sorry when you talk about designing a car for one driver over another you are talking of favouring however i will concede with only one signed driver it is rather hard to design it for the other non-existent driver.
If i manage to find the article i will post a link as from memory McLaren stated it was far better to ensure the basic design is sound first and tailored to a driver second after all they want both drivers to score maximum points.
Dont forget you never know what will happen throughout a season, and any team which decides to put all their eggs in one basket by making a car that only one of their drivers can get the most out is asking for trouble. After all what will Ferrari do if they find second race in next season that teflonso is sidelined by an accident and that no one else can get the maximum out of the car....
But who is to say it even needs an accident just a number of unforced errors could be enough to find that their favoured driver could be out of the hunt and with the other driver unable to perform due to a badly designed car ( as far as their needs are concerned) it could mean no chance of anything for the season, and all because it was made for one driver.

IMO
One thing is clear no matter what you claim the characteristics of the McLaren have not been anything like the type of car Lewis excels in, so it makes it a very very unlikely thing to claim it was tailored to his liking and driving style. Infact i would say the way it was performing was much more in line with a neutral designed car which unfortunately has ended up to failing to exploit either drivers skills to the full.

But i still think Jenson has been the best team mate for Lewis so far, Alonso would have been better but as we all have seen he only likes it when his team mate is not allowed to race him.

Yes I remember those sentences. It actually went from 'You've built me a monster of a car' to 'How can this car be so bad all of u sudden', in a week or 8. You're not going to tell me that in a matter of 8 weeks Button destroyed the development and thereby the competitiveness of the car? Seems too far fetched too me.

F1 changes every year... the cars change every race... adapt or move on.

Heidfeld has moved on... coincidence?

If JB has more than, say, two weekends like this one next year he will not get a third year... the myth that LH cannot co-exist with a top class team mate has been shattered (....yet another of the myths we have been fed over the years) and other good drivers will now be prepared to take the second seat at Macca instead of viewing it as "going into the lion's den".

they can do it in 2 hours incase you forget how much setup changes the way the car handles let alone upto 8 weeks.
All it takes is Jenson going in the wrong direction with 1 set up and then compounding it in the following weeks.

No coincidence at all, as he again performed strong the following year. Sure, some drivers are easier affected, but that does not make them 'not good enough'. What bullshit.


Right, Hamilton fans and their poor 'myths'. Personally never cared about them. Most were ridiculous anyway so why take them serious.

All it takes is one retarded driver with a deaf and a blind guy as race engineers, and a team of monkey's as data analysts, yes you're right.

The fans or the myths.... youre not a happy bunny since this weekend, are you?

If JB has more than, say, two weekends like this one next year he will not get a third year... the myth that LH cannot co-exist with a top class team mate has been shattered (....yet another of the myths we have been fed over the years) and other good drivers will now be prepared to take the second seat at Macca instead of viewing it as "going into the lion's den".

Drivers go wrong on setup and "go down the wrong path" all the time and are usually accompanied by their engineers. Like in any complex environment (e.g. IT which is the sector I work in) there are many potential solutions to a problem and choosing the best one can be a bit of an arcane art based on experience as much as pure knowledge. At Korea, with the track evolving all the time through the weekend, finding the best setup was always going to be difficult and it looks like JB chose something that helped kill his tyres in wet conditions. Yes, he stuffed up his weekend, but they're allowed the odd poor performance in a season of 19 races.

Oh, and the MP4-25 is not a 'crap car' IMO as some have said in defence of one driver or the other. It's third best at the worst, and that's far from crap. I still think, however, that Hamilton did a fine job to hang on and ride his luck to take 2nd in a car that probably would have got 4th at best in a dry race with RBR finishing it.

.... Silverstone and the blown diffuser update was a real eye opener into Button.

Was it genuinely an improvement as the data suggested, but Button declined it because of the inconsistent grip characteristics, when off throttle? Apparently so, with Hamilton prepared to drive the car and Button not happy. Even with a overheating floor, Hamilton wanted to drive it. Maybe the real problem is not the updates, but the characteristics Buttons demands in a car? Food for thought.

Lol. Thankfully for everyone I'm talking about the myths. I just don't get why it's getting brought up here so often.

Well it'll depend on their mindset it seems to me. Yes JB's had totally fair treatment, but Lewis has trashed him on performance. The points tally hides a consistent couple of tenths plus better racecraft. Add that to Fernando's and Heikki's experience and who'll want to be next?

Heikki doing OK at Lotus and Fernando is a superstar again, with no Lewis Hamilton to put them down. Jense a wdc with a good reputation and now fending off humiliation.

No-one who seriously hopes ever to be wdc will partner Lewis I would say, unless they're very young, and Mac won't be looking at very young.

Lol. Thankfully for everyone I'm talking about the myths. I just don't get why it's getting brought up here so often.

My current line of thinking is that McLaren have fallen over themselves to "accommodate" Button to the detriment of effective development, which has had the knock on effect of thwarting Hamilton's championship chances. ..blah blah blah.... while Hamilton blithely just gets on with it.

What??? Improvement ???

Did you actually watch Silverstone FP1 & 2 ???

It was a total, utter farce. I stopped counting after the 7th time Lewis flew off the circuit, the last time he did it he smashed up the the complete underbody that it cut the session short. Jenson only flew off about 4 times. It was from my observation totally undrivable, and dont forget they got 2nd & 4th with the old setup.

Don't you think there would have been a more "effective development" if Lewis had not smashed up the car at critical events in free practice leaving Jenson to do all the work?

It is equally fatuous to say;

Don't you think there would have been a more "effective development" if Jenson had not set fire to the car at critical events in free practice leaving Lewis to do all the work?

Not quite sure what you mean there. Hamilton has been copying Buttons setup and then been faster than Button with that setup? And that Button is behind in the points because Hamilton is copying him?

Confused

Hamilton got in to a car in 2007 that, if people really do feel McLaren favour a driver when designing a car (which I don't, or not to a degree where it's a valid excuse for poor performance), would have un-questionably been designed to favour Alonso, with him being the incoming 2-WDC.

Because the British press peddle lots of lies...including about LH. Most things the mainline press have told us about him have been wrong... its a source annoyance for LH fans.

Having Mark Hughes' "brilliant" insights quoted at you gets wearing after a while... and I suppose reading people railling against the myths (which you may not even be aware of) also gets wearing ... but then, your boy shares a team with LH (and his fans) so I guess its just something to get used to.

It's much easier to argue against myths than what people actually say?

And BTW I think this race weekend really nails the myth that Jenson is the second coming of Christ as he clearly did not walk on water. I expect all Jenson fans to immediately stop their constant claims that he can turn water into wine or feed 5,000 people. Fanboys

It's much easier to argue against myths than what people actually say?

And BTW I think this race weekend really nails the myth that Jenson is the second coming of Christ as he clearly did not walk on water. I expect all Jenson fans to immediately stop their constant claims that he can turn water into wine or feed 5,000 people. Fanboys

The big mistake Mclaren are making is throwing new bits at the car at every single Grand Prix. Without any single testdays in season nowadays it's a hit and miss with the updates. Back to back comparisons are done in 7,8 laps, while they used to take more than 60 laps sometimes.

Why don't they leave the car as it its for the next GP and try to understand it more, and extract more performance out the same package. Mercedes stopped updating the car long ago and it hasn't lost pace relative to Mclaren have they? Same goes fo Renault...

In my obersvation this is costing Mclaren some speed. You can quite clearly see Button has a hard time coping with this system. It looks like he needs a more predictive and confidince inspiring car than Hamilton, who seems to be more adaptive to different setups/updates etc.

They'd be better off understanding their parts and congruence now than go for more new parts...

Mclaren simply cant understand it.

No coincidence at all, as he again performed strong the following year. Sure, some drivers are easier affected, but that does not make them 'not good enough'. What bullshit.


Right, Hamilton fans and their poor 'myths'. Personally never cared about them. Most were ridiculous anyway so why take them serious.

Don't you think there would have been a more "effective development" if Lewis had not smashed up the car at critical events in free practice leaving Jenson to do all the work?

Such situations are hardly unheard of in Formula 1. Prost would famously set up the car to perfection, only to have Senna borrow his setup and go faster with it.

Well it'll depend on their mindset it seems to me. Yes JB's had totally fair treatment, but Lewis has trashed him on performance. The points tally hides a consistent couple of tenths plus better racecraft. Add that to Fernando's and Heikki's experience and who'll want to be next?

Heikki doing OK at Lotus and Fernando is a superstar again, with no Lewis Hamilton to put them down. Jense a wdc with a good reputation and now fending off humiliation.

No-one who seriously hopes ever to be wdc will partner Lewis I would say, unless they're very young, and Mac won't be looking at very young.

Don't you think there would have been a more "effective development" if Lewis had not smashed up the car at critical events in free practice leaving Jenson to do all the work?

No-one who seriously hopes ever to be wdc will partner Lewis I would say...

thrashed not at all but jb has got himself into to many problems which have cost him set up problems have hurt him also mclaren needs to build a car thats easier to set up and predictable two years in a row jb has been in a car with tyre temperature problems hopefully the pirellis heat up better a car thats easy to set up you see the best of jb

There you go, another facepalm moment...

I really hope Hamilton changes teams sooner rather than later. Then let's see, after a first season of integrating into a new environment. Something which, contrary to every other driver on the grid, he has yet to experience at F1 level.

There you go, another facepalm moment...

I really hope Hamilton changes teams sooner rather than later. Then let's see, after a first season of integrating into a new environment. Something which, contrary to every other driver on the grid, he has yet to experience at F1 level.

There you go, another facepalm moment...

I really hope Hamilton changes teams sooner rather than later. Then let's see, after a first season of integrating into a new environment. Something which, contrary to every other driver on the grid, he has yet to experience at F1 level.

I don't know whats so hard to understand about it. Almost everyone he worked with in his first F1 season he has already known for years. That's a completely unique situation compared to other drivers, as far as I'm aware. Consequently in that regard, a change of teams will bring some new challenges for Hamilton, challenges that other drivers already faced in their first season.

I don't know whats so hard to understand about it. Almost everyone he worked with in his first F1 season he has already known for years. That's a completely unique situation compared to other drivers, as far as I'm aware. Consequently in that regard, a change of teams will bring some new challenges for Hamilton, challenges that other drivers already faced in their first season.

I don't know whats so hard to understand about it. Almost everyone he worked with in his first F1 season he has already known for years. That's a completely unique situation compared to other drivers, as far as I'm aware. Consequently in that regard, a change of teams will bring some new challenges for Hamilton, challenges that other drivers already faced in their first season.

I don't know why you see it as a sine qua non for Lewis to change teams

That IS one thing I don't understand either? Why do people insist that Lewis change teams??????????? It's utterly baffling. Changes teams and go where exactly? Backwards? The only other team I would consider long term a lateral move would be Fezza, and frankly I hope it's out of the question. Where do you people want to see him go? Virgin? Hrt? Minardi? WHY? Mclaren has been consistently one of the top teams for the last 25 years! I don't remember people saying Mika should change teams to prove HIS worth, and he was a McLaren man through n through.

WHICH DRIVER IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD LEAVE A TEAM THATS BASICALLY BACKED YOU YOUR ENTIRE PRO RACING CAREER, PROVIDED YOU WITH 2+ CARS CAPABLE OF FIGHTING FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP, THAT YOU'VE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP WITH, THAT YOU'VE DREAMED ABOUT RACING FOR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE, YOUR HERO RACED THERE AND YOU'RE BASICALLY THE DE FACTO # 1?????????

Why? To satisfy some nameless, faceless, spineless cowards on an internet forum? GET REAL! He ain't gonna leave. Not unless McLaren give him 5 years of backmarkers and pay him in diesel fuel and orange peels.

That IS one thing I don't understand either? Why do people insist that Lewis change teams??????????? It's utterly baffling. Changes teams and go where exactly? Backwards? The only other team I would consider long term a lateral move would be Fezza, and frankly I hope it's out of the question. Where do you people want to see him go? Virgin? Hrt? Minardi? WHY? Mclaren has been consistently one of the top teams for the last 25 years! I don't remember people saying Mika should change teams to prove HIS worth, and he was a McLaren man through n through.

WHICH DRIVER IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD LEAVE A TEAM THATS BASICALLY BACKED YOU YOUR ENTIRE PRO RACING CAREER, PROVIDED YOU WITH 2+ CARS CAPABLE OF FIGHTING FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP, THAT YOU'VE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP WITH, THAT YOU'VE DREAMED ABOUT RACING FOR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE, YOUR HERO RACED THERE AND YOU'RE BASICALLY THE DE FACTO # 1?????????

Why? To satisfy some nameless, faceless, spineless cowards on an internet forum? GET REAL! He ain't gonna leave. Not unless McLaren give him 5 years of backmarkers and pay him in diesel fuel and orange peels.

See, that kind of anxiety is precisely why I'd find a team change interesting.

See, that kind of anxiety is precisely why I'd find a team change interesting.

Of course he has nowhere to go right now, I agree. But things can change pretty fast, so all hope is not lost...

And let's nor forget that some supporters keep advocating a change also, including his no. 1 (sorry, underscore ) fan Grenada - basically every time Hamilton doesn't win the race and crushes the opposition into the ground. It's not only evil detractors like me...

Yes, I want Lewis to go to another team. I want him to leave McLaren as fast as his legs can carry him! McLaren have produced poor cars for Lewis for two years running now and it is not acceptable. I would love for him to go to Ferrari and I'm sure Lewis would love to drive for the scuderia, but realistically Alonso would not stand for it. And I just can't see Lewis in a Red Bull, as he would be too much of a threat to Golden Boy Vettel. But what about Mercedes? Lewis and Norbert get on well and it's only a matter of time before Brawn is producing a winning car once again. There was evidence of Mercedes' resurgence in Korea...the car actually looked faster than the McLaren. Even Schumacher finished fourth in it! I found myself thinking during the race "I would love to see Lewis drive that Mercedes rather than that godawful McLaren"...

So it's not just the Lewis-bashers that want him to go to another team. When Lewis leaves McLaren they will still have Jenson, and they will be a perfect combination...slow car, slow driver.

Two things to say about this is that Lewis said he liked the 07 macca more than 08 car in turms of haw the car felt drive.

And also does any one rember haw slow Lewis was when driving the 06 macca in testing on Michelins up to 3 sec off the pace of Alonso. When they fitted the Bridgestones Lewis was right there with Alonso in turms of pace.

Next year should be intresting when they run the Pirelli's.

Found this

Pirelli

Erm..... That's bullshit.

Infact - It's been disproved so many times on here that I cannot be arsed to find the links.