QUOTE (libano @ May 28 2010, 12:23)
Mercedes look less and less competitive as the season progresses....
Well, to move up the grid you have to put new parts on...
I have not spotted new parts on the car and their so called "F-Duct" must be a joke.
It´s nowhere near as effective as the ones the other teams are using.
Rambazamba
May 28 2010, 12:37
I think it was ok but somehow they could not gain an advantage with the soft tyres.
QUOTE (libano @ May 28 2010, 13:23)
Mercedes look less and less competitive as the season progresses....
They look to be the 4th fastest team which is where they have been at every GP. At best Mercedes/BAR build solid cars, 2004/2009(they only won because everyone else built crap cars- there wasn't anything outstanding about Brawns car) and at worst they build complete lemons. This years car is reasonable competitive which is where most people expected it to be. Next years car will more than likely be another average car as it will be designed by the same people as the current car. By the start of next season Mercedes will probably have poached a number of staff from the teams ahead of them so I would guess that they will be targetting 2012 as their chance to fight at the front.
F1 -official website, interview with RB about possibility that team might focus on next year...
Q: The media would have us believe that the Mercedes GP car will more and more be built around Michael Schumacher’s requirements. Is that so?
RB: No. I wish I knew what these requirements are! It is pure perception that the car is build around Michael. If you ask me I would not know what sort of car that would be. A car that responds properly, a car that has a good level of downforce, a car that has power will benefit both our drivers. There is no conscious development to create a car that suits Michael Schumacher, because I don’t know what that is. It’s hard to do something if you have no idea what it is.
____________
Excerpt has been inserted for benefit of those who are lazy to read anything beyond this website, and argue the case that team's effort is detrimental to NR for sole benefit of MS.
MikeTekRacing
May 28 2010, 13:57
QUOTE (eoin @ May 28 2010, 15:47)
there wasn't anything outstanding about Brawns car
surely not
it just raped the field without winter testing, with fixing an engine at the last moment and barely getting the finances to start the season
it was a normal car
QUOTE (MikeTekRacing @ May 28 2010, 14:57)
surely not
it just raped the field without winter testing, with fixing an engine at the last moment and barely getting the finances to start the season
it was a normal car
Money was never an issue.
What I am saying is nothing new. There was nothing special about the Brawn DD, it's just that they had it and the other tops teams didn't. Once the other teams hacked on their DD they were suddenly right up there with a car that had been completely designed around a DD.
Rambazamba
May 29 2010, 12:07
So conclusion?
I would say they made a bigger "smaller" step with the car
Let´s see how the race pace is
P5 and P6 for tomorrow, very nice.
I wonder what was wrong with Rosberg´s last run, he wasn´t able to improve his time and that´s not typical from him.
Another big problem is that Michael should start the race with those tires that he destroyed when he went to the grabel during his last lap.
@ Lamag
According to Ross Brawn he has to start with the set of tyres he used to set his quickest time in Q3 and that's the previous set of Softs,
which should definately be in better shape ;)
Hope MS can even catch Button at the start.. starting from the clean side
salamin
May 29 2010, 12:39
very good starts from MS this year so far, starting from 4th (dirty side) button should be more than possible to overtake
QUOTE (salamin @ May 29 2010, 12:39)
very good starts from MS this year so far, starting from 4th (dirty side) button should be more than possible to overtake
Dirty side is a real disadvantage in Turkey:
Alsonso: "We've been practising starts from the clean and the dirty side and saw there's a difference of one position when you start from the dirty side"
korzeniow
May 29 2010, 12:43
Great job by Mercedes' drivers
I'm impressed.
Rambazamba
May 29 2010, 12:45
They desperately need to find more top speed for Montreal. Those McLaren´s are 13 kph faster
It might be possible to pass Button tomorrow at the beginning but it will be much harder to stay in front of him than in Barcelona.
Diablobb81
May 29 2010, 12:47
I hope Schumi passes Button, blocks him and Rosberg can then pass him too. Perfect.
merschu
May 29 2010, 14:10
Bild got to hear some of the radio conversation in the Mercedes garage. Here is the article.
QUOTE
The Silver Stars ignite the engines. My ear drum in the red. Headphones on. You always see on TV from bulky and heavy. In reality, they are very easy. I hear a slight noise and dive into the other world.
To understand: Jock Clear is the engineer of Rosberg. Andy Shovlin by Schumacher. The two Britons, all speak English.
Shovlin to Schumi: "free range. You can get out. "
Schumi: "Ready for the check."
Shovlin: "tire pressure is at about 20 to an end the round."
Schumi after a pause. "What round was the pressure at the end of the last?"
Shovlin, "20.7."
I hear a lot and do not understand. Secret. They spark: "Mixture 7 ...", "40 degrees high ...", "plan for 6 NM ..."," Try FCT ... "
Rosberg engineer to Clear Rosberg: "Satisfaction with front wing six?"
Rosberg: Yeah, but can change the nose, if you want. "
Clear: "Good. Come clean. "
Shovlin to Schumi: "You should now be good seventh in curve Wind comes up. 5-7 km / h. "Pause.
Schumi radioed: "I think my tires to leave." So pure. Tire change.
Rosberg: "Change what?"
Clear: "I'm waiting for the data from Michael." Exchange. Nix secrecy in the team.
Schumacher rolls in the box. Shovlin: "And?"
Schumi almost "too much understeer in Turn 4 and 5, the output curve 7 and curve at the end of 8th"
Wow. The guy feels everything seems bound up with the car. Only one will ever world champion. But it goes with the car but still get at Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari?
Schumis Engineer: "A little time for changes. A degree of front wing. "Schumi," OK ".
Clear: "Should try FCT."
What is the secret? FCT = front wing adjustment, 6 NM stands for pressure, Mixture 7 is a fuel mixture.
Sutil accident. Flash radio to the driver: "Turn 8 Yellow, Yellow in Sector 2, curve 8th" seconds warning. Clear to Rosberg, "Give Gas yet in sector 1 and 3"
Last instruction to Schumi: "Cool" from the engine. Cool "the engine as much as possible."
Link
FlashMaster
May 29 2010, 14:14
QUOTE
Rosberg: "Change what?"
Clear: "I'm waiting for the data from Michael."
Exchange. No secrecy in the team
Haters should save this quote
Timstr11
May 29 2010, 14:37
Since yesterday I've been scouring the net for pictures of what has been updated on the aero side, and I finally found one:
the diffuser.They now sport a larger exit.
Scotracer
May 29 2010, 14:41
1 Jenson Button 320.4
2 Lewis Hamilton 320.1
3 Mark Webber 314.0
4 Nico Hulkenberg 313.6
5 Sebastian Vettel 313.6
6 Rubens Barrichello 313.3
7 Jaime Alguersuari 312.7
8 Adrian Sutil 311.9
9 Vitaly Petrov 311.9
10 Fernando Alonso 311.9
11 Kamui Kobayashi 311.6
12 Vitantonio Liuzzi 311.5
13 Robert Kubica 311.5
14 Felipe Massa 311.2
15 Sebastien Buemi 310.0
16 Pedro de la Rosa 309.8
17 Nico Rosberg 307.6
18 Karun Chandhok 307.6
19 Michael Schumacher 307.5
20 Bruno Senna 307.2
21 Timo Glock 304.0
22 Lucas di Grassi 303.7
23 Jarno Trulli 302.2
24 Heikki Kovalainen 301.0
Terrible straight line speed.
Rambazamba
May 29 2010, 14:44
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ May 29 2010, 14:37)
Since yesterday I've been scouring the net for pictures of what has been updated on the aero side, and I finally found one:
the diffuser.They now sport a larger exit.
thx. Good find.
QUOTE (Scotracer @ May 29 2010, 14:41)
Terrible straight line speed.
True. Doesn´t bode well for Montreal...
rad787
May 29 2010, 14:47
QUOTE (Scotracer @ May 29 2010, 22:41)
1 Jenson Button 320.4
2 Lewis Hamilton 320.1
3 Mark Webber 314.0
4 Nico Hulkenberg 313.6
5 Sebastian Vettel 313.6
6 Rubens Barrichello 313.3
7 Jaime Alguersuari 312.7
8 Adrian Sutil 311.9
9 Vitaly Petrov 311.9
10 Fernando Alonso 311.9
11 Kamui Kobayashi 311.6
12 Vitantonio Liuzzi 311.5
13 Robert Kubica 311.5
14 Felipe Massa 311.2
15 Sebastien Buemi 310.0
16 Pedro de la Rosa 309.8
17 Nico Rosberg 307.6
18 Karun Chandhok 307.6
19 Michael Schumacher 307.5
20 Bruno Senna 307.2
21 Timo Glock 304.0
22 Lucas di Grassi 303.7
23 Jarno Trulli 302.2
24 Heikki Kovalainen 301.0
Terrible straight line speed.
Ironic, but they are up there with the top 2 teams. What they lack in top speed they found in the slower sections.
arknor
May 29 2010, 14:53
QUOTE (rad787 @ May 29 2010, 15:47)
Ironic, but they are up there with the top 2 teams. What they lack in top speed they found in the slower sections.
but it doesnt bode well for them beeing so slow, hard to over take easy to be over taking (unless they get much better exit speed)
QUOTE (arknor @ May 29 2010, 15:53)
but it doesnt bode well for them beeing so slow, hard to over take easy to be over taking (unless they get much better exit speed)
It will be interesting to see how the F-duct is used in Montreal. If McLaren take off some rearwing then surely the F-duct becomes less useful so maybe they will be running more wing than the other teams and have a similar top speed to everyone else.
SeanValen
May 29 2010, 15:38
QUOTE (FlashMaster @ May 29 2010, 15:14)
Haters should save this quote
QUOTE
Rosberg: "Change what?"
Clear: "I'm waiting for the data from Michael."
Exchange. No secrecy in the team
It should not just be saved this quote, but perhaps stuck as a topic itself-post alongside this thread on every page. Like a forum pop up post/bombard the thread with truth. Likely still be ignored by some.
Did Schumacher going off in turn 8 destroy Rosbergs last qualifying lap?
Dragonfly
May 29 2010, 16:27
QUOTE (Mr j @ May 29 2010, 19:24)
Did Schumacher going off in turn 8 destroy Rosbergs last qualifying lap?
Yes, yes, yes.
It really does not matter that Rosberg was ahead. he knew that MS was thinking about destroying his lap.
weston
May 29 2010, 16:32
QUOTE (Mr j @ May 29 2010, 12:24)
Did Schumacher going off in turn 8 destroy Rosbergs last qualifying lap?
Oh, sure. He always does that.
(No. Rosberg was ahead of Schumi. Ignore facts to keep prerequisites alive.)
Rambazamba
May 29 2010, 19:40
Ross about the F-Duct: "It´s a strong tool - if you can make it work 100%. We have yet to use the full advantage of it."
MaxisOne
May 29 2010, 20:00
QUOTE (Rambazamba @ May 29 2010, 15:40)
Ross about the F-Duct: "It´s a strong tool - if you can make it work 100%. We have yet to use the full advantage of it."
That was the dissapointment of the weekend for me .. Dont come out saying your going to bring out not even a regular f-Duct but a more Lux F-Duct... Borrowing from the "Matic" Merc terminology i was whooping and hollering yea we have the "F-Matic" F-Duct... then realizing they didnt run it...
Comon Ross and Norbert ... If it aint ready .. say nothing ..
Timstr11
May 29 2010, 20:12
QUOTE (MaxisOne @ May 29 2010, 22:00)
That was the dissapointment of the weekend for me .. Dont come out saying your going to bring out not even a regular f-Duct but a more Lux F-Duct... Borrowing from the "Matic" Merc terminology i was whooping and hollering yea we have the "F-Matic" F-Duct... then realizing they didnt run it...
Comon Ross and Norbert ... If it aint ready .. say nothing ..
They did run it (aperture on the rear wing). Merc's version is passive and they have a new iteration each race.
The tricky parts being developed are inside the rear wing assembly and aperture. You won't see it.
What Ross is saying is that they have not been able to maximize its potential yet.
Rambazamba
May 29 2010, 20:15
btw. is it true that the passive system won´t be affected by the ban next year?
Timstr11
May 29 2010, 20:20
QUOTE (Rambazamba @ May 29 2010, 22:15)
btw. is it true that the passive system won´t be affected by the ban next year?
I think so, as I don't believe the revised rule will ban blown wings, but rather the driver directly operating the duct.
Rambazamba
May 29 2010, 20:26
That would be really nice and could give them a small head start if others want to copy it for next season.
1amiga
May 30 2010, 02:07
In the latest qualifying Mercs have moved from 4th to 3rd fastest car at least here in Turkey. So we should celebrate the fact the updates have moved the car forward.
And maybe Monaco was not a one off in terms of car speed.
Still race pace will be important to see.
In some ways the slow trap speeds but still getting a decent lap time bodes well - it shows that the rest of the car is doing well. With out the F Duct the mclarens would be alot slower and maybe not as quick as the Merc ?
Yes its probably more profitable to keep with the passive system as i think it unlikely that a non redbull is going to win the championship.
Talryyn
May 30 2010, 02:51
They are in a good spot development wise right now, but not where they want to be for the WCC. Mercedes wants them to win races, so it could be interesting, I am sure Ross is keen to get on with 2011 once they know the rubber. But Mercedes with the money over their heads to preform this year as well.
I am happy to see them improve, as well as I am that Massa did better than Alonso.
Timstr11
May 30 2010, 11:47
According to Brundle, the Mercedes F-duct is cockpit operated (and thus active). The ducting runs through the end-plate.
Edit: Also confirmed on Rosberg pit radio, urging him to use F-duct.
P4 and P5, not too shabby ladies and gents!!!!
Massa_f1
May 30 2010, 13:36
QUOTE (Wade @ May 30 2010, 14:35)
P4 and P5, not too shabby ladies and gents!!!!
No not bad but we need stright line speed!
Diablobb81
May 30 2010, 13:42
Race pace is still terrible.
Am I alone being in distress, seeing Michael trailing the race lead by 30 sec? The only good news in this that I can detect is perhaps hope, that in resources MGP will be ahead of others next year. I stay in doubt that the team will be in a competetive position this year. If they do, it will be a pleasant suprise.
sephiroth
May 30 2010, 13:43
Car sucks right now. I can't believe how slow they were on the straights.
Rambazamba
May 30 2010, 13:47
Yes, race pace and top speed are the two biggest things that need to be improved quickly.
P4 and P5 was the maximum today.
FlashMaster
May 30 2010, 13:50
Not a good day for haters like Corked Wine. First we get to know that they share their setups and finally Schumi beats Rosberg for the third time ina row
Scotracer
May 30 2010, 13:52
They both got the most out of the car today. Pity they didn't have more straight line speed because Michael might have been able to hold up Button. Need more speed, in more ways than one.
Galko877
May 30 2010, 14:07
Merc is pretty slow in race conditions and especially on straight line speed, so yes, this was the max from both drivers. Well done to them.
Rambazamba
May 30 2010, 14:18
So what could they do to improve the race pace?
Work with more fuel during practice?
Further changes to the front/rear suspension?
Scotracer
May 30 2010, 14:30
QUOTE (Rambazamba @ May 30 2010, 15:18)
So what could they do to improve the race pace?
Work with more fuel during practice?
Further changes to the front/rear suspension?
The car doesn't appear to be lacking mechanical grip as the 1st and 3rd sectors aren't too bad. What they need is more aero efficiency; they need to increase the L/D ratio by a great margin. The car appears balanced (less so with fuel onboard it has to be said) but just slow.
QUOTE (Rambazamba @ May 30 2010, 10:18)
So what could they do to improve the race pace?
Work with more fuel during practice?
Further changes to the front/rear suspension?
It's not any one issue:
1. Areo. Need to improve downforce so they can run less wing.
2. Maximize the f-duct.
3. Seems they are still having trouble with the option tire.
It's not any one thing, just tweaking everything to try and find that extra few 10th. However, Areo may be their biggest issue right now IMO so probably a lot of hours being spent in the Wind Tunnel.
shonguiz
May 30 2010, 15:08
The car is simply underdevelopped, they can either use it as to experiment and thus continue to work on it or do it a la ferrari and start working on the w02.
F1 Tor.
May 30 2010, 15:12
Best of the rest at the moment, but that's about it. Finishing 30 sec. behind the winner is humbling to say the least.
QUOTE (F1 Tor. @ May 30 2010, 11:12)
Best of the rest at the moment, but that's about it. Finishing 30 sec. behind the winner is humbling to say the least.
Humbling... why? I'm sure Ferrari would like to have that title of best of the rest right now
RedBull / Newey have been at it for years and years to finally get to where they are. Big Budgets. NEWEY!
McLaren are well.. McLaren...
BAR/Honda/BrawnGP/Mercedes don't have that year over year of consistent and steady development to make then a top flight outfit. To be 3rd is simply amazing to be honest. Mercedes should be very pleased with what they haven't accomplished to date.
Took over BrawnGP which was a team severely underfunded.
Signed on Schumi and got him up to speed within 1/2 season.
Have been respectable without any significant team mistakes.
Solid base in which to develop the 2010 challengers for the next 1/4 season and a good base to work on the 2011 car as soon as this ongoing tire supplier issue is wrapped up.
I'd give them a 8/10 at this point in the season.
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