The AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board > Jenson and Lewis Scorecard 2010 [merged]

JarnoA

Jan 30 2010, 00:24

QUOTE (The Ragged Edge @ Jan 29 2010, 22:29)

I heard many a fighter talk a good fight before facing Iron Mike Tyson, only to get battered and knocked out cold within 3 rounds. The only surprise will be Button still having confidence come the first European race in Barcelona. If he is not 3-1 down by then, I'll be shocked.

You mean like "Buster" Douglas?

It is a good analogy though. Everyone thought that Tyson was unbeatable, then Buster "busted" the myth and he went downwards from there.

Maybe Lewis will end up biting Jenson's ear off.

Brian O Flaherty

Jan 30 2010, 00:29

I haven't been a fan of Lewis' behaviour or antics since he came into F1 but that's separate from his driving ability and I mention it only to show that I'm not biased towards him when assessing McLaren's driver line-up this season. To put it mildly I am no Lewis fanboy.

Basically I think Button is going to get his arse handed to him on a plate, repeatedly. I just can't see a scenario where Button gets the edge unless the extra (fuel) weight on the rear tyres through the first half of a race disproportionately benefits the smoother driving style. But I just can't see it. I think he was very brave and it was admirable to switch to McLaren but I think those who; at the time; called it professional suicide will be proven correct.

klyster

Jan 30 2010, 00:32

QUOTE (undersquare @ Jan 30 2010, 00:18)

Yeah I think Jenson's extra 5 years makes quite a difference.

I hate to nitpick, but it's 7 years actually ;) 2000 to 2006. Mind you , it's not like Lewis hadn't seen a camera before F1 eh?

undersquare

Jan 30 2010, 09:31

QUOTE (klyster @ Jan 30 2010, 00:32)

I hate to nitpick, but it's 7 years actually ;) 2000 to 2006. Mind you , it's not like Lewis hadn't seen a camera before F1 eh?

I was meaning calendar years really, simple maturity is a help with these things, but they're both very good in front of a camera. It'll be interesting to see how their demeanours evolve during the season.

klyster

Jan 30 2010, 10:02

Oh, yeah, I misunderstood sorry, and yes, good point, I agree.
It will be interesting to see how the relationship between them evolves as the season rolls on.
At least we can use this thread for some perspective eh?

THE "driverider"

Jan 30 2010, 16:06

I'm more in favour of in the red corner Jenson/Lewis and in the blue corner Michael/Nico. With suggestiosn of Ferrari and Red Bull in a bit of bother I think we could see some good racing between the four. I still don't think Lewis will blow Jenson away.

MinT

Jan 30 2010, 16:12

I,m a fan of Hamilton - well hii driving anyway but recently his need to claim involvement in everything is getting a bit much - first the downforce, then the first thing he says at the car launch is he helped design it. Now it was his idea they sign Button - well frankly I hope Button beats him and Hamilton learns a bit of humility in the process.

timba

Feb 3 2010, 17:15

Jenson was quietly brilliant today, already on Hamilton's pace despite doing 26 less laps.

It's just the start, Lewis must be baffled how someone could step into the car/team and simply be quicker.

Fuel and conditions corrected JB is likely much faster - no need to go for media laps *cough* His confidence must be sky high GET IN THERE SON

PNSD

Feb 3 2010, 17:20

Fuel and conditions corrected??

Stop trolling and move along.

mstar

Feb 3 2010, 21:26

QUOTE (timba @ Feb 3 2010, 17:15)

Jenson was quietly brilliant today, already on Hamilton's pace despite doing 26 less laps.

It's just the start, Lewis must be baffled how someone could step into the car/team and simply be quicker.

Fuel and conditions corrected JB is likely much faster - no need to go for media laps *cough* His confidence must be sky high GET IN THERE SON

aye? and somehow from your sofa u know the fuel loads and suddenly told us here that fuel corrected jb is quicker? go away and stop trolling

jjcale

Feb 3 2010, 22:27

No, no, he should keep going... I can honestly say, I specially look out for his posts ... they never fail to bring a smile to my face.

Anyway, round one to LH... Pity JB could not get more laps in today. Its only 7 days testing till Bahrain.

pspidey

Feb 4 2010, 04:54

QUOTE (timba @ Feb 3 2010, 12:15)

Jenson was quietly brilliant today, already on Hamilton's pace despite doing 26 less laps.

It's just the start, Lewis must be baffled how someone could step into the car/team and simply be quicker.

Fuel and conditions corrected JB is likely much faster - no need to go for media laps *cough* His confidence must be sky high GET IN THERE SON

Keep shoveling it. We can smell it from a mile away.

Somehow, I think someone is going to be getting a new avatar not too soon from now.

Rubens Hakkamacher

Feb 4 2010, 05:14

Lewis will prevail in qualifying I believe.

Jenson drives incredibly smooth and perfect, if you see him live. Lewis takes similar lines but brakes later; and willing to take oddball lines to try to get an advantage. His style will have to be adjusted as the race goes along, Jenson will be "steady as she goes".

I hate to say it, the new rules favor Jenson, but I think Lewis is a faster driver.

So qualifying is going to be all important. Which means, unless Mercedes got it wrong, M. Schumacher will be at the top in his ever consistent self again; does Lewis lose his tires trying to get around him before the tire change? I could see a lot of races ending with Jenson and Schumacher tailing each other but with shot tires - in which case, Michael will be the more aggressive.

Or maybe not....

timba

Feb 4 2010, 16:55

QUOTE (PNSD @ Feb 3 2010, 17:20)

Fuel and conditions corrected??

Yes.

QUOTE

McLaren also made use of special aerodynamic paint, applied to the side of the MP4-25, with Button assessing the aero performance at a certain speed by driving along the start/finish straight on the pit lane speed limiter on Wednesday. For the record, Hamilton was the fastest of the two Englishman, with his best effort of 1:12.256 comparing to Button's 1:12.951. The fact that McLaren was ahead of Mercedes by a significant margin on Tuesday but vice versa on the other two days confirmed the varying team strategies.

No wonder Jenson seemed slow what with his team forcing him to use a speed limiter! It's likely a campaign by someone to reduce his confidence. We all saw the live presenation. Jenson had the trademark silky smooth Bond-style yet again, delivering great words of inspiration to McLaren and its sponsors. Meanwhile Hamilton seem disturbed to be in the background. To be No 2.

Well after reading JB's interview we know he's not fazed by laptimes. He's happily chipping in dev work and Hamilton can concentrate on the rest.

alg7_munif

Feb 4 2010, 17:07

Lewis 26 laps stint is more impressive than Jenson 20 laps stint. Round 1 verdict: Lewis 1-0 Jenson.

Simon Says

Feb 4 2010, 17:41

QUOTE (alg7_munif @ Feb 4 2010, 18:07)

Lewis 26 laps stint is more impressive than Jenson 20 laps stint. Round 1 verdict: Lewis 1-0 Jenson.

Also factor in that the track was more grippy with all the extra rubber

dabrasco

Feb 4 2010, 20:56

QUOTE (timba @ Feb 4 2010, 17:55)

Yes.

No wonder Jenson seemed slow what with his team forcing him to use a speed limiter! It's likely a campaign by someone to reduce his confidence. We all saw the live presenation. Jenson had the trademark silky smooth Bond-style yet again, delivering great words of inspiration to McLaren and its sponsors. Meanwhile Hamilton seem disturbed to be in the background. To be No 2.

Well after reading JB's interview we know he's not fazed by laptimes. He's happily chipping in dev work and Hamilton can concentrate on the rest.

our resident troll delivers another gem

BullHead

Feb 4 2010, 22:40

Lewis qualifies > Jenson 9/10, but Jense catches as Lewis has to pit earlier to change his tyres. Even stevens IMO if there was no on else on track. But there will be, so who battles under pressure better? (I mean not against each other but against Ferrari / Red Bull)

alg7_munif

Feb 4 2010, 23:41

QUOTE (BullHead @ Feb 4 2010, 23:40)

Lewis qualifies > Jenson 9/10, but Jense catches as Lewis has to pit earlier to change his tyres. Even stevens IMO if there was no on else on track. But there will be, so who battles under pressure better? (I mean not against each other but against Ferrari / Red Bull)

If Lewis needs to pit earlier and still use two sets of tyres like Button, won't that mean Lewis will have more laps with fresh tyres and little fuel onboard?

undersquare

Feb 4 2010, 23:48

Jenson's seat position problem seems a bit weird to me, they had the mockup with unlimited time available on it, presumably. They don't need anthropometry data when they have Jense's actual body right there. Don't they have sightlines? Helmet positions designed in relative to the airbox? Was it not a very good mockup?

I don't understand, nobody would be surprised he moves down under braking and what have you when it hits the track. What went wrong? Track time is gold dust.

I have a slight 'sensation' Jense didn't fully take responsibility when he needed to. Just no feeling of that in his interview about it.

Brought it here because I can't imagine Lewis being caught out like that and losing so much track time on his first day.

Bonaventura

Feb 5 2010, 00:03

QUOTE (undersquare @ Feb 5 2010, 00:48)

Jenson's seat position problem seems a bit weird to me, they had the mockup with unlimited time available on it, presumably. They don't need anthropometry data when they have Jense's actual body right there. Don't they have sightlines? Helmet positions designed in relative to the airbox? Was it not a very good mockup?

I don't understand, nobody would be surprised he moves down under braking and what have you when it hits the track. What went wrong? Track time is gold dust.

I have a slight 'sensation' Jense didn't fully take responsibility when he needed to. Just no feeling of that in his interview about it.

Brought it here because I can't imagine Lewis being caught out like that and losing so much track time on his first day.

Perhaps the "seat position problem" was not their only problem
it sounds a bit like an excuse
Maybe technical problems, communication problems...?
Who knows

Anyhow there was a lot to talk about
http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/1324489

Xaus

Feb 5 2010, 00:22

Rosberg and Kubica were also having seat/sighting problems, too. I don't think it means anything at this point. Just part of the testing process and optimization.

undersquare

Feb 5 2010, 00:23

QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Feb 5 2010, 00:03)

Perhaps the "seat position problem" was not their only problem
it sounds a bit like an excuse
Maybe technical problems, communication problems...?
Who knows

I don't suppose Jense was fibbing about it, though as it was happening I was sure it could only be a technical problem to keep him off the track when track time was so vital.

I can't imagine how a driver would ask for a particular seat setup and not get it. For whatever reason, anyway, a slight score for Lewis in their battle...

Orin

Feb 5 2010, 09:44

QUOTE (undersquare @ Feb 4 2010, 23:48)

Jenson's seat position problem seems a bit weird to me, they had the mockup with unlimited time available on it, presumably. They don't need anthropometry data when they have Jense's actual body right there. Don't they have sightlines? Helmet positions designed in relative to the airbox? Was it not a very good mockup?

I don't understand, nobody would be surprised he moves down under braking and what have you when it hits the track. What went wrong? Track time is gold dust.

I have a slight 'sensation' Jense didn't fully take responsibility when he needed to. Just no feeling of that in his interview about it.

Brought it here because I can't imagine Lewis being caught out like that and losing so much track time on his first day.

He also said he spent some time learning systems. I think it's bizarre that a morning was wasted doing this stuff.

Bonaventura

Feb 5 2010, 10:09

I think Button needes everything as perfect as it could be , while Lewis more easily adpapts

It's a little bit OT but
This shows who of both is the more relaxed driver and co driver.

Jenson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITzB-fSW7Pc

Lewis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5t28G8K--k

The Ragged Edge

Feb 5 2010, 10:23

QUOTE (Orin @ Feb 5 2010, 09:44)

He also said he spent some time learning systems. I think it's bizarre that a morning was wasted doing this stuff.

I found this strange also. He said he was in the simulator getting to know his engineers and everything else associated with the team. Then we are told he was learning systems on the morning of his first real test in the car? Complete PR bullsh1t. Either a technical problem, a seat fitting issue, or Jenson got caught out because he never prepared well (ie; learning the systems prior to driving the car for the first time). Considering G.P jumped straight into the car and pounded out the laps. L.H did the same, it was disapointing J.B lost precious time.

undersquare

Feb 5 2010, 10:52

QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Feb 5 2010, 10:09)

I think Button needes everything as perfect as it could be , while Lewis more easily adpapts

It's a little bit OT but
This shows who of both is the more relaxed driver and co driver.

Jenson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITzB-fSW7Pc

Lewis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5t28G8K--k

Yeah they were good fun those videos

And quite interesting insights into their characters as you say. Jake is a good guy too.

timba

Feb 5 2010, 18:10

QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Feb 5 2010, 10:09)

I think Button needes everything as perfect as it could be , while Lewis more easily adpapts

Are you saying Hamilton anywhere near as much adapting to do? Jenson coped with a completely new team, crew, car and was made to use a pit limiter yet posted good times. It's not his fault McLaren suddenly forgot how to perform a seat fitting.

It's okay though. Jenson is all sorted for the next test and will shut up the doubters

craftverk

Feb 5 2010, 18:17

QUOTE (timba @ Feb 5 2010, 18:10)

Are you saying Hamilton anywhere near as much adapting to do? Jenson coped with a completely new team, crew, car and was made to use a pit limiter yet posted good times. It's not his fault McLaren suddenly forgot how to perform a seat fitting.

It's okay though. Jenson is all sorted for the next test and will shut up the doubters

I know you're a troll, but I am curious as to how you will answer the following, if you can:

So Button, if you are a fan of his, you should know that he had been with the same Brackley-based team since 2003, so naturally he would be used to having things his own way by 2009, yet he still struggled later on in the season, why is that?

timba

Feb 5 2010, 18:20

QUOTE (craftverk @ Feb 5 2010, 18:17)

I know you're a troll, but I am curious as to how you will answer the following, if you can:

So Button, if you are a fan of his, you should know that he had been with the same Brackley-based team since 2003, so naturally he would be used to having things his own way by 2009, yet he still struggled later on in the season, why is that?

The same reason Hamilton was pants in the first half of that year.

hint: 3 word letter, starting with "c"

craftverk

Feb 5 2010, 18:25

QUOTE (timba @ Feb 5 2010, 18:20)

The same reason Hamilton was pants in the first half of that year.

hint: 3 word letter, starting with "c"

I'm a little slow today so I am not too sure on what you mean.

alg7_munif

Feb 5 2010, 18:31

QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Feb 5 2010, 11:09)

I think Button needes everything as perfect as it could be , while Lewis more easily adpapts

It's a little bit OT but
This shows who of both is the more relaxed driver and co driver.

Jenson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITzB-fSW7Pc

Lewis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5t28G8K--k

Great video. I think for commercial purpose, they should put both Jenson and Lewis in the same car, one as the driver and the other as the passenger. Then they should try to beat each other's lap time while having their rival in the passenger seat. Btw there is another video about Lewis that came up in your video which I find interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx_-k17PLf0

Simon Says

Feb 5 2010, 18:54

QUOTE (timba @ Feb 5 2010, 19:20)

The same reason Hamilton was pants in the first half of that year.

hint: 3 word letter, starting with "c"

Then how come Rubens won 2 races in the 2nd half of the season.

And don't even try to suggest that Brawn GP had a worse car than Ferrari also.

Jenson was crap in the 2nd season. Kimi and Lewis smoked him.

edit: and there is a real big difference when you drive a car that is more than 2.5 seconds too slow and a car that isn't dominate anymore and can be challenged by other teams

Slartibartfast

Feb 6 2010, 00:07

QUOTE (undersquare @ Feb 5 2010, 00:23)

I don't suppose Jense was fibbing about it, though as it was happening I was sure it could only be a technical problem to keep him off the track when track time was so vital.

I can't imagine how a driver would ask for a particular seat setup and not get it. For whatever reason, anyway, a slight score for Lewis in their battle...

Button: "My seat position needs adjusting, I'm too high in the cockpit."
McLaren Mechanic: "Tricky, it'll take some time."
Button: "Why, it's always been a quick fix in all the other teams I've driven for?"
McLaren Mechanic: "We have a different seat-mounting system this year. If you were a bit shorter, like Lewis, there'd be no problem, but as it is..."
Button: "How the **** have you designed a seat-mounting system that can't accommodate me?"
McLaren Mechanic: "The guy who designed it pushed really hard for it to be incorporated in the car. Apparently it brings three points of downforce."

Bonaventura

Feb 6 2010, 00:14

QUOTE (Slartibartfast @ Feb 6 2010, 01:07)

Button: "My seat position needs adjusting, I'm too high in the cockpit."
McLaren Mechanic: "Tricky, it'll take some time."
Button: "Why, it's always been a quick fix in all the other teams I've driven for?"
McLaren Mechanic: "We have a different seat-mounting system this year. If you were a bit shorter, like Lewis, there'd be no problem, but as it is..."
Button: "How the **** have you designed a seat-mounting system that can't accommodate me?"
McLaren Mechanic: "The guy who designed it pushed really hard for it to be incorporated in the car. Apparently it brings three points of downforce."

he he he

little rascal

undersquare

Feb 6 2010, 00:18

QUOTE (Slartibartfast @ Feb 6 2010, 00:07)

Button: "My seat position needs adjusting, I'm too high in the cockpit."
McLaren Mechanic: "Tricky, it'll take some time."
Button: "Why, it's always been a quick fix in all the other teams I've driven for?"
McLaren Mechanic: "We have a different seat-mounting system this year. If you were a bit shorter, like Lewis, there'd be no problem, but as it is..."
Button: "How the **** have you designed a seat-mounting system that can't accommodate me?"
McLaren Mechanic: "The guy who designed it pushed really hard for it to be incorporated in the car. Apparently it brings three points of downforce."

Mr.Fiasco

Feb 6 2010, 10:16

QUOTE (Slartibartfast @ Feb 6 2010, 02:07)

Button: "My seat position needs adjusting, I'm too high in the cockpit."
McLaren Mechanic: "Tricky, it'll take some time."
Button: "Why, it's always been a quick fix in all the other teams I've driven for?"
McLaren Mechanic: "We have a different seat-mounting system this year. If you were a bit shorter, like Lewis, there'd be no problem, but as it is..."
Button: "How the **** have you designed a seat-mounting system that can't accommodate me?"
McLaren Mechanic: "The guy who designed it pushed really hard for it to be incorporated in the car. Apparently it brings three points of downforce."

werks prototype

Feb 6 2010, 11:04

QUOTE (Slartibartfast @ Feb 6 2010, 00:07)

Button: "My seat position needs adjusting, I'm too high in the cockpit."
McLaren Mechanic: "Tricky, it'll take some time."
Button: "Why, it's always been a quick fix in all the other teams I've driven for?"
McLaren Mechanic: "We have a different seat-mounting system this year. If you were a bit shorter, like Lewis, there'd be no problem, but as it is..."
Button: "How the **** have you designed a seat-mounting system that can't accommodate me?"
McLaren Mechanic: "The guy who designed it pushed really hard for it to be incorporated in the car. Apparently it brings three points of downforce."

genius

wewantourdarbyback

Feb 6 2010, 15:27

QUOTE (Slartibartfast @ Feb 6 2010, 00:07)

Button: "My seat position needs adjusting, I'm too high in the cockpit."
McLaren Mechanic: "Tricky, it'll take some time."
Button: "Why, it's always been a quick fix in all the other teams I've driven for?"
McLaren Mechanic: "We have a different seat-mounting system this year. If you were a bit shorter, like Lewis, there'd be no problem, but as it is..."
Button: "How the **** have you designed a seat-mounting system that can't accommodate me?"
McLaren Mechanic: "The guy who designed it pushed really hard for it to be incorporated in the car. Apparently it brings three points of downforce."

Hollow

Feb 7 2010, 04:16

Is this the new way to tell a driver he's no. 2?
So he knows it from day 1 and has time to get used to his #2 status.

Well Jensen now knows it. His face has stopped smiling.
Dream's over, I feel no pity for him. Same for Rosberg.

Meanie

Feb 7 2010, 04:37

Could you produce a story or something?
It isn't everyone that is following exactly what you're on about...

teejay

Feb 7 2010, 04:47

Your user name details this thread pretty well.

Hollow

Feb 7 2010, 04:59

QUOTE (teejay @ Feb 7 2010, 05:47)

Your user name details this thread pretty well.

Wow, one without imagination and another launching a personal attack. This forum is great for debating.

Hollow

Feb 7 2010, 05:12

Sorry Meanie for my comment, I thought you knew the story... basically is this:
He didn't have his seat ready. Neither Rosberg.

"Why was Button's 'fit' in the car not handled BEFORE Valencia? Is it against the rules to get the ergonomics fit set up prior to hitting the track? Sounds like Jens is being shoved into #2 status very quickly."

stuckinsecond

Feb 7 2010, 16:23

QUOTE (Hollow @ Feb 7 2010, 13:12)

Sorry Meanie for my comment, I thought you knew the story... basically is this:
He didn't have his seat ready. Neither Rosberg.

"Why was Button's 'fit' in the car not handled BEFORE Valencia? Is it against the rules to get the ergonomics fit set up prior to hitting the track? Sounds like Jens is being shoved into #2 status very quickly."

This sounds like utter BS. Link please to prove it's not utter BS.

mclarensmps

Feb 7 2010, 19:16

QUOTE (Hollow @ Feb 6 2010, 23:59)

Wow, one without imagination and another launching a personal attack. This forum is great for debating.

He was commentating on the thread, rather than on you...

Clatter

Feb 7 2010, 19:39

QUOTE (Orin @ Feb 5 2010, 09:44)

He also said he spent some time learning systems. I think it's bizarre that a morning was wasted doing this stuff.

http://www.mclaren.com/f1season/barcelona-mar09-11.php

Buttoneer

Feb 8 2010, 10:01

QUOTE (stuckinsecond @ Feb 7 2010, 16:23)

This sounds like utter BS. Link please to prove it's not utter BS.

Button spent a lot of the test adjusting to the car and having the car adjusted to him.

Rosberg, on the other hand, seemed comfortable.

dabrasco

Feb 8 2010, 10:12

QUOTE (Buttoneer @ Feb 8 2010, 11:01)

Button spent a lot of the test adjusting to the car and having the car adjusted to him.

Rosberg, on the other hand, seemed comfortable.

Rosberg had seat issues on his first day.... similar to what Jenson had, difference is Rosberg just drove with it anyway....

Jenson is already known for needing very precise parameters b4 he can deliver, so no surprises there

im kinda really tired of reading about this subject though....talk about mountain from a mole hill

Xaus

Feb 8 2010, 10:36

QUOTE (dabrasco @ Feb 8 2010, 05:12)

Rosberg had seat issues on his first day.... similar to what Jenson had, difference is Rosberg just drove with it anyway....

Jenson is already known for needing very precise parameters b4 he can deliver, so no surprises there

im kinda really tired of reading about this subject though....talk about mountain from a mole hill

No ****ing kidding. Two people in two brand new teams with uncomfortable seats because the seat makers aren't used to their dimensions/frame. Seats which have to be molded, custom made, and trimmed to perfectly fit a driver and make sure they're strapped comfortably for 300km.

And you're telling me these new guys in these new teams just might not have found that 'comfort' zone with the seats and thus they're doomed to #2 status or whatever? Man, I'm impressed. People will take the tiniest bit of insignificant crumbs and make it seem a bigger deal than it is to push whatever agenda they have. There's a reason it's called "testing" and not "grand prix weekend".