This had been going on since September...
BcnRaceFan
Dec 14 2009, 15:43
What will next year have in store for us? It is amazing what people in the team ranks of F1 try to pull off.
Chuck
QUOTE (femi @ Dec 14 2009, 16:38)

Could this have been one of the reasons why JB left Brawn for Mclaren and Mercedes going all out to sign on MS? This had been going on since September...
Well, it certainly isn't the dream (media) start Haug imagined ...
athlon
Dec 14 2009, 15:45
QUOTE (femi @ Dec 14 2009, 16:38)

Could this have been one of the reasons why JB left Brawn for Mclaren and Mercedes going all out to sign on MS? This had been going on since September...
I think no.
sleenster
Dec 14 2009, 15:56
First they lose both their drivers and the #1 on their car, now it seems they never had a 130 million dollar sponsorship they thought they had all along...
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/12/14/merc...1m-henkel-deal/http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/...rt-mercedes-gp/
Jordana
Dec 14 2009, 15:59
QUOTE (sleenster @ Dec 14 2009, 16:56)

First they lose both their drivers and the #1 on their car, now it seems they never had a 130 million dollar sponsorship they thought they had all along...
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/12/14/merc...1m-henkel-deal/http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/...rt-mercedes-gp/If Schumi joins the Team... Do you really think they will have problems getting sponsors? I dont.
HoldenRT
Dec 14 2009, 16:06
I'd like to see Schumi return to F1, it'd definately spice things up. But it hasn't happened yet.
Stolen stationary? Haven't heard that excuse before.
Speaking that they lost Barichello is really laughable. I dont think they even wanted him.
Secondly, Rubens threatened Buttons championship. This speaks everything about losing Button. People will realise he is not that great when Hamilton crash him next season.
On topic, the answer is NO.
potmotr
Dec 14 2009, 16:16
Man, 90 million euros isn't to be sneezed at.
athlon
Dec 14 2009, 16:18
I think Mercedes have their found. OK, it's a big loss, but I really hope that other sponsor deal are signed and sealed with Orange, bwin or Becks.
Timstr11
Dec 14 2009, 16:38
QUOTE (femi @ Dec 14 2009, 16:09)

How do you interpret this statement:
Mercedes/Brawn are claiming the sponsor contract is valid. Henkel are disputing it. Simple.
QUOTE (sleenster @ Dec 14 2009, 16:56)

First they lose both their drivers and the #1 on their car, now it seems they never had a 130 million dollar sponsorship they thought they had all along...
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/12/14/merc...1m-henkel-deal/http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/...rt-mercedes-gp/Since mercedes bought into Brawn, it seems whenever they are in the news it is usually for the wrong reasons
athlon
Dec 14 2009, 16:43
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ Dec 14 2009, 17:38)

Mercedes/Brawn are claiming the sponsor contract is valid. Henkel are disputing it. Simple.
I think they can sort it out.
QUOTE (athlon @ Dec 14 2009, 17:43)

I think they can sort it out.
Certainly, Henkel aint gonna pay a dime.
Timstr11
Dec 14 2009, 16:47
QUOTE (athlon @ Dec 14 2009, 17:43)

I think they can sort it out.
With Henkel? Not sure they will sort it out. If signatures were forged, Mercedes has no case.
The question remains: have they found a replacement for Henkel.
If finally they sign schumacher then replacement for henkel wont be a big deal. Friends of Schu and Merc will fork out the money.
dabrasco
Dec 14 2009, 16:52
so this was the sponsor they were all so unnecc. secretive about?
I bet it was the forgers that told them to keep it secret... and Nick Fry and co amazingly did that and naively never met or spoke with the CEO and stuff?
wow
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ Dec 14 2009, 17:38)

Mercedes/Brawn are claiming the sponsor contract is valid. Henkel are disputing it. Simple.
Nope, it means Henkel filed a suit against Brawn - it can't be clearer and simpler!
It is so reported here as well
athlon
Dec 14 2009, 16:52
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ Dec 14 2009, 17:47)

With Henkel? Not sure they will sort it out. If signatures were forged, Mercedes has no case.
The question remains: have they found a replacement for Henkel.
I hope so that Fry has found more sponsors than one. Actually Henkel wasn't among the possible title sponsors for the next year.
athlon
Dec 14 2009, 16:54
QUOTE (femi @ Dec 14 2009, 17:52)

Nope, it means Henkel filed a suit against Brawn - it can't be clearer and simpler!
But why? Okay, it could be a subject of a legal dispute, but why should Henkel suing Mercedes? I don't think that Brawn got the money.
QUOTE (athlon @ Dec 14 2009, 17:54)

But why? Okay, it could be a subject of a legal dispute, but why should Henkel suing Mercedes? I don't think that Brawn got the money.
I don't know but if they are bringing a case against the ex-employee that committed a fraud to the benefit of Brawn that could be at their expense, they may be taking this approach based on legal advice from their attorneys. This is just a guess by the way. One should also keep in mind that Brawn are arguing that Henkel are bound to fulfill the forged contract i.e. pay up
athlon
Dec 14 2009, 17:01
QUOTE (femi @ Dec 14 2009, 17:58)

I don't know but if they are bringing a case against the ex-employee that committed a fraud to the benefit of Brawn that could be at their expense, they may be taking this approach based on legal advice from their attorneys. This is just a guess by the way. One should also keep in mind that Brawn are arguing that Henkel is bound to fulfill the forged contract i.e. pay up
Thanks.... it's fantastic... I hope that there are other signed contracts with other sponsors.
QUOTE (athlon @ Dec 14 2009, 18:01)

Thanks.... it's fantastic... I hope that there are other signed contracts with other sponsors.
I find it really strange that €16million is missing. This suggest to me that there was no intention to paying Brawn the whole money as per the contract and if that is the case, it is bound to be a problem sooner or later unless both parties are in on it. I hope not but if they are, this may be the reason for the suit been filed.
This is pure speculation and I hope it is no more than a wild one.
Rinehart
Dec 14 2009, 17:10
QUOTE (femi @ Dec 14 2009, 15:09)

How do you interpret this statement:
They are defending their right NOT to enter into the contract with Brawn as opposed to pursuing Brawn for any money.
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