Pity we don't have a car to match Lewis's abilities.

Yep looking like 2 years running now

Yes Button will very rarley beat Hamilton in Qualifying but i think the races will be different. I don't think he should of come to Mclaren and i never see him beating Lewis over a season so i think he did make a mistake but the difference will not be huge.

not surprised, button's just lucky last year and even rubens looked more impressive than him...do you really wanted to compare him to lewis?

Button was saying that the McLaren tends to oversteer which he hates (and Lewis likes). Rosberg was saying that the Mercedes tends to understeer (which Schuey hates).

No big surprise I suppose that Jensens' old team have built a car that would suit him better than his new one. Personally I think Jensen has done well to be .4 off Hamilton in the first race, there's .3 between Massa and Alonso.

You think Massa is 0.3s quicker than Alonso?

I dont think being .4 off of Lewis is so bad when you realize that he's still the newcomer to the team. Pretty good starting point against somebody as talented as Lewis is. Will be interesting to see if he's able to claw down that gap over the season or not.

Poor Jenson is in for a very rude awakening this season. It appears he has overestimated his own abilities. He can't see what everyone else can see...that the only reason he was WDC last year was because he had a car that was way ahead of all the others. He will live to regret joining McLaren because he will be no match for Lewis. It's funny that the Button fans who were so smug last year are now conspicuous by their absence...I wonder why???

Very good post, but on the whole I think Button is just an impediment to Lewis and McLaren, he will drag down McLaren adoptive aggresiveness since Lewis joined as they try to get the car to suit Button, and stop focussing on Lewis as much.

Whether Lewis beats Button or Button beats Lewis is neither here nor there as Red Bull and Ferrari are running away with the title if McLaren keep this up.

I am certain if Button did not join the team we would be looking at a much better car today that totally suits Lewis's driving style which would have been challenging for the front row.

Very good post, but on the whole I think Button is just an impediment to Lewis and McLaren, he will drag down McLaren adoptive aggresiveness since Lewis joined as they try to get the car to suit Button, and stop focussing on Lewis as much.

Whether Lewis beats Button or Button beats Lewis is neither here nor there as Red Bull and Ferrari are running away with the title if McLaren keep this up.

I am certain if Button did not join the team we would be looking at a much better car today that totally suits Lewis's driving style which would have been challenging for the front row.

AtlasF1 - where one swallow DOES make a summer

'OMG he so crap he got outqualifyzored! Hamilton is god and Button is wanker!'

Get a life guys. So - what are you going to say tomorrow if Button were to beat Hamilton in the race?

I think they are both great drivers and the battle is going to swing left and right.

Button, Meh, just a little bit better than Heikki, the only difference is Button is a storm trooper when things go his way, and having the ablity to capitalise on people's mistakes. I can see Jenson making up places not through a fantastic "out and out" racers drive, but through others making mistakes tomorrow.

When it comes to treatment, I think this has been McLaren's problem more than Jenson's, bending over backwards to get him on par with Lewis in the factory is what will kill of McLaren's season this year, if they are not careful.

The focus on a winning car has been taken over due to the team trying to make sure everything is equal, and as Hamilton is losing out on having the best of everything, so has the team, and for that trying to get a car to suit Jenson's style has made the car become medicore in comparsion to Red Bull and Ferrari.

So in other words, McLaren have spent too much time messing around pleasing Button when what they should have done was pump in the hours to get a competitive car out on the grid to suit Hamilton's aggresive style and made Button adapted to that.

Sorry I was meant to reply to Redevil.

OMG are you for real?

So… McLaren have not won a constructers title since 1998 and yet the reason they “may not” have a good car this year is down to Jenson.

After the Alonso “debacle” in 2007 it is fair to assume that the weight of the team was put firmly behind Lewis, and yet he won the 2008 championship by a whisker, and in the following year they produced a car which is widely acknowledged as a dog.

The concept and plans for the MP4-25 will have been well underway before
Button was even a consideration for the team, and yet in your world, the lack of one lap speed is down to Jenson “I’m just an Impediment” Button.

One thing is for sure – you are not a McLaren fan.
For one thing you would have more respect for their determination to “try” and
give both of their drivers an equal opportunity to succeed.
Yes I know they have failed in the past – but you have to admire them for doggedly sticking to that ethos.
The truth of the matter is – if – as you seem to believe- Lewis needs a team that will focus on his needs alone in order to succeed, then he needs to find a team which will function like Ferrari did in Schumacher’s day. Alternatively – you need to get a little faith
in both Lewis and McLaren and stop blaming someone who was brought into the team to help them win their first constructors title in 12 years.

So maybe the MP4-25 is a half way house, that none of them really suits

If McLaren built upon that progress of the second half of last season, for this season (not 2008, 2007 or anything time before that) and left things status quo and did not mess around with a great team to bend over backwards for Button, I do not think Red Bull and Ferrari would have been that much fastest than the team, no.

Once McLaren started to release statements of team engineer moving, setting the car in neutral even though they knew exactly the type of style Lewis likes and meeting Jenson demands, I knew from there Hamilton would start out with a disadvantage which would also be a disadvantage to McLaren racing on a whole and seeing them further down the grid.

There is a lot wrong with that car and they took their eye of the ball for Button.

To the rest of your post, MEH!

i agree that they should have put all their eggs in one basket to suit Lewis. It worked for MSC and Alonso. It should have worked if Kovi was not a useless driver the WDC and WCC would have been won. McLaren were leading both with 3 races to go. Whitmarsh openly said they would now be making the car 09 neutral so it wont suit either driver. They even had to get rid of Lewis old engineer and his team. That's just plain bs! No way Ferrari or Renault would have treated Schumi or ALonso like that. The problem is that McLaren are British and they wanna be PC and show they are above being impartial. I know this cuz i was as a student and they screw up their own people just to please outsiders who come to settle by showing they are not discriminating. Yeah sorry if I insulted British people. Just saying that I see about the British attitude.

jenson was more then a match for lewis upto qualy .

jenson was more then a match for lewis upto qualy and jenson we know still not comfortable on 1 lap (yet) and then having a problem with the car (during qualy) i hope they find what it is, as i dnt think he would of been that far back from hammy.

So was Heikki...... .

Something tells me they will find absolutely nothing wrong with the car.;)

jenson was more then a match for lewis upto qualy and jenson we know still not comfortable on 1 lap (yet) and then having a problem with the car (during qualy) i hope they find what it is, as i dnt think he would of been that far back from hammy.

Something tells me they will find absolutely nothing wrong with the car.

jenson was more then a match for lewis upto qualy and jenson we know still not comfortable on 1 lap (yet) and then having a problem with the car (during qualy) i hope they find what it is, as i dnt think he would of been that far back from hammy.

Every year before the start of the season I buy a bottle of champagne. The first race win by Lewis I will crack it open.

I've just put it in the fridge. I'm feeling special about tomorrow!!!

What qualifing laps did you watch. In Q1, Q2 and Q3 Jenson was off-pace.

edit: If MS gets better over the season, I can see Mercedes beating Mclaren in the WCC if Jenson doesn't improve.

1 qualy session, the race hasn't even happened yet, get off your high horse.

And about the Button fan thing, i honestly whilst looking through this thread see very little "smug" or over confident Button fans, on the other hand i see many posts like the one you've just made from people supporting Lewis which just make themselves look silly and "smug".

What qualifing laps did you watch. In Q1, Q2 and Q3 Jenson was off-pace.

edit: If MS gets better over the season, I can see Mercedes beating Mclaren in the WCC if Jenson doesn't improve.

I see a lot of people surprised at how Jenson has been a clear second best to Hamilton today in terms of ultimate pace but I don't see it as surprising at all. Clearly the car isn't working the best and isn't as compliant as either driver would like in the slow middle sector - slow corners being Button's speciality. It's almost a cliche by now, but today's performances from the two of them back up the theory that Hamilton is able to extract a lot of speed out of almost anything whereas to access Button's top level of speed he requires more specific handling characteristics with his car. I imagine their pace in qualifying will be much, much closer in other races where the car's handling doesn't look to be so much of a handful.

jenson was more then a match for lewis upto qualy and jenson we know still not comfortable on 1 lap (yet) and then having a problem with the car (during qualy) i hope they find what it is, as i dnt think he would of been that far back from hammy.

Every year before the start of the season I buy a bottle of champagne. The first race win by Lewis I will crack it open.

I've just put it in the fridge. I'm feeling special about tomorrow!!!

Every year before the start of the season I buy a bottle of champagne. The first race win by Lewis I will crack it open.

I've just put it in the fridge. I'm feeling special about tomorrow!!!

I'd put it in the cellar, mate. Could be worth something in a coupla years....

I see a lot of people surprised at how Jenson has been a clear second best to Hamilton today in terms of ultimate pace but I don't see it as surprising at all. Clearly the car isn't working the best and isn't as compliant as either driver would like in the slow middle sector - slow corners being Button's speciality. It's almost a cliche by now, but today's performances from the two of them back up the theory that Hamilton is able to extract a lot of speed out of almost anything whereas to access Button's top level of speed he requires more specific handling characteristics with his car. I imagine their pace in qualifying will be much, much closer in other races where the car's handling doesn't look to be so much of a handful.

Anyway, that was the sector times in qualy:

HAMILTON.....30.409.....61.248....22.944
BUTTON........30.487.....61.446....23.091

Interesting is that Lewis beat him mainly in the sector that is MP4-25 Achilles heel. Maybe this corroborate the theory which said that Lewis can cope with a car not 100% perfect and is more adaptable than Jens.

oi you!

NOT just yet!

Anyway, that was the sector times in qualy:

HAMILTON.....30.409.....61.248....22.944
BUTTON........30.487.....61.446....23.091

Interesting is that Lewis beat him mainly in the sector that is MP4-25 Achilles heel.

Anyway, that was the sector times in qualy:

HAMILTON.....30.409.....61.248....22.944
BUTTON........30.487.....61.446....23.091

Interesting is that Lewis beat him mainly in the sector that is MP4-25 Achilles heel. Maybe this corroborate the theory which said that Lewis can cope with a car not 100% perfect and is more adaptable than Jens.

You're right about that - most Button fans, in fact most fans full stop, are pretty cool. Unfortunately there's been one or two really obnoxious button fans lurking around that have probably gotten the backs up of some Lewis fans (myself included). It's unfortunate then that there tends to be a bit of backlash.

Yes...I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend any fan of Jenson most of whom are pretty decent. But as you said there were some Button fans last year who were very very unpleasant, especially with regard to Lewis Hamilton, and it did get my back up. In fact, at the start of last season I was actually cheering for Button, until the non-stop gloating of certain Button "fans" (who now appear to have left/been banned from the forum) turned me off him.

That said, I still don't think that Button is really World Champion material and I imagine Lewis will give him a spanking this season...but at the end of the day he is World Champion and no one can take that away from him...

Many make a lot of Jenson's ability to look after the tyres better than Lewis, and although Jenson's smoothness is naturally more gentle on the tyres, I think Lewis is actually better at this than many credit him (I think he's still trying to shake a reputation that's 2 years old).

I think Jenson's smooth style will only be gentle on the tyres once (or if) he manages to balance the car with less oversteer. What's possibly going to work against him in that area this year is that the ban on pitstops means the balance on the car varies through the race more than ever, with the huge range of fuel levels needing compromise setups. It's very possible that oversteer will be a feature of the cars at some point of the race no matter how well balanced the car is. If Jenson continues to struggle to look after the tyres when he has oversteer, he might find it more than cancels out the gains he has once the balance becomes more neutral or more towards understeer.

My gut instinct is that unless Jenson gets a good balance (for his style) in qualifying, he'll be looking for a few tenths from Lewis most of the time. In a car suited to their individual styles I think both Lewis and Jenson are supremely fast, and I'm not sure I could pick between them, but I think Lewis will loose less time than Jenson when the car isn't matching their natural styles. How Jenson compares to Lewis in the races will be more down to whether McLaren and Jenson can balance the car to make the most of his smooth style. If he's always having to drive against his natural style, he'll be more prone to overdriving and struggling with the tyres. In terms of race craft, Lewis is a little more aggressive with the positives and negatives that brings, and Jenson is a very decisive and clean overtaker, who may not go for the more risky chances but will have less race damaging incidents or errors.

Although I think they are quite closely matched, overall I think Lewis will be ahead of Jenson more than not in qualifying, and will probably have more wins (if the McLaren is a winning car). If the car isn't quite championship winning material, I wouldn't be surprised if the final points tally might be switched, with Jenson collecting points more consistently. I'm certain he'll be more of a threat to Lewis than Heiki was. I fully respect Jenson for being up the challenge of taking on Lewis at McLaren (although I'm sure there were many reasons behind the decision, and not just 'needing the challenge'), and he's more confident in his own ability than many outsiders are.