A case in point.
Check the poster's previous posts.
Decide which Spanish driver he's a fan of.
Speculate as to his intentions.
Post your thoughts here.

fabr68 is not a Button fan though.

I hope Lewis is reading this forum then.

By China.

Button 2 wins to Hamilton's ZERO, eleven points ahead

(Genuine answer.)

I don't see the relevance of who these posters support - my point is that Hamilton "fanboys" get most of the stick but posters like this don't get the same criticism.

Button fans + Bitter Alonso, Kimi, Vettel and Webber fans = majority

We dont expect to see them here when Button starts losing and getting frustrated. It would be fun reading the old

Lewis being favoured excuses once again, after 3 years of this I missed them

I've just read throught the last 5 pages of this discussion, and I have to say, it' been a load of boll^w rubbish.

McLaren have two incredibly talented drivers - they have different styles, but it doesn't alter that they are both incredibly talented.

Not only that, but they respect/like each other. At the end of today's race, Lewis was waiting for Jenson, banged on his helmet and hugged him. Jenson got out, went to kiss his girlfriend, then hugged Hamilton nearly to death. After they got their helmets off, and you could see their faces, it was clear that they were both elated by the result - happy for each other and the team.

Why the fishhooks and little furry fairies should we argue - they're clearly having a blast, having fun, and entertaining us - let's just enjoy it, and long may it continue.

All the best.

Touché (genuinely).

I surely agree fans of Jenson are right to let others remember what they wrote before the season. Which, IMO, was way worse then whatever is written about Hamilton by now.
Nobody is writing off Lewis though. There are still 750 points to give away. A lead of 10 points doesn't mean anything.

But Jenson is up there. People don't think better of Kovalainen, Jenson isn't playing career suicide, he isn't considering early retirement, and Hamilton isn't obliterating him. (just a couple of grabs from page 1.)
In fact, Jenson managed to convince a lot of people that his WDC of last year wasn't all that 'unworthy' as some were claiming.

They are naughty boys looking for attention. Probably because they weren't breast-fed.

Will that do?

Please stop discussing each other. It's Jenson v Lewis not 'fanboy' v 'hater'.

No not destroying him, out thinking him.

Lewis IS the faster driver but its just not happening for him at the moment.

The difference right now is in the strategy calls, Jenson and (one assumes) his race engineer are getting them bang on, Lewis and his engineer are getting them rather wrong.

Its easy to forget Lewis is still very young and inexperienced in relative terms to Jenson and the majority of the F1 field, and this is Andy Latham's first full race engineer position (I believe) I suspect in the last couple of years Lewis has relied very heavily on Ron, Phil Prew, his father and the team, all vastly experienced, to get the decisions right.

That's all gone now, he either needs to trust in his own decisions, or get McLaren to replace Andy for an older wiser head.

As for McLaren, they are paying £15M so its in their interests to get it right to.

I agree with that 100%,they should have left everything the way it was,As you see in other team the driver compete against each other,but not at mclaren.Lewis had a great engineer in phil phew,but now he is with jenson.

Hamilton had a degree of composure in 2007 (up until the last two races) that he has not consistently shown since. He barely made any mistakes up until then (I can't remember any). Something must have changed. He was very sheltered from the media back then, too. Maybe Ron's influence is being missed as you suggest.

I think lewis/team need to stop giving themselves mission impossible so much...

Buttons driven the races well, if by luck or judgement, its worked out. but lewis has been more impressive, and vastly more entertaining, its like his stratagy is done by bernie xD

His composure in 2009 was exceptional once he had resigned himself to having a crap car. He made most of last years races exciting too.

Since when?
Isn't he Chief Race Engineer?

Hamilton has finished ahead of Button 2 out of 4 times, those 2 times were in dry conditions, and he has always set a faster race lap than Button. Surely if Button was the "Tyre Saving Master" as people say, wouldn't he be the one setting the faster race laps? Example being Bahrain and Malaysia, both hot races

Maybe part of his problem is that he is making the races exciting! Although this is why he is such good box office, and it is great to have him in F1.

Regarding 2009, I was thinking of the Italian GP, for example, and his late race crash. That was unnecessary and basically down to overexuberance. If he does that kind of thing this year Button will be steadily piling up the points to beat him.

He's not the 'Tyre Saving Master', no idea who says that. And no, in Bahrain he never had clear air infront on low fuel, and in Sepang he pitted for tyres way too early to be fast at the end of the race. You know that, yet you act surprised that he didn't set the faster race laps. What's your point with it?

Maybe he missed the memo about awarding points for Fastest Laps.

What confuses me about all of this is; talking down another driver just belittles your own driver's achievements. If he's simply beating non-entity drivers then..., well that doesn't make for much of a 'legacy' for one's favourite, does it. This is sad, really. What people are missing, with their devotional blinkers on, is that this is an era that might be looked back upon as a classic. Remember when there was Piquet, Mansell, Prost, Senna and Rosberg...? Well, now we have Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Vettel, Massa et al... just sit back and enjoy this group of talented racers really having a go..., all of them in competitive cars.

Even if it were true that he is the 'tyre saving master' (and evidence suggests that's just not true), surely you realise that tyre saving and fastest laps don't really go hand in hand?

Lucky lucky LAZY GAMBLING Button...

The Bible instructs us against such things as gambling.

Here is a nice excerpt from a website:



Don't worry Hamilton fans, what Jenson and his followers are advocating is not right. They will account for this Gambling and imaginary, made up, fairytale speed and race-craft in the end and they will have nothing to show for it. Only true speed and hard work wins championships of this nature.

Well, that would probably mean that at the end of the race when tanks are empty he would be able to get most of it, unlike Lewis who (as some think) can't manage his tyres and gets most of them in first few laps of stint.

But its all bollocks since its been shown that they both know how to manage their tyres.

So, to summarize what I learned on those last pages:

- races must be held in constant weather conditions throughout
- all types of tyres must be capable of surviving the whole race (so as not for some nerds with a better strategic head gaining an unfair advantage)
- McLaren must make sure that their car doesn't inexplicably change between Q2 and Q3
- dodgy driving must no longer result in penalties but only warnings and reprimands (okay, that's already checked)

And then, finally, if all those conditions are met, we'll finally see the truth Hamilton teaching Button how to drive a F1 car

Can't wait...

Let me remind you - Button is just 11 points in front of Hamilton in spite of having two gamble calls play out in his favor. They are 2-2 in races with Button winning both times in changeable conditions. There won't be 50% races with changeable conditions throughout the season and as Button himself said - he won't get it right every time. Hamilton shows better pace so far, and in long term its the race pace that usually wins.

My prediction is still 60-40 in Hamilton's favor, with most likely option that difference between those two will be less than one victory (25 points) in the end of season. Its incredible to me how Hamilton fans, Button fans, and never avoidable Hamilton haters usually speak in definite terms like they know how the things are gonna play out.

This is all hysterically funny - except.......

One thing you learn from watching every F1 race since 1983, is: choose the right tyre FOR THE CURRENT CONDITIONS

Button didn't gamble at all really. Nor did the others that chose to stay out. They were on the right tyre for the conditions at the time. If anything everyone that pitted was gambling. They knew that pitting during the safety car was in effect a 'free' pitstop. If they had to pit after the safety car went in, they'd be at a massive disadvantage. So they chose to go onto inters when the track wasn't ready for it - something that you can't really argue as two laps later they started coming back in because they'd ruined their tyres. They gambled and failed.

Button et al chose the only sensible route.

Fair enough. Mind you, I'm thinking along the same lines, I'm expecting Hamilton to be in front in the WDC standings at the end of the year. Still have to admit I love the current histeric reactions in certain circles (yep, I'm probably a bad person ).



Yeah, changeable conditions. From the start of his career until about four races ago, I remember Hamilton being branded as especially excellent in those, his fans praying for rain and so on. Hmm, I wonder what's changed...

So he didn't end up in 2º and the fastest lap wasn't his i suppose...
Oh and he wasn't the one with the most overtakes...
Right...

In the wet, Lewis was the fastest guy out there. Even RainMeisters Vettel and MS were no match for him.

edit: And how easily did Lewis overtake Jenson in Melbourne starting from 11th place

In fairness to Button......

...you can't rack up lot's of overtakes IF YOU ARE IN FRONT!!!!

Hamilton HAD to set fastest lap and over take lots to get to second.

Button didn't.

End of.

Oh, I'm sure Button would be more than happy to leave Hamilton with those two coveted trophys, "fastest laps" and "most overtakes" along the way to defend his own WDC title.

The question that you avoided to answer is, was he good or not under this conditions?

Yeah dodge what was implied with my answer...

Erm. I can't believe I even have to say this.....but i will say it very slowly so you understand.....

HE

WON

THE

RACE!!!!!

Does that answer your question?

But who won the race?

I'm kind of getting sick with this back and forth bickering because all the matters in the end are results and so far Button is BEATING Hamilton! Would that be the case at the end of the season? We just have to wait and see.

I have been watching all the races very closely,looking at the pictures on sutton-images,even on the starting grid he is always with button.So from that conclusion,he is jenson chief race engineer.

That's covered under point one of my above list: "same weather conditions throughout". FIA has to make sure it rains the whole race, preferably by the exact same amount. Shame that didn't happen yet, eh?



And how futile that turned out in the end...

I will say it slowly to you

I
WAS
TALKING
ABOUT
HAMILTON

Did you get it now?

Jenson is not the "tyre saving master" for god sake, who even says that? stop making stuff up from 1 or 2 silly posts from here and there to try and make a semi decent argument. What Jenson has been though is better at strategy calls.

God, no wonder Button gets the superior strategies. Prew is supposed to manage the 2 race engineers. I think Hamilton is being remarkably calm about this bias - I suppose he doesn't really have much choice.

Jakob Andreasen is button's engineer, worked as assistant race engineer on Lewis’s car until recently...
Philip Prew is now Principal Race Engineer, he was Lewis's engineer until last season...

i think lewis might need a boring race to beat button
there both making the most of what they end up with on sundays, they just seem to have entirely different races

You're actually asking that?

Tyre gambles do nothing for me. It's not like any drivers knows exactly what the weather will do and when.

No, it has nothing to do with the race, but I don't have to like it when Button wins
nor to praise Button
I never said anything bad against Button, but I won't sing a chorous of praise for him
He won the race this is a fact, I'm afraid so.

It's realy not easy to accept for some of us Lewis fans. (and yes I'am a McLaren supporter, too.)
For me the "good old McLaren" days where with Ron Dennis (Senna, Lauda, Hakkinen) for such a long time
and Lewis was his boy, his projcet, Lewis is McLaren
Now they are all gone, Lewis is still there
2007 was great, but the loss of the championship hurt.
2008 the Spy gate was really hard to take, (ok Lewis WDC was great. )
2009 was terrible. To see the team and Lewis struggle ,hurt (not to forget about liegate, ouuch!)
Lewis and McLaren fans suffered a lot.
They worked so hard to change around the season and to improove the cr*p Silverdonkey
Lewis batteled with this car and made some amazing things with this donkey car and worked so hard,
while Jenson had some easy wins in a superior car.
At the end of the season, at Abu Dhabi should have heen a masterfully win for Lewis , but a mechanical failure unfortunately stopped him
So, we all looked foreward to the 2010 season and put our hopes in it

Now it seems, all their hard work and efforts in the 2009 season, to learn from the mistakes and do develop a much better car, have paid off.
(The ghost of the siver donkey is still walking around in the back of some heads )

Then Jenson Button appeared on the scene.
From the first monent he asked , if this is Lewis teams
the equality calls became aloud
MW moved everything around, changed teams ,
reshuffled engineers, etc. (and it had some effects on Lewis)
It looked like, it was the major priority for McLaren to make everything comfortable for Jenson, even for the harm of Lewis
Lewis seemed to have disappeared
Jenson walked noisily in ,and it looks like he has owned everything at McLaren

And now Jenson reaps the reward of last seasons hard work , so easily
He gets the glory and the meed
This is hard to take for Lewis fans, because he should have been the one to stand in the light and earn the laurles
Of course, it's not Jensons fault
but for me he is the "wrong driver" who deserves to take the first wins for McLaren, after all
2009 was tough, but 2010 looks like, to get even tougher for me.

McLaren is now a different team (Jensons team) - the new McLaren under the lead of Martin Whitmarsh.
Maybe it's time to move on, and forget about the past.
I only wrote this, to show, why some Lewis fans have difficulties with Jensons succsess at McLaren
(It looks like a "fraud" to Lewis
and because, Jenson is not my "cup of tea" ;) )

why are you making excuses for Sepang, we all know that the harder tyre was very durable, Hamilton's pace was proof of that in the race

Button got shown the way in Malay as far as tyres go


naturally you push when you want to make up places, even then Button's pace was inferior


Alonso in Bahrain disproves that?

have you studied the race results do you realise that over the 4 races they both average a finishing position of 4.25?
In points yes Jenson is ahead and congrats to him however that points lead is not down to better driving but better pit calls.
IMHO i hope both drivers learn a bit of each others strong points because if lewis learns some of Jenson's tactics and Jenson learns some of lewis's overtaking ability we as supporters of both drivers ( and by a big IMHO) also supporters of McLaren are in for a number of great years perhaps even able to rival the late 90's and early 00's of Ferrari.

Perhaps you should take a leaf out of lewis's book and remember who was the first to congratulate jenson

That wasn't your point, and you're now back tracking when it was pointed out that both driver's said their tyres were 'gone'/'finished'.