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Lights
Aug 29 2010, 17:39
QUOTE (Skinnyguy @ Aug 29 2010, 19:34) *
He�s brilliant in SOME conditions. A drying track, everyone on inters, then he�s good, he�ll make them go further than others.

No, he won't make them go further than others. Button is not better than anyone else in making his tyres last longer.

QUOTE (Skinnyguy @ Aug 29 2010, 19:34) *
First spots of rain, everyone still on slicks, he�ll lose time.

No, he won't lose time. He's usually strong in those conditions. In those exact circumstances he overtook Kubica today. And he also overtook half of the field in those conditions in 1 lap at Nurburgring '07.
Simon Says
Aug 29 2010, 18:02
QUOTE (karlth @ Aug 29 2010, 16:31) *
Button's car was damaged so it was an unfair fight. Yet it was obvious this weekend that Hamilton was again the quicker driver.


Lewis was dominating Jenson in changing conditions yesterday too. Sometimes Lewis was even almost 2 seconds quicker under the same wet conditions.
simplyfast
Aug 29 2010, 18:03
QUOTE (jjcale @ Aug 29 2010, 16:17) *
I know you are disappointed in JB this weekend but bear in mind that if SV had not hit him he could easily have won today. Look at how close it finished... if he had a chance to come in for a new nose who knows what could have happened.... I think he did very well in the race.

did you watch the race at all?
clearly lewis was gaping Jenson while Jenson was holding up the cars behind him.
At best Jenson would have held onto a podium but today there was no way he would have taken lewis.
Its not fanboyism its reality.
Onyemaechi
Aug 29 2010, 18:04
QUOTE (Lights @ Aug 29 2010, 18:30) *
Do you neglect things on purpose?


Oh no redface.gif Not at all blush.gif I`m just saying... if Jenson is really so good at changeable conditions, he would have been far away from Kubica and Vettel... at least far away enough not to get screwed by either Vettel or Kubica. Thats all I`m saying. rolleyes.gif
Jeag
Aug 29 2010, 18:08
QUOTE (Skinnyguy @ Aug 29 2010, 18:34) *
He´s brilliant in SOME conditions. A drying track, everyone on inters, then he´s good, he´ll make them go further than others.

First spots of rain, everyone still on slicks, he´ll lose time.


Wasn't it when the first spots of rain came down that Jenson went from 5th to 2nd? Wasn't it Kubica who was running wide and Vettel not being able to control his car and Jenson being the good one when the conditions were changeable?
Lights
Aug 29 2010, 18:08
QUOTE (Onyemaechi @ Aug 29 2010, 20:04) *
Oh no redface.gif Not at all blush.gif I`m just saying... if Jenson is really so good at changeable conditions, he would have been far away from Kubica and Vettel... at least far away enough not to get screwed by either Vettel or Kubica. Thats all I`m saying. rolleyes.gif

So you do neglect things on purpose. After all, others have replied to the first time you said that with arguments which might influence your opinion. Yet you completely ignore them. Which means you either accidentally didn't read it, or you're just a troll.
simplyfast
Aug 29 2010, 18:10
QUOTE (ZooL @ Aug 29 2010, 16:36) *
The problem with Button is he hasn't looked like regularly beating Hamilton at all, so why do people think he is suddenly going to claw back 35pts and then overtake Hamilton?

So with only 6 races to go, why dont McLaren just back Hamilton? cause there's no way they will beat RBR for pure pace.


pure pace thats exactly what the McLaren had today clap.gif
Jeag
Aug 29 2010, 18:12
QUOTE (Onyemaechi @ Aug 29 2010, 19:04) *
Oh no redface.gif Not at all blush.gif I`m just saying... if Jenson is really so good at changeable conditions, he would have been far away from Kubica and Vettel... at least far away enough not to get screwed by either Vettel or Kubica. Thats all I`m saying. rolleyes.gif


Well what your saying is rubbish, because if you weren't a massive troll just looking to antagonise people like me (yes I'm falling for it) you'd have seen thaty when the conditions were changeable like the first couple of laps you'd have noticed Jenson going from 5th to 2nd.
simplyfast
Aug 29 2010, 18:15
QUOTE (Jeag @ Aug 29 2010, 19:12) *
Well what your saying is rubbish, because if you weren't a massive troll just looking to antagonise people like me (yes I'm falling for it) you'd have seen thaty when the conditions were changeable like the first couple of laps you'd have noticed Jenson going from 5th to 2nd.

if you watched the race you would know Jenson pick up 2 of those 3 places at the start
Jeag
Aug 29 2010, 18:19
QUOTE (simplyfast @ Aug 29 2010, 19:15) *
if you watched the race you would know Jenson pick up 2 of those 3 places at the start


So what's your point?
mgs315
Aug 29 2010, 18:24
QUOTE (simplyfast @ Aug 29 2010, 19:15) *
if you watched the race you would know Jenson pick up 2 of those 3 places at the start


And the third due thanks to Robert having a moment at Eau Rouge.

Either way, he was faultless during the time he was on track today. Due to the damaged wing he wasn't going to catch Lewis who really apart from one small error was a complete monster today. Both very commendable drives from both drivers. I'm sure we can all agree that should've been a 1-2 today.

Who cares who was the better driver today considering they were both excellent.
zack1994
Aug 29 2010, 18:29
QUOTE (Onyemaechi @ Aug 29 2010, 18:04) *
Oh no redface.gif Not at all blush.gif I`m just saying... if Jenson is really so good at changeable conditions, he would have been far away from Kubica and Vettel... at least far away enough not to get screwed by either Vettel or Kubica. Thats all I`m saying. rolleyes.gif

the first lap jenson was the fastest right behind kubica and quite close to lewis aswell but tried to overtake kubica and got damage which caused an imbalance and hurt him badly without that he would have challenged lewis
Lights
Aug 29 2010, 18:29
QUOTE (zack1994 @ Aug 29 2010, 20:25) *
if you look at the first he was the fastest he was all over kubica while hamilton was only a little bit ahead of kubica lewis was being held up by no one and jenson was only a 1 second behind lewis but then he got the damage which hampered him big time if that didnt happened he would have challenged lewis no doubt about it

We simply don't know how much damage he had and how much it hampered him. Hamilton was in form today and I doubt Button could have challenged him.
Jeag
Aug 29 2010, 18:31
QUOTE (zack1994 @ Aug 29 2010, 19:25) *
if you look at the first he was the fastest he was all over kubica while hamilton was only a little bit ahead of kubica lewis was being held up by no one and jenson was only a 1 second behind lewis but then he got the damage which hampered him big time if that didnt happened he would have challenged lewis no doubt about it


I don't know about that, Lewis did look faster all weekend but not by the margin seen in the race today. My point is, we have people here critizing Jenson in this race for his display in changeable conditions agaisnt Kubica and Vettel, they must not have been watching the race. The entire reason Jenson got to 2nd was because he was better than them when the conditions got a bit tricky.
simplyfast
Aug 29 2010, 18:32
QUOTE (zack1994 @ Aug 29 2010, 19:25) *
if you look at the first he was the fastest he was all over kubica while hamilton was only a little bit ahead of kubica lewis was being held up by no one and jenson was only a 1 second behind lewis but then he got the damage which hampered him big time if that didnt happened he would have challenged lewis no doubt about it

pleas enlighten as to what proof you have.
Perhaps you have spoken to both and know who was bringing their tyres into the correct temperature range and such things.
The bottom line is Lewis won and unfortunately Jenson had a good race ruined by that hack Vettel.
Jensons pace all weekend (even when he had a perfect wing) was below that of both RBR so it tends to favour the fact that he would have lost second place or at best ended up so busy defending it that Lewis would have still gotten away.
Jenson IMHO should have had a podium today but also IMHO he would never have got up to Lewis.
Onyemaechi
Aug 29 2010, 18:32
QUOTE (Jeag @ Aug 29 2010, 19:12) *
Well what your saying is rubbish, because if you weren't a massive troll just looking to antagonise people like me (yes I'm falling for it) you'd have seen thaty when the conditions were changeable like the first couple of laps you'd have noticed Jenson going from 5th to 2nd.


Yeah thats alright and nice, but you`re missing the point. You cant say he`s brilliant and then as evidence bring up, he jumped Kubica and Vettel and he went from 5th to 2nd. rolleyes.gif Why? Because the same drivers ruined Jensons race, while he should have been miles ahead of them. wave.gif
If Jenson had really lived up to the "he`s brilliant in changeable conditions" myth, we should have seen him nowhere near Kubica, Vettel, Lewis tongue.gif kiss.gif
Bonaventura
Aug 29 2010, 18:34
QUOTE (Onyemaechi @ Aug 29 2010, 18:32) *
Yeah thats alright and nice, but you`re missing the point. You cant say he`s brilliant and then as evidence bring up, he jumped Kubica and Vettel and he went from 5th to 2nd. rolleyes.gif Why? Because the same drivers ruined Jensons race, while he should have been miles ahead of them. wave.gif
If Jenson had really lived up to the "he`s brilliant in changeable conditions" myth, we should have seen him nowhere near Kubica, Vettel, Lewis tongue.gif kiss.gif

at the end he was tongue.gif
zack1994
Aug 29 2010, 18:34
QUOTE (Lights @ Aug 29 2010, 18:29) *
We simply don't know how much damage he had and how much it hampered him. Hamilton was in form today and I doubt Button could have challenged him.

well jenson said he had bad understeer tried to dial it out with more front wing but that made the rear twitchy so the balance was really bad so it wasnt a fair comparison but its a shame because cause i think he could have challenged going by the first lap when he seem to be the best
Jeag
Aug 29 2010, 18:36
QUOTE (Onyemaechi @ Aug 29 2010, 19:32) *
Yeah thats alright and nice, but you`re missing the point. You cant say he`s brilliant and then as evidence bring up, he jumped Kubica and Vettel and he went from 5th to 2nd. rolleyes.gif Why? Because the same drivers ruined Jensons race, while he should have been miles ahead of them. wave.gif
If Jenson had really lived up to the "he`s brilliant in changeable conditions" myth, we should have seen him nowhere near Kubica, Vettel, Lewis tongue.gif kiss.gif


Why should Jenson have been miles ahead of everyone? The rain at the start lasted all of about 1 lap and then the safety car came out and it was a dry race again, and it remained a dry race for Jenson until he was taken out by Vettel.
So why don't you tell me how Jenson should have been miles ahead of everyone?
simplyfast
Aug 29 2010, 18:37
QUOTE (Jeag @ Aug 29 2010, 19:31) *
I don't know about that, Lewis did look faster all weekend but not by the margin seen in the race today. My point is, we have people here critizing Jenson in this race for his display in changeable conditions agaisnt Kubica and Vettel, they must not have been watching the race. The entire reason Jenson got to 2nd was because he was better than them when the conditions got a bit tricky.

this is exactly why i posted the fact Jenson got two of those three places at the start.
Jenson gained two because of a better start and only one because of changeable conditions.
So clearly when you claim it was all down to Jenson being so great in tricky conditions you are at best stretching the truth.
But please dont think that is a criticism of Jenson IMHO he was doing as well as he could today until the hack came along and ruined his race.
Just like Lewis took the lead from the start i will not try to claim he took that lead because of his great changeable weather race skills even if he went on to demonstrate them during the race.
zack1994
Aug 29 2010, 18:37
QUOTE (simplyfast @ Aug 29 2010, 18:32) *
pleas enlighten as to what proof you have.
Perhaps you have spoken to both and know who was bringing their tyres into the correct temperature range and such things.
The bottom line is Lewis won and unfortunately Jenson had a good race ruined by that hack Vettel.
Jensons pace all weekend (even when he had a perfect wing) was below that of both RBR so it tends to favour the fact that he would have lost second place or at best ended up so busy defending it that Lewis would have still gotten away.
Jenson IMHO should have had a podium today but also IMHO he would never have got up to Lewis.

his race pace is always better than qualifying though its just frustrating he got the damage
simplyfast
Aug 29 2010, 18:40
QUOTE (zack1994 @ Aug 29 2010, 19:37) *
his race pace is always better than qualifying though its just frustrating he got the damage

I do agree and who knows perhaps if he had not got that damage what could have been.
but they are all ifs and buts and unfortunately they dont carry points.
P123
Aug 29 2010, 18:41
QUOTE (Jeag @ Aug 29 2010, 19:31) *
I don't know about that, Lewis did look faster all weekend but not by the margin seen in the race today. My point is, we have people here critizing Jenson in this race for his display in changeable conditions agaisnt Kubica and Vettel, they must not have been watching the race. The entire reason Jenson got to 2nd was because he was better than them when the conditions got a bit tricky.


Yep, Button is excellent in greasy conditions. I'm surprised Vettel wasn't instructed to let Button repass- if you watch at the end of lap 1 Vettel only passed him through not taking the chicane, whereas Button rejoined the track and took the final turn in full. At least he got him back through superior pace. Anybody know where or against whom he damaged his front wing?
Jeag
Aug 29 2010, 18:44
QUOTE (simplyfast @ Aug 29 2010, 19:37) *
this is exactly why i posted the fact Jenson got two of those three places at the start.
Jenson gained two because of a better start and only one because of changeable conditions.
So clearly when you claim it was all down to Jenson being so great in tricky conditions you are at best stretching the truth.
But please dont think that is a criticism of Jenson IMHO he was doing as well as he could today until the hack came along and ruined his race.
Just like Lewis took the lead from the start i will not try to claim he took that lead because of his great changeable weather race skills even if he went on to demonstrate them during the race.



Tbh, i was never really claiming Jenson gained all his positions because of the conditions, it just cut down what i had to say to basic form, Jenson got to 2nd place because Kubica was all over the place when it started to rain a little.
Onyemaechi
Aug 29 2010, 18:44
QUOTE (Jeag @ Aug 29 2010, 19:36) *
Why should Jenson have been miles ahead of everyone? The rain at the start lasted all of about 1 lap and then the safety car came out and it was a dry race again, and it remained a dry race for Jenson until he was taken out by Vettel.
So why don't you tell me how Jenson should have been miles ahead of everyone?

Why should Jenson have been miles ahead of everyone? Because he is brilliant in changeable conditions wave.gif roflmao.gif kiss.gif
Lights
Aug 29 2010, 18:46
QUOTE (P123 @ Aug 29 2010, 20:41) *
Yep, Button is excellent in greasy conditions. I'm surprised Vettel wasn't instructed to let Button repass- if you watch at the end of lap 1 Vettel only passed him through not taking the chicane, whereas Button rejoined the track and took the final turn in full. At least he got him back through superior pace. Anybody know where or against whom he damaged his front wing?

Appereantly while re-overtaking Vettel after Vettel cut the chicane.
Lights
Aug 29 2010, 18:54
QUOTE (zack1994 @ Aug 29 2010, 20:34) *
well jenson said he had bad understeer tried to dial it out with more front wing but that made the rear twitchy so the balance was really bad so it wasnt a fair comparison but its a shame because cause i think he could have challenged going by the first lap when he seem to be the best

He seemed alright in the wet conditions but in the dry I doubt he could've kept up with Hamilton regardless. Never mind 'challenge' him. Team wouldn't likely give him the chance either.
Lazy
Aug 29 2010, 19:18
QUOTE (Lights @ Aug 29 2010, 19:54) *
He seemed alright in the wet conditions but in the dry I doubt he could've kept up with Hamilton regardless. Never mind 'challenge' him. Team wouldn't likely give him the chance either.


True , Hamilton was great all weekend and well deserved the win, but without the FW problems Jenson would have been close enough to take advantage when Hamilton had his little excursion.

P.S. some people seem to rate Vettel as a top driver, I'm wondering whether he deserves his super license tbh, more of a Touring Car driver really.
BinaryDad
Aug 29 2010, 19:18
I think that Button drove extremely well today, making up for his quali losses at the start and was hanging on to P2 like a wild cat. That was, until Vettel forgot all about car control and t-bone him during what he laughably calls an "overtake".

I was impressed by him today, and if it hadn't been for the front wing damage who knows how close he would have been to Hamilton.

For me, there really wasn't a lot to choose between them today. I think they both drove dammed well.
mkay
Aug 29 2010, 19:51
QUOTE (Lazy @ Aug 29 2010, 15:18) *
True , Hamilton was great all weekend and well deserved the win, but without the FW problems Jenson would have been close enough to take advantage when Hamilton had his little excursion.

P.S. some people seem to rate Vettel as a top driver, I'm wondering whether he deserves his super license tbh, more of a Touring Car driver really.


Without the little excursion, Jenson wouldn't have had a shot at the win.

We can both play this 'if' game.
Jeag
Aug 29 2010, 19:55
Jenson MUST win at Monza IMO to stay in this championship with a good shout, a podium keeps him in by the skin of his teeth, anything else and i can concede he is realistically out of the fight as i expect Lewis to be tremendous around Singapore even if the McLaren isn't the best car around there he will better Jenson.
Lights
Aug 29 2010, 20:00
QUOTE (Jeag @ Aug 29 2010, 21:55) *
Jenson MUST win at Monza IMO to stay in this championship with a good shout, a podium keeps him in by the skin of his teeth, anything else and i can concede he is realistically out of the fight as i expect Lewis to be tremendous around Singapore even if the McLaren isn't the best car around there he will better Jenson.

Agree. If he really wants to stay in the championship fight, he indeed has to win at Monza, as I really don't expect much from him at Singapore. McLaren won't have a good balance there and it'll hurt him. But in general, for Jenson/Alonso/Vettel to stay in the championship, Webber and Hamilton have to run into some serious trouble. They're both more than a win away from the rest.
GiancarloF1
Aug 29 2010, 20:04
QUOTE (Lights @ Aug 29 2010, 18:39) *
1 lap at Nurburgring '07.


Possibly one of the best laps ever. Shame it ended so badly.
chuffbiscuits
Aug 29 2010, 20:12
I don't see how this race changes the picture between Hamilton and Button as the gap in qually and most of FP was about what we've seen recently i.e. .15s to .35s. Button's race was hampered by a damaged front wing, so he was doing pretty well in 2nd until Vettel tried another of his "The new Schumi? Yeah... rrrright" overtaking moves. I agree that Monza is shit or bust for Button, as he needs to put one over on Hamilton before the flyaways or he's no.2 for sure.
Lazy
Aug 29 2010, 20:25
QUOTE (mkay @ Aug 29 2010, 20:51) *
Without the little excursion, Jenson wouldn't have had a shot at the win.

We can both play this 'if' game.


I never said different, relax, Lewis won, he was the best all weekend, put your defences down smile.gif
Obi Offiah
Aug 29 2010, 20:28
QUOTE (Lazy @ Aug 29 2010, 20:18) *
True , Hamilton was great all weekend and well deserved the win, but without the FW problems Jenson would have been close enough to take advantage when Hamilton had his little excursion.

We have no idea of what would have happen had Jenson not damaged his wing. He may have overtaken Lewis as the rain came down, he my have spun off and DNFed.
karlth
Aug 29 2010, 20:38
QUOTE (Jeag @ Aug 29 2010, 12:55) *
Jenson MUST win at Monza IMO to stay in this championship with a good shout, a podium keeps him in by the skin of his teeth, anything else and i can concede he is realistically out of the fight as i expect Lewis to be tremendous around Singapore even if the McLaren isn't the best car around there he will better Jenson.


Lewis is no slouch at Abu Dhabi, Suzuka and Monza either.
robefc
Aug 29 2010, 22:16
QUOTE (mlsnoopy @ Aug 29 2010, 17:32) *
Today Barcelona evened itself out.


Jenson was terribly unlucky today and I'm happy to accept those two cancel themselves out luckwise.

The situations are slightly different though = being 2 laps away from 2nd place in a dry race is not quite the same as being 2nd with the majority of the race to go and rain affecting the race.

The other difference from a scoreboard point of view is of course that lewis was ahead.
Jeag
Aug 29 2010, 22:37
QUOTE (karlth @ Aug 29 2010, 21:38) *
Lewis is no slouch at Abu Dhabi, Suzuka and Monza either.


No doubt Lewis is good everywhere, but i expect him to be especially good around a street circuit like Singapore, Jenson will be closer on the other tracks imo.
BillBald
Aug 30 2010, 00:42
Actually Jenson was unlucky more than once at Spa.

Look at the lap times for lap 2, before the safety car came out:

Jenson 2:17.589
Lewis 2:18.118
Kubica 2:19.597
Webber 2:19.845
Vettel 2:20.093

Jenson was easily the fastest driver on the wet track, even though I believe that he had already damaged his front wing.
He was very unlucky, firstly when the safety car came out at that point, and then when the rain stopped.
If the rain had continued for longer, he could easily have been looking at a win, even with a damaged FW.



karlth
Aug 30 2010, 00:54
QUOTE (BillBald @ Aug 29 2010, 17:42) *
Actually Jenson was unlucky more than once at Spa.

Look at the lap times for lap 2, before the safety car came out:

Jenson 2:17.589
Lewis 2:18.118
Kubica 2:19.597
Webber 2:19.845
Vettel 2:20.093

Jenson was easily the fastest driver on the wet track, even though I believe that he had already damaged his front wing.
He was very unlucky, firstly when the safety car came out at that point, and then when the rain stopped.
If the rain had continued for longer, he could easily have been looking at a win, even with a damaged FW.


If you analyze Hamilton's driving in quickly changing conditions you'll see that he often is a bit slower on the first lap before streaking ahead on the 2nd lap. He did it to Button early in the race and the same to Webber in the final laps. It seems like he uses the first lap like a warmup lap in qualifying.

Having said that there is no question that Button is very quick driver in the wet and I'm sure his lack of pace in the race was due to the broken front wing.

Yorkie
Aug 30 2010, 00:59
QUOTE (Lights @ Aug 29 2010, 16:24) *
I didn't see any contact there. Will re-watch it anyway.

On Kubica's onboard you can see him being hit by another car, i presume it was Button
robefc
Aug 30 2010, 01:07
QUOTE (karlth @ Aug 30 2010, 01:54) *
If you analyze Hamilton's driving in quickly changing conditions you'll see that he often [/b[b]]is a bit slower on the first lap before streaking ahead on the 2nd lap. He did it to Button early in the race and the same to Webber in the final laps. It seems like he uses the first lap like a warmup lap in qualifying.

Having said that there is no question that Button is very quick driver in the wet and I'm sure his lack of pace in the race was due to the broken front wing.


That might also be related to races where he's leading...
robefc
Aug 30 2010, 01:08
QUOTE (BillBald @ Aug 30 2010, 01:42) *
Actually Jenson was unlucky more than once at Spa.

Look at the lap times for lap 2, before the safety car came out:

Jenson 2:17.589
Lewis 2:18.118
Kubica 2:19.597
Webber 2:19.845
Vettel 2:20.093

Jenson was easily the fastest driver on the wet track, even though I believe that he had already damaged his front wing.
He was very unlucky, firstly when the safety car came out at that point, and then when the rain stopped.
If the rain had continued for longer, he could easily have been looking at a win, even with a damaged FW.


He was quickest on one lap...
Yorkie
Aug 30 2010, 01:16
QUOTE (Lights @ Aug 29 2010, 16:51) *
I remember Kubica a few years back at Spa with visibly more damage to his front wing and he still matched Heideld IIRC. That's why I wasnt that impressed by Button's pace. But then I might be judging too quickly.

I also remember Lewis driving with a damaged front wing on more than one occasion, it causes bad understeer but he always managed to retain good pace

QUOTE (mlsnoopy @ Aug 29 2010, 17:32) *
Today Barcelona evened itself out.

What about Hungary?
BillBald
Aug 30 2010, 01:27
QUOTE (robefc @ Aug 30 2010, 02:08) *
He was quickest on one lap...


... a lap in which he had to overtake Massa, Vettel and Kubica, who had got ahead of him by cutting the chicane at the end of lap one.
robefc
Aug 30 2010, 01:40
QUOTE (BillBald @ Aug 30 2010, 02:27) *
... a lap in which he had to overtake Massa, Vettel and Kubica, who had got ahead of him by cutting the chicane at the end of lap one.


Oh in that case it's clear he'd have definitely won if it stayed wet....

The point is it's one lap, extrapolating from that is beyond pointless.

And if you want to talk about the lap itself I imagine hamilton was taking it pretty gingerly having just gone straight on at the bus stop and being able to because he was in the lead, as you mention button was racing for position.
Grenada
Aug 30 2010, 05:27
QUOTE (Yorkie @ Aug 30 2010, 02:16) *
I also remember Lewis driving with a damaged front wing on more than one occasion, it causes bad understeer but he always managed to retain good pace


What about Hungary?



Monaco? It's evens for bad luck I think.
Onyemaechi
Aug 30 2010, 06:57
QUOTE (Jeag @ Aug 29 2010, 20:55) *
Jenson MUST win at Monza IMO to stay in this championship with a good shout, a podium keeps him in by the skin of his teeth, anything else and i can concede he is realistically out of the fight as i expect Lewis to be tremendous around Singapore even if the McLaren isn't the best car around there he will better Jenson.


I`ll mark your words and hold you to it when the time comes. But in addition to that: Jenson MUST qualify the first 1-2 rows in Monza. I don`t think that`s a tall order for Jenson (keeping in mind Monza is not a Red Bull Circuit, keeping in mind he should be able to beating Massa and Kubica in qualifying, and also keeping in mind that even an ill disposed Jenson should be able to out-qualify the strong Force India of Adrian at Monza rolleyes.gif )
Lights
Aug 30 2010, 07:04
QUOTE (Yorkie @ Aug 30 2010, 02:59) *
On Kubica's onboard you can see him being hit by another car, i presume it was Button

Yeah, prolly right. I didn't think they touched from the circuit camera's, but here it did look like they made contact.
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