Somebody should have told Kovalainen.

I'd suggest you chillax, but you'd probably need an app for that.

Do you have any facts to back up this statement (in bold)? Because you remember wrong.

Take a look at the qualifying record. Kovalainen was outperformed in qualifying by Hamilton not just at the middle and end of the season, but also right at the beginning.

You're perfectly entitled to dislike Hamilton, but you're flat wrong on this.

Think again.

Kovalainen qualified ahead in 3 successive racess - Monaco, Turkey and GB - when the car was at its worst.

Hamilton didn't even go through Q1 at those races - because he lacked the grit and determination to fight a bad car. That's when a smoother and more intelligent driver can show his beans.

And guess what? This year will be the same - Jenson's silky minimalist style will pose the advantage!

so.. nothing to do with mechanical issues or crashes then, the above is just dumb trolling, he fought with a bad car for all year but just decided not to in those 3 races, give me a break.

What you say, or even I have to say on the Button-Hamilton outcome, will soon be revealed to all. Come the 1st European race, the order of merit will be established. I just hope when Button is on the receiving end of some beatings, you don't start to act like Kovalainen fans and blame invisible forces, inferior equipment, heavier fuel strategies etc.

In GB, Hamilton had bad luck
with Sutils accident at Q1

Monaco Hamilton made a mistake

and at Turkey they gambled away with the set up

I'll leave the excuses to your fellow Lewis fans - you seem to have plenty in store:



Which is good of course, because you'll need them to explain how Jenson always ended up faster.

Like this?

Hamilton finished ahead of Heikki and set a quicker race lap despite being on a one stop strategy

Always?

Never.

Funny thing is I would tend to agree with you with regards to almost any other driver combination. I don't believe Alonso will 'hammer' Massa or that Schumacher ever 'destroyed' anyone but the thing is, when it comes to Button and Hamilton, I can't get that word 'destroy' out of my mind.

I really think that Hamilton is THAT good and Button THAT bad. If the car is only okay then I wouldn't be surprised to see Button languishing down in 10th in Quali while Hamilton is up in the top 3 or 4. If the car is exceptional then no doubt Button will be right up there because the machinery will hide his lack of talent. I have nothing against Button really, I'm sure he's a fine chap but watching him fumble around the track has really made me see him in a certain way, even in the RoC a couple of years ago, watching him against Schumacher in a FIAT 500 or something was incredible, his lack of raw talent was mesmerizing.

But that's the beauty of sport, I could be wrong and often am, maybe Button will outshine Hamilton and put all us doubters to shame.

Hamilton crashed in Monaco, had a technical problem in Turkey and in GB was denied his run due to a red flag at the end of quali 1. In Turkey and GB he finsihed those races ahead of Heikki. Lacking grit and determination? Not quite, but you know that already.

Best wishes in your attempts to pass yourself off as a Button fan.

Hey Rip Van Winkle, it's 2010. Too bad you missed 2009...

..and don't get me started about "raw talent" again!

Didnt see much fumbling in Brazil also there were numerous races throughout the year where he did the overtakes he needed at the start of the race - v Alonso, Hamilton and Sutil to name three....

Reality is far removed from what you remember.

I'm amused at how you guys have fed this troll incessantly over the last few pages

That's what I was wondering - if he was really not a Jenson supporter, but just an anti-Lewis troll with a newly minted avatar. Either way, someone who cherry picks data to intentionally mislead is missing some moral fortitude.

I'm wishing best to both drivers. Most Button fans have being very civilised with the exception of Timba (who I suspect isn't a Button fan) and I think it will be fair to extend the same courtesy to them. Lets behave as hopefully both our drivers will. Hopefully all talking will be done on the track. If Button is fastest then I will have no regrets cheering him on to be a McLaren wdc and if his is winning then he will be goddamm earning it!

Here's the data:

GP In order, Qualifying winner

Australia Heikki
Malaysia Lewis
Chinese Lewis
Bahrain Lewis
Spain Lewis
Monaco Heikki
Turkish Heikki
British Heikki
Germany Lewis
Hungary Lewis
Europe Lewis
Belgium Lewis
Italy Lewis
Singapore Lewis
Japan Lewis
Brazil Heikki
Abu Dhabi Lewis

So when the car was at its worst (i.e. at the beginning of the season) Lewis outqualified Heikki, and then had a run of 3 bad qualy sessions (which you cherry pick) and mislead by not showing the prior results. Unless of course you now want to make the argument that the car was not at its worst at the beginning but was in fact at its worst six races in, for three races.

So, let's compare this with Rubens and Jenson:

GP In order, Qualifying winner
Australia Jenson
Malaysia Jenson
Chinese Rubens
Bahrain Jenson
Spain Jenson
Monaco Jenson
Turkish Jenson
British Rubens
Germany Rubens
Hungary Jenson
Europe Rubens
Belgium Rubens
Italy Rubens
Singapore Rubens
Japan Rubens
Brazil Rubens
Abu Dhabi Rubens

So Rubens outqualified Jenson 10-7. Lewis outqualified Heikki 12-5.

I disagree. I think that Lewis will have the advantage in quali. Heikki did outqualify Lewis a lot more than the stats would show, because he was almost always given a higher fuel load, but Jenson is a better racer than qualifier, particuarly with the no refueling rule.

Lewis will outqualify Jenson, but Jenson will beat Lewis in the race. The simple reason is that being easy on tyres and fuel will make the race. IMHO, Lewis will do great in low fuel quali, but fall back during the race as he has to stop more often, and take a higher initial fuel load.

Obviously, just my opinion, and I could be wrong, (believe it or not, it wouldn't be the first time ), but I do think Lewis will struggle with tyre and fuel economy.

well........ Lewis might not be as good as Button at it, but to say "struggle" is I think blowing it up to bigger issue then it will be, like other drivers he will adapt and in any case it will mostly depend on how hard the car is on its tyre, but that will also effect qualifying

Yup, personally I can't see any reason why Lewis can't adopt any style he wants, including "smooth". We know he can shred a set of tyres in a few laps or make them last, it was after all Kovy who wasn't able to make his rears last like Lewis. He's also good on the first lap, he can bring the tyres in quickly and then look after them.

Let's not forget it's a juggling act to bring the fronts and rears in at the same time for Q, there'll be similar issues with taking a setup from fumes through 180kg of fuel and back to fumes again. A driver's going to need more than one 'style' to pull that off.

I'd bet if the team said "drive like Jense for a few laps please Lewis" it wouldn't be a problem.

false myth perpetrated by Lewis haters...no actual facts to back it up.... check the Q2 stats on wikipedia, it was around 12-5 last season too for Lewis....

Lewis haters like Martin Witmarsh you mean?

"The reality is that, in every race he's done for us so far, Heikki has done a fantastic job and if you look at fuel-corrected times, he's frequently out-qualified Lewis."

http://www.mclaren.com/f1season/2008/canada/index.php

The trolls won't have the fuel card to play this season, so lets just hold our horses!

compromising one-lap qualifying for consistent lap times in the race is what Ham does, and there's a reason why Kov was under pressure for much of the season

Compromising one-lap qualifying by taking on less fuel????

You clearly don't understand the point. Lewis took on LESS FUEL in order to get ahead in quali. Heikki was made to take on MORE FUEL, yet beat Lewis frequently when FUEL CORRECTED.

That is the reason why Heikki came to Lotus with the first question being "can I have equal treatment?". Gazza couldn't understand the question, but I am sure that Prost, DC, Monty, Alonso, and Kovi did.

Whitmarsh saying it back in Canada 08 doesnt make it true end of 09.... I've had a close look at the stats of both of them q1, q2, q3.... yea at that point, if i remember... Heikki might have been shading the q2 stats, its well known Lewis had a shaky start to his 08 season...but later in the season Lewis was handling him q1 q2 q3....and won overall...
last season, Lewis simply blew Heikki away, especially once the car was upgraded... the stats are there to see, q1, q2.... but dont let those facts and reality get in the way, hold on to some 2 year old quote that was made after 7 races with both of them, disregarding the other 28 races they had together and sea of knowledge and facts we have being able to garner since.

typical cherry-picking

Back on topic please. Jenson v Lewis not Lewis v Heikki. And a few personal attacks have been cleaned out so no more of those either. If you're going to start referring to anyone who disagrees with you as a troll then it's never going to end well so no 'general' attacks like that either.

Most importantly, use the REPORT button to ensure the moderators can deal with any post or poster who breaks the house rules.

It's hard to say what value Q1 and Q2 head-to-head really means, since the goal is to simply advance and there's not much of a reason to push if you're comfortable in. But just to look at one pairing, here's Jenson and Rubens in 2009

Q1 - JB 12, RB 5

Pretty surprising considering Button isn't known as a low fuel guy. But then the tables turned a bit...

Q2 - RB 10.5, JB 6.5 (they had one race with identical Q2 times to the thousandth)

Not sure what to glean from this data. Perhaps Rubens was better at making adjustments for Q2. Maybe Button was better on the harder tyres more often used in Q1. Who knows? And even Q3 these past few years isn't a great indicator of qualifying speed because fuel correcting doesn't necessarily mean a driver could have done that time (balance at different weights and so on).

Having low fuel qualifying in Q3 will finally give us good data about how well these guys qualify.

And for the record, as much as I like this qualifying system, my favorite was the single lap one-at-a-time system used in 2004 or so. I liked seeing the whole lap for each driver and the pressure of only getting one shot at it. The current system gives the top cars too many chances to lock up the top spots, in my opinion.

This is often said, but actually it's not true.

In the 'old days', drivers used to have a setup for quali and a different setup for the race. So quali was a very good indication of a driver's ultimate pace over one lap, everyone was going for the best quali setup they could find - if it destroyed the tyres inside a couple of laps, that was not a problem.

This year, it's my understanding that drivers will not be able to change their setup between quali and the race.

So everyone will be running a compromise setup, one which will allow their tyres to perform well in the race, but also get them as far up the grid as possible.

Some drivers will think it's most important to be on the front row, even if they may struggle in the race, others will think they need a good race setup, and hope that the cars in front of them will pit early and they can get by with less tyre stops. If the rules are tinkered with further, that will again change the calculation that drivers (and their engineers) will have to make.

My point is that we have not returned to the days when you could tell a driver's ultimate pace from his quali performance.

Who is going to do the shakedown of the '25. PDLR went to Sauber and this is now up in the air

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81047





Its a tiny little point.. but so is which of merc's drivers gets #3 (and that didnt stop pages of comment)

.... will Macca bottle the decision and give the job to Paffett (instead of LH, who in my mind is the obvious choice) in the name of equality??

yes

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81049

in their defence, the new reserve driver should have some experience being a 'reserve' driver.

Quite true.... over the last year the only official time he has had in the car was the December 1-3 tests. As opposed to the only other driver still with the team. LH, to have had any significant time in the car last year. 9 days for LH v 3 days for PDLR v 9 days for HK v 2 days for PF. I know who I would prefer to do it.

...Anyway its just a shake down.

Well that launch was a nice little love in... lots of deferring to JB by LH.

Is he just a nice lad or does he have so little fear of being beaten by JB that there isnt even a hint of tension between them?

Apart from tyre pressures they can't make adjustments during Q. As soon as Q starts the cars are under Parc Ferme conditions.

Well I disagree with your verdict. ,Lewis was playing 2nd fiddle to a much more relaxed and at ease with the media - Button and Lewis seemed a bit uncomfortable with it to me.

Jenson was the no1 driver in evert respect at the alunch ..but the driving comes next

These ceremonies are naturally awkward and unconfortable, especially when everyone is in nice suits and you have to wear racing leathers. I know I'd feel goofy.

Lewis looked a little bit lost
beside the untwisted Button
but both were very nervous

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/01/mcla...etitive-season/

I dont see this Lewis nervous business, he was even defending Button, praising Button and all... they both seemed fairly comfortable.

Wiping his right hand on his race suit about 4 times was a bit of a give away.

...anyway they are drivers not PR spokespeople.

The first thing Lewis said was how much he was a part of the team and how he personally helped bring the car performance forward, I don't think he likes sharing the spotlight with a fellow Brit, whereas Jenson felt much more relaxed and carefree IMO.

Yes thought the car development comment right at the start was telling. As to JA's piece its a rosy interpretation - which judging by the comments many dont agree with.

I havent noticed Hamilton nervous before and it seems a bit strange given his strong position at the team but really got the impression he was deferring slightly to Button. Maybe just good manners to the current WDC as I cant really believe Hami is that worried about jensons on track performance.

Perhaps Button will lead the team outside of the car and lewis will do the honours on track

I much prefer Button to underestimated on the forums. I think some surprises are in store. For sure.

I heard many a fighter talk a good fight before facing Iron Mike Tyson, only to get battered and knocked out cold within 3 rounds. The only surprise will be Button still having confidence come the first European race in Barcelona. If he is not 3-1 down by then, I'll be shocked.

Sounds about right. Button does seem very good with the media, but I think Hamilton will prove better in the cockpit - I'm very impressed with Hamilton claiming input to this car, obviously he feels proud of his contribution. Can't wait for these two to go head-to-head.

Jenson does seem more at ease in front of the media compared to Lewis, but considering he has been around a lot longer, this should be expected really.

Yeah I think Jenson's extra 5 years makes quite a difference. I like the way the team have really given Jense a big welcome though, and a platform to compete on an equal basis, he seems really at home already. Maybe that's been slightly at Lewis' expense, temporarily, and unsettled him.

But I think the "team Lewis" excuse is going to look pretty thin when the action starts, anyway.