Whitmarsh; "We feel confident that, as an organisation, we'll be able to manage the demands and expectations of our drivers."

Jonathan Neale: In the past, Jenson has demonstrated considerable talent at high-speed circuits, and we're looking forward to building that into our arsenal.

Ts, ts...

"McLaren plans aggressive approach"


There's a familiar tone in this sentence - and simultaneously there's a nagging feeling inside me that keeps telling me that from McLaren's POV it will probably end in tears...

Oh well, at least Newey is not on board anymore so maybe they could actually have a chance to avoid going haywire and producing another MP4-18.

well redbull are going the opposite route they are designing a car around vettel (who has similar style to mark) so i expect vettel to be up there. but i think the mclaren drivers have the edge over seb as we yet to see seb race craft skills dicing wheel to wheel and doing overtaking moves

You bet it's familiar, they always sound the same at this time of the year, it doesn't mean a thing, good or bad. Only when the car hits the track we'll see what it can do or not.

Not that much different to other teams, only that McLaren have a habit of always being a bit on the noisy side about their next car

Is this something they have stated?

Ferrari have been making more noise about their 2010 car..

This thread is drifting off topic again. Please stay on the topic of Jenson vs Lewis.

its drifting...

anyway i think we can assume that the car will be at the sharp end. I have a funny feeling this will be like 2007 season (without the alonso incidents etc)
4 way fight

Well, there is a precedent for this.

The last time that Jenson joined a team that was built around a driver, who was a WDC, (who lost in the last race in first season, won in his second and came 5th in his third), he beat him.

Good point. JB > JV.

This will give us a great reference for the LH=JV idea.

As well as the triathlete vs non-triathlete contest.

It will indeed give the reference for LH=JV idea.

The triathlete vs non triathlete will only be told when Lewis has the balls to take Jenson on.

The question came from Lewis who claimed to be the fittest.

If Lewis goes up against Jenson in a triathlon, (as Jenson is doing to Lewis in his back yard), that score will be settled.

Won't happen though. Anthony won't do anything to harm Lewis tm.

Can't wait for the new season! at the end of the season they cannot say they favoured a British driver, can't they. Lewis will be camp again and now he will get it right with a single number 2 on his car!

Hey let's start off with the Suzuki Liana on Top Gear, Lewis beat a very hard trying Jenson whilst singing away to himself on a soaking wet and oily track LOL Actually that was meant as a joke but its interesting to see how relaxed Lewis is behind the wheel of anything. Thinking back to the proper racing Jenson doesn't half get stressed out compared to Lewis judging by the radio traffic.

Actually I don't think its even worth bothering to compare, Hamilton will be a good chunk faster than Jenson for all the time they're team mates and I expect Jenson to leave McLaren blaming the team for favouring Lewis(saving face)

The new radical concept of Maca will help Jenson as they both start from the same new baseline, instead of a development of the 2009 model.

However, Le Lew knows better the ways to devepop the car, within the Maca organization.

According to Paddy, the Maca is born to be neutral in handling, I hope the Mclaren crew is neutral too.

I'm not sure - IIRC they have sometimes said that the new car is more an evolution than a revolution or something along the lines of that, so they actually do have shades of grey. After a couple of decades of following them closely, for some reason there's a warning light flashing inside my head after this speech:



With certainty we can also say that if Lewis and Jenson are to be be first time introduced with a true McLaren grenade, it's interesting to see how they react. I think it would be a good thing for Jenson, he is used to bad cars and if McLaren is out of title challenges from the beginning, his introductory season with regards to Lewis is going to be easier from Jenson's point of view - worst thing for a driver would be a teammate being a contender for WDC title while you are yourself struggling to get grips with the car and the team.

well, this is my first post on this forum, but I must say . .

Jenson has just committed career suicide by joining mclaren . . I said the same thing 2 years ago about Heikki

poor bugger - I wish him all the best though

One thing to consider is how sensitive Jenson is to car set up. In the latter of half of this year he often struggled in Q2 saying the car had suddenly developed massive oversteer or understeer relative to Q1. Carrying a fuel load to last the entire race distance and still having to run both option and prime tyre on a track that is constantly evolving means a car that is always changing.

It may well be his smooth style will work but not if he can't adapt to changing conditions.

He showed consistent race pace throughout the season, so changing conditions isn't an issue.

Hello
Enjoy this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6W9HS6PEHg

he has more experience with bad cars, but he's very average in them. Definitely not a good thing for Button.

well i think JB is a little more intelligent race driving in terms of figuring out gaps to people/race strategy as well. How many times we heard lewis say "why dnt we pit now i can get ahead of xyz" and his engineer says "lewis please concentrate on driving and let us figure out the strategy, you cnt jump xyz they on different strategies/it will not work for us"

i think jenson is better at reading a race and figuring out how the race is developing.

Wow, all the numbers match so it must be true....

but why does Jenson always sound so weird on the radio though....he always sounds shrill and like he is shouting over noise

maybe it the quality of his brawn car radio or something else?

Er none. I have never heard Lewis ask that over the radio.

I've heard Lewis ask if he's saved enough fuel to jump X, or whether it's an option to save fuel till X pits after the race was mixed up by a safety car. I remember the response being something like "negative, the strategy we're currently on is still calculated to be the best". I can't remember when it was.

"How many times have we heard Lewis say"

Once, for me, and not in the way that YOUR mind has recalled it for you.

Similar discussions have gone on between Jenson and his race engineer that just weren't broadcast when he jumped Rubens' in the "blah blah blah" race.


It's a good thing that a driver is thinking and bouncing ideas off his engineers. If Alonso did this, maybe Singapore wouldn't have happened.

i remember reading from Bar-honda website from Shovlin, that JB actually doesn't like talking much as he reads the race and asks specific info that he doesn't have a view of. Otherwise he is VERY calm behind the wheel. Obviously it changed in 2009 as we did hear some rather shouting on the radio like "HOW CAN THIS CAR BE SOOO BAD"" lolz

I think you are basing too much on the very little radio we are allowed to listen to.

Personally, I think that Jenson Button will have too much to deal with when he goes head to head with Lewis Hamilton. Even thought JB's title was more convincing there are alot of factors which people have failed to realise. Doing a head to head comparison of LH's 08 compared to JB's 09 yields some interesting results.

LH=Lewis Hamilton 2008, JB=Jenson Button 2009

Total points: LH = 98; JB = 95
Points Per Race: LH = 5.45; JB = 5.59
Ch'ship Margin of Victory: LH = 1pt ; JB = 11 pts
Wins: LH = 5; JB = 6

No. of World Champs in Top 5 End Of Season: LH = 2 (Kimi, Fernando); JB = 1 (Lewis)

Teammate's Points Total: LH = 53 ; JB = 77
Teammate's Position: LH = 7th ; JB = 3rd
Team 1-2s: LH = 0; JB = 4

Main team opposition: LH = Ferrari (15 x WDC, 16 x WCC); JB = Red Bull (0 x WDC, 0 x WCC)

Number of points in non WC year: LH = 49 (2009); JB = 3 (2008)
Position in non WC year: LH = 5th; JB = 18th

Career

Wins: LH = 11; JB = 7
Podiums: LH = 27; JB = 24
Races: LH = 52; JB = 170

Best 10 race streak: LH = 4 wins from 10 (40%) (2008); JB = 6 wins from 10 (60%) (2009)
Rest of career minus streak: LH = 7 wins from 42 (16%); JB = 1 win from 160 (0.00625%)

Best finishing position in non WDC year: LH = 2nd (109 pts) (2007); JB = 3rd (85 pts) (2004)

He did show good race pace relative to qualifying pace, but you missed my point completely.

At Brazil this year Lewis ran with a huge fuel load and hustled the car to a top three finish. I think Jenson is great but I am still to be convinced he can carry a changeable or bad set up as well as Lewis.

No point comparing because they were driving different cars and LH didn't have to contend with a dominating Ferrari with Michael Schumacher at the wheel.

I'm not about to claim here that Lewis will be trounced by Jenson because I think overall it is likely to be the other way around, just. But those numbers, though interesting, mean absolutely nothing. At all.

Button wants Hamilton challenge - Brawn

Linky

This "Fresh challenge" "Take on Hamilton" spin is getting a bit out of hand

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...204095211.shtml

Even Ross is pedalling 'Jensons Challenge'. He thinks Jenson is "Brave" for taking on Lewis. Team boss speak for he thinks he may well get spanked.

Well it's too tempting not to speculate about it. I'm not a great Jenson fan but I'm quite nervous for him, I can see him following in Kovy's footsteps, though at least he does have a lot more experience. And I think McLaren/Mark Slade will do a much better job for him on setup than Brawn. But Hammy's setups won't be any use to him.

It's interesting that Ross Brawn says that Jenson went to McLaren because he wanted to measure up against Hamilton in the same car (and we should add: in "Hamilton's team"). If that's Jenson motivation it's really brave. Maybe Jenson feels that despite of the title, his reputation is still not what he'd like it to be, he is still not rated among the very best of the field, he is kind of considered a "lucky WDC". Also Hamilton is still Britain's darling rather than Jenson.

But of course, should he beat Hammy in the same car everything would change. He would suddenly be rated up there with Alonso and Hamilton. So I can see why he did this. He maybe said to himself: "Let's make it or break it. Either it will prove Lewis is really better and then he deserves to be hyped as Britain's Nr 1 and I will accept that, or it will prove I'm Britain's real Nr 1."

It will be an interesting fight.

He has nothing to lose does he, people would have always questioned his talent if he hadn't made the move so either way his reputation can only improve.

It's nice to see Brawn's measured comments about the move though, Nick Fry could learn a lot from him instead of spouting hate like a jilted girlfriend when Jenson moved.

James Allen reckons that Jenson's move to McLaren was based on the fact that he (Jenson) believes that McLaren will have the better car.

I think Button explains it quite conclusively in the interview. It's just that we're not used to that kind of thinking, most drivers seem out to protect their reputation by all means, not put it on the line like that.

Up to now it's all just words, but so far I can't help being impressed by Buttons attitude.

That's not quite true, if he had avoided the supposed big guns for the rest of his career, we would forever left speculating "what if?" like in most other cases. People (some) always question everyones talent, that doesn't mean a thing. But in this case, should Button really fall into a Kova-like role, there won't be much left to argue in his favour.

but if you watch his interviews, he sounds like he knows nothing about McLaren's competitiveness next season and he actually sounds more sure that Brawn will be strong.

His move to McLaren would still be regarded as "brave" even if he's not saying out loud in every interview about the "challenge". The more I hear about the "challenge", the more I suspect it's something else.

Well what then ?

McLaren have a wider range of biscuits on offer ?

All parties have said it isn't about money, if it's not about money it's about the challenge of going up against a fellow champion in his own team

Jenson obviously feels people think he's ''unworthy'', which is a shame

He must of wondered wtf, i won 6 races (more than Lewis and Kimi in their respective campaigns i might add) and scored points in every race bar one (which he was punted out of), and people still try to put him down

What can he do to prove he's a ''worthy'' champion ?

By going up against who many perceive to be the best, in his own environment and beating him

IMO this is to be commended, he's gone out of his comfort zone, he's got a chance to be great and i hope he grabs the opportunity

I feel the same, my guess is Merc offered a 1 year contact, McLaren offered a 3 year contract.

Indeed. An other 3 years in a top team. Over the next 3 years, Mclaren will be the better car imo. 2009 was just a bad season for Ferrari and Mclaren. It's a smart move of Jenson.

It is the smart move, a no brainer. But I also think it's the only drive that DOES offer a challenge to Jenson.

I define challenge as being something acheivable. Where the only question is of yourself, and not the team of which you have no control over.
Being stuck in a team fighting at the back, or even nipping at the heels of the front runners isn't a challenge. Fighting for a WDC is a car that can actually GET you a WDC is a challenge.

Who WOULDN'T accept a multi-year contract at McLaren/Ferrari if given half a chance?

It's the obvious smart move, and it's the challenge. I don't see them as being opposite in this scenario because I think Ferrari & McLaren will rise to the top once more.

tl;dr challenge != how likely something is to happen, if the variables that decide are outside of your will

Agreed. Mercedes didn't seem eager to snap him up, I guess McLaren would have sounded a lot more eager. Whether he beats Lewis (unlikely) or loses to him, he can have a good career at McLaren. I'm sure he'll be streets ahead of Kovalainen.

Watching people already choke at Buttons reasons to go head-to-head with Hamilton, I suspect it won't be all rosy in the british part of our forum garden next year...

Well as a British citizen, I'm going to LOVE watching a British team with 2x British World Champions on the British Broadcasting Corporation.

I don't hear any choking, the Brits I've talked to think it's great, no-one expects a huge amount of friction within the team. So, if you're hoping for something to distract us from the Massa/Alonso soap opera, dream on.