jjcale
Mar 10 2010, 09:17
QUOTE (Yorkie @ Mar 9 2010, 21:26)
Yes i would think Alonso fans would prefer Lewis to beat Button same as Lewis fans would prefer Alonso to beat Massa, that way it cements both their reputations as being the absolute best
Do people really look at it that way? What ever happened to "may the better man win"?
Grenada
Mar 10 2010, 10:00
I wonder if Alonso strode into Ferrari and demanded to know if it was Felipe's team.
RoutariEnjinu
Mar 10 2010, 10:05
I don't think Button 'strode into' McLaren and 'demanded to know if it was' Lewis' team either.
He was probably approached by McLaren, to which he might have quite casually and politely asked if it was Lewis' team, or whether he is allowed a fair shot. McLaren must have told him he'd have a fair shot, and he signed up.
QUOTE (Rinehart @ Mar 10 2010, 10:14)
Absolute twaddle. He would have needed to finish the sentence with words to the effect of "which gives Lewis and advantage". But he didn't. He was merely describing the situation. That is not an excuse.
So he's saying it's Lewis' team but he doesn't have an advantage, ok.
Rinehart
Mar 10 2010, 10:40
QUOTE (Grenada @ Mar 10 2010, 10:00)
I wonder if Alonso strode into Ferrari and demanded to know if it was Felipe's team.
This is a Jenson v Lewis thread and Jenson chose to join McLaren, claiming he wanted the challenge of taking on Lewis. So he was obviously satisfied with the circumstances, that it is possible.
Rinehart
Mar 10 2010, 10:47
QUOTE (Arion @ Mar 10 2010, 10:38)
So he's saying it's Lewis' team but he doesn't have an advantage, ok.
Nope. Spurious claim. He didn't say it was Lewis 'team' he said it was Lewis 'environment'. The former infers a preference of favoratism (which is what you are trying to claim), the later is merely an observation of fact.
dabrasco
Mar 10 2010, 10:47
the whole 'is this Lewis team?' question is kinda silly.
Even if it is indeed "Lewis team", not like they are ever gonna tell Jenson the WDC, "yea actually it is, but we think you will make a very good support driver" or something like that.
Jay101
Mar 10 2010, 11:05
Christ going by some of the posts I've read anyone would think when Lewis retires from the sport so will Mclaren.
Lewis is just a driver the same as Button, Alonso, Massa and many others, the team work for it's drivers to give them the best shot at the WDC and the team the best shot at the WCC, they will reduce there chances of a WCC if they hinder either of there drivers so no it's not Lewis's team and never will be.
undersquare
Mar 10 2010, 11:09
Jense expressed the challenge as being 'Lewis in his environment' just because the drivers don't like to say 'Lewis who is effing fast'
The team will simply 'prefer' the faster driver.
Anyway as far as I'm concerned Jense has to be up to speed from FP1, Lap1. That's what Hammy would be if the situation were reversed, as we saw in Suzuka last year - his second ever lap and no-one else got close till the track dried. Over to you, Jenson.
Rinehart
Mar 10 2010, 11:30
Q: Jenson, do you feel you are already fully integrated into the team, or does Lewis still have a bit of an edge in this respect?
JB:
I don’t think there’s an edge, particularly. Of course, Lewis knows the team, and he feels very much at home here, but
the team has done everything it possibly can to make sure that we receive equal treatment and equipment. And I can honestly say that my welcome here, and the experience of working at Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has been overwhelmingly positive - I was made to feel part of the family as soon as I joined, and I know that they’ve made every effort to ensure that I feel at home, feel comfortable and can work to the best of my ability.
I have absolutely no concerns in that area whatsoever.Jenson is making no excuses. No further questions your honour.
Yorkie
Mar 10 2010, 11:36
QUOTE (jjcale @ Mar 10 2010, 09:17)
Do people really look at it that way? What ever happened to "may the better man win"?
Well if you support someone you like to think they are the best
Brian O Flaherty
Mar 10 2010, 12:51
QUOTE (Yorkie @ Mar 10 2010, 12:36)
Well if you support someone you like to think they are the best
Really? Or do you just wish the best for them. That would be how I would describe it. Of all the drivers and/or teams across all sports that I support, I'm struggling to think of one that I could realistically regard as being the absolute best at what they do (sadly). But I wish the best for each and every one of them at all times.
QUOTE (Rinehart @ Mar 10 2010, 10:47)
Nope. Spurious claim. He didn't say it was Lewis 'team' he said it was Lewis 'environment'. The former infers a preference of favoratism (which is what you are trying to claim), the later is merely an observation of fact.
it's just a matter of semantics. You don't casually bring up a question "is this Lewis's team?" he either thinks it is or he's trying to suggest Lewis is favoured. Observation of fact? The environment is simply McLaren's environment.
RoutariEnjinu
Mar 10 2010, 13:00
QUOTE (Rinehart @ Mar 10 2010, 12:30)
Q: Jenson, do you feel you are already fully integrated into the team, or does Lewis still have a bit of an edge in this respect?
JB:
I don’t think there’s an edge, particularly. Of course, Lewis knows the team, and he feels very much at home here, but
the team has done everything it possibly can to make sure that we receive equal treatment and equipment. And I can honestly say that my welcome here, and the experience of working at Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has been overwhelmingly positive - I was made to feel part of the family as soon as I joined, and I know that they’ve made every effort to ensure that I feel at home, feel comfortable and can work to the best of my ability.
I have absolutely no concerns in that area whatsoever.Jenson is making no excuses. No further questions your honour.
Brundle alluded to the same. In a BBC 2010 preview chat he said something like "despite peoples perceptions, McLaren are a very welcoming and friendly team, very easy to work with" and as he said the "despite what people think" part, he half rolled his eyes. He drove for them, and this year he has Alonso for the WDC.
Yorkie
Mar 10 2010, 13:14
QUOTE (Brian O Flaherty @ Mar 10 2010, 12:51)
Really? Or do you just wish the best for them. That would be how I would describe it. Of all the drivers and/or teams across all sports that I support, I'm struggling to think of one that I could realistically regard as being the absolute best at what they do (sadly). But I wish the best for each and every one of them at all times.
I guess there are varies reasons why people support drivers, theres the nationalistic take thats why we see so many new Spanish and Polish F1 fans.
Would you not consider Sebastien Loeb the best at what he does?
Its my perception that MS, Alonso and Lewis are a cut above the rest and its always something ive admired people blessed with exceptional talent like Tiger Woods and Roger Federer.
Then when you add emotion in to it like i had with Senna, like i have now with Lewis, then you want them to be the best always, i guess its just hero worship, if everyones the same then theres no heroes.
Brian O Flaherty
Mar 10 2010, 13:37
QUOTE (Yorkie @ Mar 10 2010, 14:14)
Would you not consider Sebastien Loeb the best at what he does?
Unquestionably yes. But do I support him? No. Ergo, any driver that I support in rallying I could not realistically call 'the best' because Loeb quite clearly is.
GoonerLewis
Mar 10 2010, 13:42
I want Jenson to do so well at Mclaren but not beat Lewis
Lights
Mar 10 2010, 13:47
It just starts out natural. For whatever reason, you want someone to do well. Or in other words, better than anyone else. There are ofcourse gloryhunters but for a lot of people it does not matter what results that someone is getting.
In the same way you start having opposite feelings against rivals from the person you want to do well, as you really want them to be beaten, and don't them to beat the one you support.
Yorkie
Mar 10 2010, 13:53
QUOTE (Brian O Flaherty @ Mar 10 2010, 13:37)
Unquestionably yes. But do I support him? No. Ergo, any driver that I support in rallying I could not realistically call 'the best' because Loeb quite clearly is.
Just re-read your post now, i misread it the first time.
Obviously people support drivers for different reasons
Rinehart
Mar 10 2010, 14:53
QUOTE (Arion @ Mar 10 2010, 12:58)
it's just a matter of semantics. You don't casually bring up a question "is this Lewis's team?" he either thinks it is or he's trying to suggest Lewis is favoured. Observation of fact? The environment is simply McLaren's environment.
IMO its not semantics, there is a fundamental contradiction here. You agree where I have quoted you above that the "the environment" is a McLaren entity whereas "Lewis Team" is something Button never said but you earlier claimed he did when you claimed he said it because he was making excuses. See the quote I provided earlier which proves that Button isn't making excuses.
Grenada
Mar 10 2010, 16:37
QUOTE (Rinehart @ Mar 10 2010, 11:30)
Q: Jenson, do you feel you are already fully integrated into the team, or does Lewis still have a bit of an edge in this respect?
JB:
I don’t think there’s an edge, particularly. Of course, Lewis knows the team, and he feels very much at home here, but
the team has done everything it possibly can to make sure that we receive equal treatment and equipment. And I can honestly say that my welcome here, and the experience of working at Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has been overwhelmingly positive - I was made to feel part of the family as soon as I joined, and I know that they’ve made every effort to ensure that I feel at home, feel comfortable and can work to the best of my ability.
I have absolutely no concerns in that area whatsoever.Jenson is making no excuses. No further questions your honour.
It's early days yet.
Kenaltgr
Mar 10 2010, 18:10
If Hamilton beats Button nothing much will happen with the team.
If Button beats Hamilton their will be problems in the team. You can only imagine what Hamilton will say in interviews after Button has beaten him to wins. It will either destabilize the team or Hamilton will leave. Hamilton will not just lay down and cause no problems if Button is consistently beating him.
NightProwler
Mar 10 2010, 18:17
QUOTE (Kenaltgr @ Mar 10 2010, 19:10)
If Hamilton beats Button nothing much will happen with the team.
If Button beats Hamilton their will be problems in the team. You can only imagine what Hamilton will say in interviews after Button has beaten him to wins. It will either destabilize the team or Hamilton will leave. Hamilton will not just lay down and cause no problems if Button is consistently beating him.
Its certainly a strong possibility
undersquare
Mar 10 2010, 18:18
QUOTE (Kenaltgr @ Mar 10 2010, 18:10)
If Hamilton beats Button nothing much will happen with the team.
If Button beats Hamilton their will be problems in the team. You can only imagine what Hamilton will say in interviews after Button has beaten him to wins. It will either destabilize the team or Hamilton will leave. Hamilton will not just lay down and cause no problems if Button is consistently beating him.
In your dreams
NightProwler
Mar 10 2010, 18:21
I wonder if we will here the old " Well, ive got the number 2 on my car, so clearly im the number 2 driver" line again this season when if Button beats him in a 1-2 this season...... I think we will
that can only happen "with a little help" of hamilton himself by making stupid mistakes, which is possible.
BullHead
Mar 10 2010, 18:32
My 07 Hammy T-shirt gets a new life....
Brandz07
Mar 10 2010, 19:03
QUOTE (BullHead @ Mar 10 2010, 18:32)
My 07 Hammy T-shirt gets a new life....
thats what i thought when i knew he had 2
QUOTE (Yorkie @ Mar 9 2010, 22:10)
Thats the point though despite the limits on testing Webber has said the cars are easier to drive and easier for young drivers to make an impression in
What, like Alguesuari? I have a feeling that, with the tests (few though they were) under his belt over the winter, he's going to look alot more convincing than he did last year....
QUOTE (jjcale @ Mar 10 2010, 09:17)
Do people really look at it that way? What ever happened to "may the better man win"?
Long gone for many, I fear. There are too many who approach this with an agenda, and that leads their understanding before anything else.
This should silence claims that Lewis will screw up his tyres and JB won't in the race... but I dare say it won't!
Jonathan Neale:
"...Lewis is a more aggressive braker and turner of the car so he tries to drive the corners in more of a V-shape.
Jenson is very smooth, which means he carries more momentum in the corners and loads up the car with more lateral G-forces.
Both have the propensity to damage tyres if that's done in an unguarded way..."
Bonaventura
Mar 10 2010, 20:23
Yorkie
Mar 10 2010, 23:35
QUOTE (Kenaltgr @ Mar 10 2010, 18:10)
If Hamilton beats Button nothing much will happen with the team.
If Button beats Hamilton their will be problems in the team. You can only imagine what Hamilton will say in interviews after Button has beaten him to wins. It will either destabilize the team or Hamilton will leave. Hamilton will not just lay down and cause no problems if Button is consistently beating him.
Whenever Alonso beat him he just studied the data and worked harder at his game, he wouldnt ask the team to slow down Button in any way
Yorkie
Mar 10 2010, 23:37
QUOTE (NightProwler @ Mar 10 2010, 18:21)
I wonder if we will here the old " Well, ive got the number 2 on my car, so clearly im the number 2 driver" line again this season when if Button beats him in a 1-2 this season...... I think we will
Thats because he was the #2 driver leading up to Monaco
Yorkie
Mar 10 2010, 23:42
QUOTE (angst @ Mar 10 2010, 19:05)
What, like Alguesuari? I have a feeling that, with the tests (few though they were) under his belt over the winter, he's going to look alot more convincing than he did last year....
I think so too, but are the cars easier to drive?
I remember MS just having 1 test before his GP debut and he qualified 7th
QUOTE (Rinehart @ Mar 10 2010, 14:53)
IMO its not semantics, there is a fundamental contradiction here. You agree where I have quoted you above that the "the environment" is a McLaren entity whereas "Lewis Team" is something Button never said but you earlier claimed he did when you claimed he said it because he was making excuses. See the quote I provided earlier which proves that Button isn't making excuses.
um....he said "lewis's environment" not "Mclaren's environment". McLaren's environment is a observation of fact, Lewis' environment implies something else.
he asked is McLaren "Lewis' team". As it has been said, it's not like McLaren would say yes, you're just a lapdog anyway, so what's his agenda in raising the question?
I believe the interview you quoted is a recent one, he's now house trained, he's just reading from the press release.
QUOTE (Kenaltgr @ Mar 10 2010, 18:10)
If Hamilton beats Button nothing much will happen with the team.
If Button beats Hamilton their will be problems in the team. You can only imagine what Hamilton will say in interviews after Button has beaten him to wins. It will either destabilize the team or Hamilton will leave. Hamilton will not just lay down and cause no problems if Button is consistently beating him.
you could swap Hamilton with Alonso, then it'd be 2007. Got beaten, throw some tantrums, then left.
QUOTE (mstar @ Mar 6 2010, 11:06)
"Jenson Button, the Frome Flyer" - pure class!
fenixracing
Mar 11 2010, 10:55
its seems that even the bbc crew gives lewis the upper hand but not that big
sorry if its already posted
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8549762.stm
GoonerLewis
Mar 11 2010, 11:01
QUOTE (fenixracing @ Mar 11 2010, 10:55)
its seems that even the bbc crew gives lewis the upper hand but not that big
sorry if its already posted
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8549762.stmYeh its been posted i think but still.
Martin was right in what he was saying though, If its about managing the tyres then Jenson has a excellent chance of winning alot of races if the car is good. But if you have to really push say when you come in for your 1st set of tyres and most of the fuel has burnt off then Lewis will thrash Jenson as you don't have to handle the tyres as much as in the first stint with the reduced fuel load.
Jenson will on occasion beat Lewis in qualyfing which is so important this year and this could be a huge factor on the race. If Lewis can manage his tyres on the first stint ok then he has an excellent chance of winning alot of races.
So exciting isn't it, But our boys will be at the front!!!!
Feanaro
Mar 11 2010, 11:10
QUOTE (fenixracing @ Mar 11 2010, 11:55)
its seems that even the bbc crew gives lewis the upper hand but not that big
sorry if its already posted
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8549762.stmgood chit chat
,think that Eddie Jordan is the most accurate and objective in that interview, the others seem to try and sugarcoat things.So yes my prediction is that lewis will win comfortably. But i will the first to say i was wrong and underestimated jenson if he wins the battle.
Cheers
is it me but just by the interviews and what people like jake from bbc and other journalists been saying... Jenson seems VERY confident in his ability. Maybe he knows that lewis won't murder him and he will get quicker and quicker and beat lewis sometimes this season?
moorsey
Mar 11 2010, 11:24
QUOTE (GoonerLewis @ Mar 11 2010, 12:01)
Yeh its been posted i think but still.
Martin was right in what he was saying though, If its about managing the tyres then Jenson has a excellent chance of winning alot of races if the car is good. But if you have to really push say when you come in for your 1st set of tyres and most of the fuel has burnt off then Lewis will thrash Jenson as you don't have to handle the tyres as much as in the first stint with the reduced fuel load.
Jenson will on occasion beat Lewis in qualyfing which is so important this year and this could be a huge factor on the race. If Lewis can manage his tyres on the first stint ok then he has an excellent chance of winning alot of races.
So exciting isn't it, But our boys will be at the front!!!!
Except that Bridgestone suggested that Lewis was showing less wear on his tyres than was Jenson.
GoonerLewis
Mar 11 2010, 11:29
QUOTE (mstar @ Mar 11 2010, 11:22)
is it me but just by the interviews and what people like jake from bbc and other journalists been saying... Jenson seems VERY confident in his ability. Maybe he knows that Lewis won't murder him and he will get quicker and quicker and beat lewis sometimes this season?
Jenson has every right to be confident in his ability he is world champion. Jenson was in a car that was ALOT faster in 5 out of the first 6 races and won quite easy, you have to look at when Mclaren caught up with Brawn and still it was only on par maybe a tad slower final 3rd of the season Lewis cleaned up and Jenson didn't get that many points at all.
No doubt i think he will beat Lewis 3 or 4 times this season but most races will be won by lewis in the head to head everyone knows this even the Jenson fans.
To be honest this battle will be better in 2011.
GoonerLewis
Mar 11 2010, 11:30
QUOTE (moorsey @ Mar 11 2010, 11:24)
Except that Bridgestone suggested that Lewis was showing less wear on his tyres than was Jenson.
Really? you got a link for this info, that is interesting if true. Jenson has no chance then
Rinehart
Mar 11 2010, 11:48
QUOTE (GoonerLewis @ Mar 11 2010, 11:29)
Jenson has every right to be confident in his ability he is world champion. Jenson was in a car that was ALOT faster in 5 out of the first 6 races and won quite easy, you have to look at when Mclaren caught up with Brawn and still it was only on par maybe a tad slower final 3rd of the season Lewis cleaned up and Jenson didn't get that many points at all.
No doubt i think he will beat Lewis 3 or 4 times this season but most races will be won by lewis in the head to head everyone knows this even the Jenson fans.
To be honest this battle will be better in 2011.
Jenson had a car a LOT faster than the others in the first 5 out of 6 races???? Are you sure you are not arriving at that conclusion just because he won?
For a kick off his car wasn't quicker than his teammates and secondly, I don't remember Jenson having a conclusively faster car in Malaysia, Bahrain, Spain or Turkey, judging by qualifying, and fastest laps.
Most people said Kimi would easily beat Massa. Its not always the case that the overwhelming favorite dominates the underdog. Hamiton appears to be slightly quicker, but in over 10,000kms of racing this season, there are a lot more variables than the simple consideration of who is potentially slightly quicker.
Grenada
Mar 11 2010, 12:29
QUOTE (GoonerLewis @ Mar 11 2010, 11:30)
Really? you got a link for this info, that is interesting if true. Jenson has no chance then
QUOTE
AUTOSPORT
MARCH 4
Page 13: NEWS PIT & PADDOCK
AUTOSPORT SAYS...
GLENN FREEMAN
NEWS EDITOR
Guess which of the McLaren drivers was over-driving at last week’s test and suffering excessive tyre wear? If you’ve applied perceived wisdom to your answer, then you’re well and truly wrong. Yup, according to Bridgestone, super-smooth world champion Jenson Button is working his tyres too hard, while aggressive, oversteer-lover Lewis Hamilton has it under control.
That's what it says word for word. I have the issue.
undersquare
Mar 11 2010, 13:30
QUOTE (mstar @ Mar 11 2010, 11:22)
is it me but just by the interviews and what people like jake from bbc and other journalists been saying... Jenson seems VERY confident in his ability. Maybe he knows that lewis won't murder him and he will get quicker and quicker and beat lewis sometimes this season?
McLaren and Lewis too have worked hard at this, getting Jense embedded. Great job too, lots of publicity and Jense as prepared as he can be. He's 5 years senior, current wdc, and feeling loved.
When the racing starts though, that's something else; drivers have been confident against Lewis before.
GNT4ME
Mar 11 2010, 17:02
Nice piece by Mark Hughes in this weeks Autosport regarding Lewis and Jenson’s careers to date.
Reading between the lines, it looks like he thinks it improbable that Jenson will come out on top this year – but he would quite like it if he did.
From the Thursday press conference Q&A:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81994QUOTE
Q. (Ian Parkes – The Press Association) Question to Jenson and Lewis: just been watching the dynamic between you two guys while the other three have been answering questions at the front. You've been having a good laugh and a joke, sharing comments etc. Is that a good indicator of the friendship/relationship you two have already developed over the past few weeks together?
JB: It's all for show! Exactly what we were told to do by Steve (press officer Steve Cooper).
LH: I agree. We're focusing on a potential move to acting in the future!
JB: And no one's asking us any questions, so...
I remember an earlier twitter post saying they were acting like a bunch of school boys at the back of the class (JB and LH were on the back row).
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