Your technical-sounding explanation of why Jenson is slower than Lewis is fatally undermined by Jenson having said recently that he doesn't at all mind oversteer – apparently what he really hates is understeer.

Let's be realistic here. Button is a decent, above average F1 driver. But nothing truly special, as you can see by his results against teammates like Fisi, Ralf, Trulli and a past-his-best Rubens. And I really don't know how any serious F1 fan can claim he is "supremely fast", when he hasn't proven to be so at any point in his decade-long F1 career.

I really doubt that. Do you have a source for that?


Rubens past-his-best? Where is the evidence for that?

Button has performed excellent compared to his teammates in most of his seasons. You can't compare Button in his first years to the present Button anyway. His years with Fisi and Ralf are 10 years ago, why even bring it up. Since then he hasn't lost to any teammate. Lewis will be the first in a long time.

Didn't Rubens beat him at Honda?

I'm a little disappointed but then again it's the first quali of the year and the MAC doesn't seem fast on quali runs, but Jenson's pace on the longer runs is rather good. He didn't seem down so I think he's in good shape for the race, and judging by last year's race craft where he was extracting consistent laptimes and being aggressive, I think some good points will be our target.
Anyway, Massa beat Alonso, Rosberg beat Schumacher.

I'm quite sure Button beat Barrichello at Honda. Is it like, you forgot?

If so, I'm not surprised a lot of people don't really think highly of him.

Though most can remember him losing to Ralf which was 10 years ago. Odd.

The pace of Ferrari is also very good on long runs. I'm afraid Mclaren has got alot of work to do. Let's just hope Lewis and Jenson can do damage control untill Mclaren sort out their business and can join the fight for the WDC.

I'm quite sure Rubens beat Jenson in 2008 if I remember correctly.

edit: I looked it up and Rubens did beat Jenson in 2008.

H
Hamilton is faster, that is pretty clear to me. He makes more mistakes though, but not in qualifying ... he will beat Button.

Your technical-sounding explanation of why Jenson is slower than Lewis is fatally undermined by Jenson having said recently that he doesn't at all mind oversteer – apparently what he really hates is understeer.

You claim that in a car suited to his individual style, Jenson is "supremely fast", and - by implication from your not being able "pick between them" - as quick as Lewis. But where is the evidence for that assertion? Why would the bookies have had Hamilton at an average of something like 5-1 for the WDC pre-season, with Jenson at an average of something like 15-1, or three times less likely to win the title in the same equipment, if they considered the two drivers to be just as quick as each other, with Lewis only having an advantage in some random set of conditions that specifically neutralized Jenson's strengths?

Let's be realistic here. Button is a decent, above average F1 driver. But nothing truly special, as you can see by his results against teammates like Fisi, Ralf, Trulli and a past-his-best Rubens. And I really don't know how any serious F1 fan can claim he is "supremely fast", when he hasn't proven to be so at any point in his decade-long F1 career.

Hamilton is on a different level, and will beat Button like a drum in both qualy and races throughout the season as nearly every serious pundit expects. It sounds to me like you know this, but are trying to lay the groundwork for ensuring that the beating Button will receive can later be attributed to Jenson "having to drive against his natural style", the car not suiting Jenson as much as Lewis, or McLaren not doing enough to work out Jenson's problems with the handling. The last two are not claims you've directly made, but I’m just completing the familiar litany as remembered from the posts of fans of drivers like Kimi, Montoya and Coulthard when trying to justify their heroes’ defeats at the hands of teammates.

But most fans who've seen them both Hamilton and Button perform in F1 know that's rubbish: the reason Jenson will be "a few tenths from Lewis most of the time" is that Lewis is a faster and all round better racing driver. Raising imponderables such as "who the car suits more" or who is "having to drive against his natural style" should really only be permitted when those leading forum discussions down such dead ends can come up with supporting evidence from credible team sources – not F1 hacks, the beaten driver or "sources close to him".

I'm a Button fan through and through and even I expect Lewis to get the better of him. However right at this moment that doesn't mean diddly squat, if neither has a potentially winning car and its clear they don't. Don't get me wrong, i think both have pretty much equal driving skills, but honestly imo Lewis is just a bit mentally tougher and focussed. Thats what will give him the edge. When Jenson really puts his mind to it (aka Brazil 2009) then he's as good as any driver, but from what I've seen Lewis is always like that when he gets in the car and this is what gives him the edge.

Also FWIW Jenson definitely can cope better with oversteer than understeer. I seem to remember as far back as in his Benetton/Renault days he said he didn't like oversteer but he was learning to cope with it.

For me the jury is still out until tomorrow on Jenson v Lewis on long run pace/tyre management. It was pretty equal between them on Friday and if anything Jenson appeared to manage the tyres slightly better. So we'll see.

Let's be realistic here. Button is a decent, above average F1 driver. But nothing truly special, as you can see by his results against teammates like Fisi, Ralf, Trulli and a past-his-best Rubens. And I really don't know how any serious F1 fan can claim he is "supremely fast", when he hasn't proven to be so at any point in his decade-long F1 career.

Hamilton is on a different level, and will beat Button like a drum in both qualy and races throughout the season as nearly every serious pundit expects.

Your technical-sounding explanation of why Jenson is slower than Lewis is fatally undermined by Jenson having said recently that he doesn't at all mind oversteer – apparently what he really hates is understeer.

You claim that in a car suited to his individual style, Jenson is "supremely fast", and - by implication from your not being able "pick between them" - as quick as Lewis. But where is the evidence for that assertion? Why would the bookies have had Hamilton at an average of something like 5-1 for the WDC pre-season, with Jenson at an average of something like 15-1, or three times less likely to win the title in the same equipment, if they considered the two drivers to be just as quick as each other, with Lewis only having an advantage in some random set of conditions that specifically neutralized Jenson's strengths?

Let's be realistic here. Button is a decent, above average F1 driver. But nothing truly special, as you can see by his results against teammates like Fisi, Ralf, Trulli and a past-his-best Rubens. And I really don't know how any serious F1 fan can claim he is "supremely fast", when he hasn't proven to be so at any point in his decade-long F1 career.

Hamilton is on a different level, and will beat Button like a drum in both qualy and races throughout the season as nearly every serious pundit expects. It sounds to me like you know this, but are trying to lay the groundwork for ensuring that the beating Button will receive can later be attributed to Jenson "having to drive against his natural style", the car not suiting Jenson as much as Lewis, or McLaren not doing enough to work out Jenson's problems with the handling. The last two are not claims you've directly made, but I’m just completing the familiar litany as remembered from the posts of fans of drivers like Kimi, Montoya and Coulthard when trying to justify their heroes’ defeats at the hands of teammates.

But most fans who've seen them both Hamilton and Button perform in F1 know that's rubbish: the reason Jenson will be "a few tenths from Lewis most of the time" is that Lewis is a faster and all round better racing driver. Raising imponderables such as "who the car suits more" or who is "having to drive against his natural style" should really only be permitted when those leading forum discussions down such dead ends can come up with supporting evidence from credible team sources – not F1 hacks, the beaten driver or "sources close to him".

I think they should have left everything the way it was, kept relationships the same and got Button to catch up, now McLaren have put themselves in a sitution where the team have to catch up to two strong racing outfits that will get stronger themselves, Lewis has to build up new engineering relationships and Button has to catch up like he would of had to do anyway.

If everything was left in the same order and the team was not moved around to help Button, the whole racing outfit would have been as aggresive as ever and this would have been more beneficial to Button. He has been walking on cloud nine for how many weeks talking about how he feels at home, which is all fine, but what about the racing?

If Button was made to work a little harder, he would not of had that rude awakening of qualifing in 8th place, with Lewis feeling overwhelmed with 4th and Whitmarsh shocked at Red Bulls pace, because they would have all been fighting it out for pole.

McLaren's problem has been too much change and not the right focus, and that is evident with the whole of today's result.

Wow. I'm no Button fan, but that is a pretty extreme opinion of him. Fisi, Ralf, Trulli were not selected by BGP and Jensen was - there is a reason for that - or do you figure they just threw all their names in a hat and blindly went with whoever was drawn? I agree he is not 'supremely fast', but I would disagree he is naught but a level above mediocre as you indicate. I think that if one has to degrade Button as a driver to conclude this:



Then perhaps the serious pundits should reconsider their stance. This decade alone they were wrong in 2005, 2007, 2008 and 2009 - (winner and/or spread, depending on which gentlemen you refer to) - so reconsidering is likely a very good idea. Hamilton's level, whatever it is, should be readily and handily supported by information regarding Hamilton - not by putting down his competition - in my view anyway.

I for one never believed that Jenson is a supremely fast driver on a consistent level to be viewed as being on par with the likes of Lewis, and i never willl.

Totally agree. Make your feelings known - email McLaren. A monkey could run that team better than Whitmarsh. As soon as I heard they were taking Phil Prew away from Lewis, I knew there would be trouble. What a stupid stupid thing to do. They didn't take Massa's engineer away from him to accommodate Alonso. Lewis is driving with one hand tied behind his back - it's madness. He is one of McLaren's greatest assets and he is being treated abominably. And I disagree that is is because of being PC. I reckon it is partly because of the dreadful British media (who certainly are NOT PC) who have been banging on for months about "equality at McLaren" and "Button walking into a lion's den". For a team to placate a stupid biased media instead of concentrating on accommodating one of the most exciting racing drivers ever, is sheer stupidity on a grand scale. Rant over!!!!!!

Totally agree. Make your feelings known - email McLaren. A monkey could run that team better than Whitmarsh. As soon as I heard they were taking Phil Prew away from Lewis, I knew there would be trouble. What a stupid stupid thing to do. They didn't take Massa's engineer away from him to accommodate Alonso. Lewis is driving with one hand tied behind his back - it's madness. He is one of McLaren's greatest assets and he is being treated abominably. And I disagree that is is because of being PC. I reckon it is partly because of the dreadful British media (who certainly are NOT PC) who have been banging on for months about "equality at McLaren" and "Button walking into a lion's den". For a team to placate a stupid biased media instead of concentrating on accommodating one of the most exciting racing drivers ever, is sheer stupidity on a grand scale. Rant over!!!!!!

McLaren are here because they fear all that propaganda that surrounded Alonso's lack of ablity to get on mentally and accept the relationship Lewis had within McLaren and Ron Dennis.

The main thing Alonso and Heikki had was a competitive car to get on and win races and that is all that matters, which also has to be more important than feeling "special" in a bad car like we have with Jenson today.

I'm just wonder how long will it take before McLaren changes things back around to get the best out of Lewis in order to get TWO competitive cars out there on the grid.

I have said this many times before, technically Jenson has nothing to offer Lewis or McLaren, it's Hamilton's driving style McLaren need to work around to exact the best car on the grid, trying to build this neutral car to please both drivers plays into the hands of Red Bull and Ferrari.

I am even shocked to hear just before the first qualifying of the season started Hamilton's car was set up wrong, this can only be put down to the ridiculous changes in the team for Button.

The only thing I cannot get out of my head are the extreme changes that happened in the team to suit Button's needs, hearing (Form Jake Humprey on the preview of F1) Button feels so relaxed and cosy in the team, yabbing to everyone, while Lewis sits by himself in some corner texting on his phone, strikes me as the biggest waste of drivers talents and time. Rather than the cosy chats and cuppa tea's, engineers should have been working with their drivers improving the teams car at all times.

What sort of team priniciple has a driver at their base left on their own texting on the phone One that will put out a shockingly bad car, ever so possibly?

Jenson's first question when he went to McLaren was to ask about Lewis's team of engineers, what was Whitmarsh's point in ruining that to please Jenson. Jenson was asking about Hamilton's team because it was a good relationship and a good team who all worked well together, keep it the same and THEN share the information with Jenson to give him one of the best cars on the grid, basic common sense.

Totally agree. Make your feelings known - email McLaren. A monkey could run that team better than Whitmarsh. As soon as I heard they were taking Phil Prew away from Lewis, I knew there would be trouble. What a stupid stupid thing to do. They didn't take Massa's engineer away from him to accommodate Alonso. Lewis is driving with one hand tied behind his back - it's madness. He is one of McLaren's greatest assets and he is being treated abominably. And I disagree that is is because of being PC. I reckon it is partly because of the dreadful British media (who certainly are NOT PC) who have been banging on for months about "equality at McLaren" and "Button walking into a lion's den". For a team to placate a stupid biased media instead of concentrating on accommodating one of the most exciting racing drivers ever, is sheer stupidity on a grand scale. Rant over!!!!!!

Can't believe you're writing Jenson off after ONE QUALIFYING SESSION... seriously you need to give ALL drivers at least 3 races to see who is where. Otherwise you risk looking very stupid!

I think all these posts are a lot of bull.

What's happening here is that Button is indirectly being blamed for the poor performance of the car. What the f*ck? Are you lot serious?

If that's the case, why was the McLaren a real dog at the start of last season? Button as well? Or was it Kovalainen? Get a grip.

These comments are simply sad and too fanboyish to even name.

I would like to correct you I DIRECTLY blame Jenson for the p*ss poor car I witnessed in qualifying.

Without the team changes that happened in McLaren since he joined that car would have been properly built around Lewis and much more competitive, if not more competitive as Ferrari or maybe even Red Bull.

Whitmarsh has taken away enigneers away from Lewis, and set the car up in neutral, and Jake Humprey's said himself on the preview of F1, Lewis was sitting by himself at Woking texting on his phone, as Button was being given all the attention. That are extreme changes that have gone in the team, and we saw the end product yesterday in qualifing.

So answer my questions then. Which radical team changes made last years car such a dog then?

Hint: Button wasn't there yet back then.

If you do not understand the concept of a car starting out with the new unbalancing KERs system, aswell as 50% less downforce as with the rest of the pack, but without the intrepretated downforce serving double diffuser, then what is the point in asking the question a whole year later?

What you should be asking is the team of engineers that Hamilton worked along side with to produce a competitive car again by the middle of the 2009 season, to turn around all those dogging issues to become one of the best drivers and the ONLY team to still have KERs and make it work for them, and why Jenson was so interested in that exact team and why did Whitmarsh move around Hamilton's "team" to appease Jenson Button.

Tough to answer a question, isn't it.

You can also stop suggesting what I should be asking.

For the rest, it's probably mostly in your head.

Whatever, I indirectly told you what you should be asking, really I answered everything for you.

I would also like you to tell me what is in my "fanboy" head? That is just a vague statement which I presume is "meant" to be insulting?

You think that was meant to be insulting? That's not a good thing.

And no, it did not really answer anything. Not why the car became such a dog in the first place. Because, ofcourse, that was the same team of engineers that Hamilton worked along side with, wasn't it?

So what is wrong with giving both drivers even chances in the first place? Most teams do it. Ferrari does it. And they are successful at the moment. But when it happens to Hamilton's McLaren, it's suddenly a bad thing and McLaren "fundlementally destroyed the competitiveness of the team"?

I just really don't follow it.

Anyway, lets hope for the best, but Mclaren have a habit of trying to please everyone while actually pleasing no one.

Hamilton no longer works along side Phil Prew as his principle race engineer, the car has not been built to suit Lewis' driving style and a lot has gone on in the team to make Jenson feel comfortable, that there is enough to unbalance many things. The only thing it does is weaken two drivers who could have been fighting it out for the WDC win right from the start. Again, I see no reason why Hamilton has had to go through this at all, the main thing that is needed is a competitive car and let the drivers do the golden boy grabbing on the tracks.

Anyway I said my piece all I can hope for is for Hamilton to put in a storming performance in the race, like he somewhat did before he lied to the stewards in Australia and like he did in Bahrain last year, both occasions with a dog of a car. I am pretty sure Jenson will have a "smooth" race and will capitalise on other drivers mistakes. I am sure I read somewhere that Jenson starts on the harder tyres, if so he has a small advantage over all infront of him.

No matter what you say Lewis is one of the best drivers on the grid. He is much better than Jenson and is the future of the team. IMO they should build the team around him - he is young and has many years ahead. Mclaren take a different view, they prefer to constantly test him, to make his life difficult. That may be the best way to motivate him, but as he gets older he'll want to a team that will match his own self belief.

Button joined the team late. The car was penned when the only certainty was that Lewis would drive the car. They both have different driving styles, so it's fair to assume that the development of the car from January would have to go in directions that suit both Jenson and Lewis. There is a possibility, perhaps slim, that the development direction of the car is confused.

Ferrari did not build their car to suit either of their drivers driving style neither. You have no evidence McLaren would have been a second faster if they did do so with Hamilton. It really just is a lot of guessing.

From what I have read, in the top 10 only Sutil will start on hard tyres. But I lost that source.

I am not writing Jenson off, he has the ablity to capatilise on other people's mistakes, if anyone infront of him makes a mistake he will be on it like a dog on heat!

What I am angry about are the aggresive changes at McLaren that has obviously taken away the quality of the car McLaren should have put out yesterday and today. Hamilton qualified over a second slower than Vettel, and could have been much lower if Rosberg was not too cautious and Webber did not make a mistake in the end.

The team has been pulled apart for Jenson, which has fundlementally destroyed the competitiveness of the team, of course McLaren will improve over the season, but will it be too late and most importantly, why did they put themselves in the situation to begin with?

It was for Button to feel his way in the team, not to break it to make him feel happy.

I also knew Vettel would be dangerous, he is the one with no pressure on his shoulders, nothing to prove as he has proved it already and in the team with no changes only improvements, it is a recipe for success. Unlike Hamilton who is near forced to start from the start, building up new relationships for Button's sake.

WHAT???? Utter bull. Drivers don't have much input in the car design. Check out www.jamesallenonf1.com and watch the MAC video.
I suspect that the MAC car is slow in quali trim but consistent in race trim.

Vettel has a lot to prove, like most drivers on the grid.

Anamihalmilton has a point. Lewis has always been treated harshly at Mclaren even from his junior days. They deliberately go out of their way to demonstrate that there is no favourism towards him. Shaking up his engineering team didn't make sense to me. If he was successful with his previous team why break up a winning combination - it now means that not only is Jenson getting to know a new engineer, so is Lewis.

The drivers have different driving styles so it will be interesting to see what direction development goes in the future.

My view is that Lewis will leave the team when his current contract expires.

Quite right, Ferrari just went out of their way and built a very good car, however, Massa and Alonso's driving style are pretty aggressive and similiar, as you can see there is very little between them compared to all the other team mates on the grid. Jenson's and Hamilton's driving style is miles apart and will work for them at different times.

While McLaren have neglected everything they know about Hamilton over the winter, they have tried to accommidate Jenson's style. Another year would have been fine, or slowly tweaking this aspect over the year for such a "smooth" driver, but certainly not so aggressively over a small space of time.

The objective for McLaren was delivering a car built around Hamilton, and then slowly getting it to suit Button. McLaren have just FAILED big time, and pretty much FAILED both drivers.

Competitive teams do not build cars totally opposite the the drivers needs, well they are not meant to anyway.

Indeed, their driving styles are probably very different. I just think that, how much better Hamilton might be, McLaren should not have signed Button if they couldn't guarantee him even chances. That would immediately crush the atmosphere in the team anyway. It wouldn't work either. Jenson is not Heikki.

Red Bull designs the car specifically for Vettel.

Mclaren better do the same because Jenson is crap, just like we saw last year in the 2nd half of the season. He's supposedly smooth style and better racing style was just a myth because Lewis is destroying him also in the race easily.

It's best if Mclaren shift the focus on Lewis and fix the car as fast as possible, because else Alonso is going to walk away with this 2010 title easily. ( Red Bull is unreliable anyway ) But Mclaren will support both driver unfortunetly equally so Alonso will win the 2010 WDC most likely.

Kovalainen must be laughing.